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RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 09-01-2002 03:15

This is a hypothetical question .. a philosophy of sorts of opinions and how people would handle the situation differently .. so here's the situation .. what would you do!?

Your 24 yrs of age your married .. no children and your starting your career .. as is your wife .. a yr has gone by and your wife springs on you .. she thinks she is gay .. and that she is not attracted to you sexually anymore but she still loves you and adores you and can't live without? yet .. she has had an affair with a women that you thought was just a friend for the past 4 months

now .. what would you do if you were in this situation? and this can be answered by both men and women .. ie .. if you were the wife what would you do?(women only answer that side of the coin)

[edit: and please don't give one line answers like "I would leave her" .. or .. "I would cheat on her and join in from time to time" seriously think about how it would change the way you think and precieve your wife]


.::. cEll .::. 513

[This message has been edited by RammStein (edited 09-01-2002).]

brucew
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: North Coast of America
Insane since: Dec 2001

posted posted 09-01-2002 05:32

I see it all the time--people who, for any of a dozen reasons, are unable to accept that they're gay. They think getting married will somehow magically "fix" them and they'll live happily ever after.

It just ain't so.

What happens is they discover it can't be fixed. They experiment and find themselves in a situation like the hypothetical one you describe. About half of the time they don't want a divorce because they want to continue to "pass" as straight in society, or they want children, or there's something else that offers them stability in a very confusing time ,or they feel that separating will hurt the spouse in some way that staying together won't.

Hypothetically of course, it's difficult for the spouse to discover that they've married a lie. Who is the real person? The one you married or the one who's just come out? Naturally you still love the person you married and probably felt you'd do anything for them--after all, it's in the vows. Now the test has come. Does that committment extend to radically changing the rules of play? How much of yourself are you willing to set aside for the person you love? Is it just a phase? Should you wait them out?

My advice, hypothetically, is to end the marriage while you can still do so somewhat amicably. Then you can both move on.

The partner who's come out needs this if they are ever to form any sort of realtionship with anyone. They haven't been honest with themselves, and by extension, to either their spouse or to the new love interest. (BTW, I'm not insinuating malicious or deliberate deceit. Self-deception is seldom either.) Unless they're free to move on, they'll not learn how to be honest with themselves and then, how to be honest with a partner. Relationships need honesty as much as they need love and respect. It's a three-legged stool. It can't stand on just two.

The remaining partner needs to understand that if they pursue the marriage, that then they too are basing the relationship on self-deception.

It's a textbook case of "if you love them, let them go". Get all of it out of the way while you're still relatively healthy and before resentments build that may poison future relationships.

There's no reason why you can't "remain friends" after the divorce. Sometimes that happens. But it can't happen within the bounds of marriage.


"the most incredible feats are often accomplished by
those who have had the most incredible challenges"

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 09-01-2002 06:13

I've got to agree with bruce on this. Honesty is very important, and if I discovered that the woman I married was not only dishonest with me, but also dishonest with herself, I would definitely end the marriage. Yes, I would still love her, but that's one marriage that's most likely not going to work out.

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 09-01-2002 08:10

*If* I was feeling forgiving, I would see what could be done about building the marriage back up. Marriage is based on two people *agreeing* to love one another and *making* it work. I simply don't see where "not being sexually attracted anymore" negates that whole "til death do us part" bit.

That was based more on what I see *should* be done.

But when I was 24, I can honestly say, I would have called it off. I would have been well within my rights because adultery is clearly grounds for divorce. Especially just after one year because I would seriously wonder whether the deception had been there from the beginning. Trust comes very difficult for many and I can't imagine seeing myself recovering from such a monumental betrayal. It would take years before I could get over such a thing.

. . : slicePuzzle

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 09-01-2002 08:38
quote:
I simply don't see where "not being sexually attracted anymore" negates that whole "til death do us part" bit.



Well, I must say that I have to agree with you there, but that's not the real issue here. The real issue is that your wife of one year has been living a lie, both to herself, to you, and to the God before whom she swore "'til death do us part." Also, think of what this would do if and when you had children. How would they deal with this?

