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ramsaydesigns
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Mountains
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 07-08-2002 03:55

A year ago I came upon the Church of Virus, a group of "futurists," but the title is far to broad to explain who and what is the Church of Virus. The people who are a members are extremely intelligent. They debate on common and "far out" topics all the time. It may be a bit too "deep" for most of you, but if you're interested follow the links below:

Church of Virus - Core Site
http://www.churchofvirus.com

Church of Virus - Forums
http://www.churchofvirus.com/bbs/

They have a mailing list, forums, etc. They are very welcoming to everyone of all calibers. I believe one of the founders, "Hermit," is a virologist (or geneticist). I urge you all to check them out whether you're a believer in a higher entity or a self-proclaimed atheist.

Below are some more links to more "futurist"-type places:

Extropy Institute - International Transhumanist Solutions
http://www.extropy.org/

#Immortals - BJKlein.com
http://www.bjklein.com/

On IRC:
irc.lucifer.com
#virus
#immortal
#extropy


The Church of Virus is much smaller than the others, but all have very similar goals. The Extropy Institute is the largest transhumanist groups in North America.

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 07-08-2002 07:57

Thanks for the links...I'll be checking them out...

ramsaydesigns
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Mountains
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 07-09-2002 09:15

Well?

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 07-09-2002 14:31

Well what? I said, I'm checking them out...what did you expect to hear?

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 07-09-2002 15:25

If by "too deep" you mean 'too self indulgent, cheesy and phony' then by all means, you are correct.



NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

posted posted 07-09-2002 18:05

I passed the link to a friend who replied:

"Are these guys serious?

I suppose as an intellectual exercise it has some value.

I see its best value though, as putting the wind up the terminally
religious."




ramsaydesigns
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Mountains
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 07-09-2002 22:51

Yes. Most of them are serious, but that especially serious group are the ones with Ph.D.s in Genetics, Evolutionary Psychology, Epistemiology, etc.
Those serious folk are the good people of the place. The rest are cynical, ignorant, and savage. I don't care for the rest of them. Most of the latter are also anti-government, and anti-American. I'm fighting for the American side over there, but I'm the only one.

If any of you start an "America sucks" thread here I'll shove it down your throat. It's really hard to win debates against ignorant cynics with savage ad-hominem minds.

ramsaydesigns
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Mountains
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 07-09-2002 23:49

Of course, if you're of any religion, you'll see it all as a bad place.

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 07-10-2002 03:43

Why the hostility, ramsay? Let someone start an America sucks thread first, and then slam them if necessary. Why bother projecting?

I also found this bit of your first post quite amusing: "It may be too "deep" for most of you..."

I've got to go with DL on this. I know you're going to immediately label me as an "ignorant cynics with a savage ad-hominem mind," but that doesn't really bother me, to be honest with you. I've seen many of your type: you believe that you are the enlightened ones, and everyone else is just wallowing in their ignorance. If that's what it takes to make you feel good, then go for it.

I do have one question, though. If this thing is supposed to be an anti-religion (so to speak), why bother with all the trappings of traditional religions ("sins," "virtues," "saints," etc.)? If you ask me, that's what makes it so "self indulgent, cheesy and phony," to borrow DL's words. That and the overblown language, of course.

Sorry. I did check it out, but I am apparently one of the ignorant masses. You'll pray to Saint Charles for me, though, won't you?




Cell 270

ramsaydesigns
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Mountains
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 07-10-2002 04:49

Actually I dropped from the CoV when I posted that. (Its hostility was directed at the CoV!) It was fun and mature when Hermit, the Ph.D. in Epistemology, was there. He's a great teacher and he understands me.

May 6, 2002

[13:41] <Daemonikan> Hermit, I was thinking that we should get our own domain. Potential Virions may associate the Church of Virus with Lucifer or Satanic Worship.
[13:41] [1:41pm] <Hermit> LOL
[13:41] [1:41pm] <Hermit> We have our own domain
[13:41] <Daemonikan> Which is?
[13:41] [1:41pm] <Hermit> ChurchofVirus.com
[13:41] <Daemonikan> oh..
[13:42] <Daemonikan> I didn't realize that we did because I found CoV through lucifer.com.
[13:42] [1:42pm] <Hermit> Anything which works with lucifer also works with that
[13:42] [1:42pm] <Hermit> But Lucifer is a good idea
[13:42] [1:42pm] <Hermit> It keeps the xians away


[13:44] <Daemonikan> Hermit, the only thing I worry about is if we enter the realm of the physical world we might subject ourselves to an untimely death. Since we are not suicidal and are merely revolutionaries there's no way we could stand up to a line of suicide bombers and religious fanatics.
[13:44] [1:44pm] <Hermit> And I am fond of life too
[13:45] [1:45pm] <Hermit> So we keep the xians away from lucifer
[13:45] <Daemonikan> It seems to me that our ultimate weapon is that of communication. For that is how we bring about infection.
[13:45] [1:45pm] * Hermit agrees
[13:46] <Daemonikan> But I do think that we should spread from our virtual home to new hosts in various cities.
[13:46] [1:46pm] <Hermit> Again I agree
[13:46] [1:46pm] <Hermit> Basically the CoV seeks to teach people to be rational.
[13:46] [1:46pm] <Hermit> It is not a proslytizing organization
[13:47] [1:47pm] <Hermit> It "Feeds the Hungry"

[13:47] [1:47pm] <Hermit> The party will not be atheist.
[13:47] [1:47pm] <Hermit> Just rational (which implies atheist)
[13:47] [1:47pm] <Hermit> But is being crafted for highly viral appeal
[13:48] [1:48pm] <Hermit> To everyone
[13:48] [1:48pm] <Hermit> Including a large number of semi-rationals
[13:48] [1:48pm] <Hermit> The CoV will spread the word of the party :-)

[13:49] [1:49pm] <Hermit> The "party" is the political expression of Viral ideals
[13:50] <Daemonikan> But is there a reason for everything? Or are we Chaotic in our ideas?
[13:50] [1:50pm] <Hermit> The IPU springs to mind
[13:50] [1:50pm] <Hermit> All ideas spring from noise, which may be neurologically filtered into a chaotic condiotion.

After that we began to DISCUSS (not DEBATE as it is now) what Chaos is and how it affects us positively and negatively.

He told me at another time that the reason for the "trappings" was basically to thumb our noses at modern day religion.

quote:
It's really hard to win debates against ignorant cynics with savage ad-hominem minds.


I used that sentence in the wrong paragraph. Sorry for the confusion. I was calling the people at the CoV, Extropy, and #Immortal groups that name.

And because I noted you misunderstood I'll accept your apology for misunderstanding. Have a good night!



[This message has been edited by ramsaydesigns (edited 07-10-2002).]

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 07-10-2002 07:34

You're too kind, ramsay.

Your post makes more sense with that explanation. As for Hermit's explanation for the trappings of religion, that's kind of what I figured, but I was hoping it was not the case. To be honest with you, I find that to be a little immature--doesn't the "church" profess to be above all that? Maybe it's just a personal thing; I find mocking other people's beliefs and ideas to be a very immature act. This is why the truly enlightened people are cool, because they don't have the attitude.

You have a good night too. Night doesn't come along for me for a while yet...

ramsaydesigns
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Mountains
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 07-10-2002 08:03

Eh, well immaturity is not a sin. It's human nature, but it's also not a virtue. It's just one of those funky little quirks that all of us have to some degree. As an example, my incredibly successful and genius-type father is still a child. And he's 54! (Or 53.. 52.. somewhere around there!)

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 07-10-2002 18:04

Yes, but it's hard to place yourself above the groups that you mimic....

It is my opinion that anyone of any sort of 'enlightened' status would have no need to mimic the very groups he 'thumbs his nose at'.

~shrug~

deep it is not...




njuice42
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Gig Harbor, WA
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 07-10-2002 22:54

I just pretty much gave up on the site the minute I saw the Darwin fish...

njuice42 Cell # 551
icq 957255

ramsaydesigns
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Mountains
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 07-10-2002 23:09

The Church of Virus's doctrine is a lot more deep and complex than the cover of the site looks. Not only was the original organization an organization that promotes rational thinking but it also distributed and practiced advanced knowledge. You'll have your highly-negative opinions about the CoV if you're religious in any way (that includes Christianity) because religion is irrational.

The Church of Virus was meant to scientifically analyze all properties of life (e.g. government, world issues, etc.) using what we now call the Scientific Method. In any college, this type of thinking is the kind of thinking that philosophers and other intelligent people admire. (I just learned that today in Political Science!) Hermit developed a plan for government reform and what the reform would change. I'm guessing the detailed plan that he never released was incredibly huge because it covered every aspect of government. What is now provided is the extended summary which is also a good read and has some very rational (and important) points (e.g. replacing the IRS, etc.).

I have to go now. More on this later.

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 07-11-2002 08:53

Personally, this is covered under 'General Semantics' which is, IMHO, much, much better than the 'Church of Virus'...also a way of thinking that is 'based' on the 'scientific method'...but it is not 'condensending' to others...and doesn't even support such a view...

IMHO, CoV is really being 'snobbish' in its approach...irregardless of what it is based on...if one is to set an example, one must also live it...'Walk it like you talk it'...

Otherwise...one is just being hypocritical...and can't be taken seriously...the very thing they propose to be against at least understands that...

ramsaydesigns
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Mountains
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 07-11-2002 09:51

You didn't know the original CoV otherwise you wouldn't make such assumptions about what they were. I agree that they are "snobbish" NOW. But just a year ago they were very friendly. Your opinion is void because of your limited knowledge about the CoV. You are judging by looks! If Hermit was online again, he could prove to you that the way the web site is setup is the right way. In other words, he could convince you very easily.

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 07-11-2002 13:04

ho hum.

I'm not religous at all, for starteres.

Nor am I 'judging by looks'.

I think we're all familiar with the scientific method (which is what we've called it for quite some time..... ) and think it's no secret that the 'church of virus' did not come with this 'kind of thinking that philosophers and other intelligent people admire', nor did they name it as such.

You are making a great many assumptions about the people that you are talking to here, and you are also showing your clear tendency to be a pompous ass - which only reinforces my opinion of this 'church' you for some deluded reason praise so highly.

I doubt this 'hermit' would b very convincing to anyone who has much in the way of independent thought; that of course is just an opinion...

The whole 'mock the group you mimic' deal is rather old, rather unoriginal, and rather unintelligent - regardless of the precepts of the beliefs.



WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 07-11-2002 13:45

Well, ramseydesign, you are starting to annoy me. And that is saying something, because it doesn't happen all that often. This, in particular, is very annoying

quote:
Your opinion is void because of your limited knowledge about the CoV. You are judging by looks! If Hermit was online again, he could prove to you that the way the web site is setup is the right way. In other words, he could convince you very easily.



Now, why is it annoying? Well, for starters, 'my opinion is void...', well, you asked for it...so I gave it...second, you follow up this mistake with a couple of other assumptions...yes, I looked at the site, and at the contents...and as to whether or not 'he' could prove something to me is irrelevant...has nothing to do with the opinion that I came away with...and assuming that 'he' could convince me...and very easily...well, keep your Idols to yourself, ok? Maybe he is intelligent and all that...that's all good and fine. But you are projecting here...your personal findings onto others (read - me)...and that's wrong. Plain and simple. Because, you see, you don't know me, don't know practically anything about me, but still make assumptions.

And slowly I'm getting the idea (read - opinion) that I'm wasting my breath here...you seem to have already made up your mind, and won't accept anything to the contrary. In other words, you didn't really ask for an opinion, you asked for someone to agree with you...and that is a mighty big difference...why didn't you just come out and say that at the beginning? 'Hey, check this out...I find it interesting...'

NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

posted posted 07-11-2002 15:42

Could it be that apok's gone to the darkside? <lol>

ramsaydesigns
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Mountains
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 07-11-2002 18:03

WebShaman I apologize if you confused my tone with something else. I really didn't mean to make my post sound like that but that's just how I talk. Everything is a competition to me and I'm so used to debating with the people from transhumanist organizations that my judgement has probably been affected. On the otherhand, let's not bicker about an organization that I hate but used to love.

We all make assumptions but it is when we found out we made the wrong assumptions that we feel vulnerable, realize that we ARE human and that we make mistakes.

I'm sorry, WebShaman. I don't want any trouble. I've been kicked out of enough forums as it is. By the way, check out www.creativepublic.com ... I find it interesting!



[This message has been edited by ramsaydesigns (edited 07-11-2002).]

Trigger
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 07-11-2002 18:59

i hate to pollute a thread of such "high intelligence"
but looks to me your not as open minded as you like ot make out ramsaydesigns
i just read over the thread and all's i see is Hermit this hermit that
surley you cant belief in eerything hermit belifes in can you?
how about you try and argue the debate your self
with out coming out with lines like

if hermit was online he would tell you......
there very tiresome and if we wanted to bebate with hermit we would at the COV

ramsaydesigns
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Mountains
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 07-11-2002 20:56

Once he comes online, if ever, I'll ask him to come over here to chat. And Trigger... there's nothing wrong in having an idol. It's a little less than the way Elvis fans dedicated their lives to Elvis. For example, if one of you were an extremely talented artist I'd ask that person to debate on the topic if it were art. If one of you were an extremely intelligent scientist I'd ask that person to debate on the topic if it were science. If one of you were a professional car thief... or an assassin... well, you get the picture, right? It's about expertise in an area. This is what the people at the transhumanist organizations I mentioned can't understand anymore. Their ideologies have been diluted with too much irrational thinking and they've strayed far from the path they intended to walk.

I did ask for an opinion, but I would like to not have heard ad hominem-type opinions where you attack the organization. I've voluntarily subjected myself to ad hominem-type "debates" before and I would not like to see one everywhere I go. This is my position: I don't want war. I want friendliness.

And Trigger... try to stay out of others' conflicts. Even though we're posting publicly, it's not sensible to have the attitude of, "ramsaydesigns you're a fucking idiot." Because that's what your post is implying.

InSiDeR
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Oblivion
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted posted 07-11-2002 21:03

Scientologists?

[This message has been edited by InSiDeR (edited 07-11-2002).]

ramsaydesigns
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Mountains
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 07-11-2002 21:06

Hehe

Like I said, I don't want to talk about the CoV any longer. I want to stay as far from the subject as I can. And please... no more trollish postings... unless you're trying to provoke me, which is pretty easy to do.



[This message has been edited by ramsaydesigns (edited 07-11-2002).]

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 07-11-2002 23:14

Interesting.

You started the topic, and now are asking people not to address the topic?

Well, ok. I'll close this down so we can be sure it won't be discussed

In the future, if you wish to avoid arguments and wish to avoid such 'irrational' thinking, try not posting irrational topics and then treating the topic in irrational manners.

"practice what you preach" as they say...

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