No, love is not based on sexual attraction, but it is based on mutual trust, and there can only be complete trust between two people who are honest with each other. It could be argued that no two people are ever fully honest with each other (in fact, I would tend to think this is true), but the situation we're talking about here is a tad different.

genis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Dallas, TX
Insane since: Aug 2002

posted posted 09-01-2002 13:37

I find love (true wuv) a thing most difficult to find, and so to have found someone who is truly in love with you without the hinderance of sexuality as the driving force is indeed an amazing thing to have.
That is if it is indeed true in the eyes of the wife who says this.

Now that religion is brought up, which it should, that is one thing to consider.
I see marriage as a function of religion and, unfortunately, the state.
I don't know who decided to bring the state into that equation but the outcome is sucky.
Now depending on how religious and the religion of this couple, divorce is most likely a must.
"til death do we part" sure, but I'm sure most religions don't acknowledge adultery on a regular basis.
Which would be the norm I'm sure with someone who is gay, and has already cheated.
Also the religions which impart that vow "til death do we part" are mostly not tolerant of gay sex, and all are definitely not tolerant of gay-straight intermarriage.
And then thanks to the state getting involved in that whole marriage contract thing, the divorce could get messy in monetary terms.

All in all, if they want to stay together and be happy not having sex with each other, kudos to them.
I myself could live without sex, of course if she's like Cameron Diaz hot or something, I doubt I could hold myself back, and would have to move as far away as possible.
But if the sex thing is a must, they could always join with that swinging scene, bound to be some bi's in there for the lady.

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 09-01-2002 14:23

RammStein: That is a tricky one and I think brucew has summed things up very nicely (at least from my viewpoint).

It is really time to put one's (hypothetical) cards on the table - there are numerous ways that things could go. It can't ever be the same but you could create some kind of open relationship where you are free to see other people and it could work if you if everyone were honest and open but it would be more likely to fail rather than prosper (different people would have different ideas and expectations about what they want from the relationship).

I think what I'd do is just draw a line under the whole thing and walk away while you are still friends because thats probably the best outcome from this situation that you can hope for. I'd wish her well in her new life and tell her you will always be there for her and then go out and find the woman I was supposed to be with all along.

I think the important thing would be to make sure the break was as soon and as clean (no going back for old times sake) as possible - the longer things are drawn out in a relationship that is doomed to fail the nastier and messier the final split becomes.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-01-2002 22:30

Unfortunately, I lost all that I posted before because of that ****ing time-out with my home connection...I'll be posting more tommorrow from work. Scheiss internet verbindung...ich hasse Telecom....

Sorry for the rant, folks...but that really pissed me off...I lost a ton of text....(the rest has been suspended by WebShaman, due to the age of some viewers).

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 09-02-2002 01:11

Knowing WS, that was probably a lot of text . That sucks .

genis: as for bringing up religion, I'm going to assume you mean my reference to God. I brought up God, but I didn't bring up religion. Then again, you're right about marriage being a religious institution, which means religion was in this from the beginning.... not sure what my point is here, but when I find it I'll let you know.

RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 09-02-2002 02:19

I'll wait for WebShamans response before I add my POV of the situation .. but so far I'm intrigued by all of your answers


.::. cEll .::. 513

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-02-2002 09:52

Ok, I've had a similar experience, actually, though I wasn't married to the woman, and she was bi-sexual. I could accept that, and had no real problem with it. It was the breaches of trust and the double standard that doomed that relationship. First of all, she had affairs, and didn't tell me about them...I consider that cheating...and second, though she felt that she was 'allowed' to have sexual relations with other women during our relationship, I was not...

So, it was actually the trust (well, lack thereof, actually) that killed the relationship...

But in the example we have been given, there is another factor...and since both Bugs and Master Suho have mentioned and explained the trust thing, I'll concentrate on the actual needs in the relationship...

This other factor is the sexual one...and is really the problem...the affair aside, both went into the partnership as consenting sexual partners to one another. However, underway, one has changed (the woman)...but the other has not (the man). Since a healthy relationship is build on mutual trust, the fulfillment of mutual needs and communication, we now have the basis for an unhealthy relationship...because the mutual needs can no longer be fulfilled...for one in the partnership (the man). Now, just what is he supposed to do? Remain abstinent? Masterbate himself into the grave? Though maybe the actual feelings of love are still there, one cannot actually 'do it'...a form of psychic torture for the man...esp. if he loves her...one wants something so near...but can't have it...but others can...pure fustration, that will eventually lead to...negative feelings...

On the other hand...the man could undergo a sex change operation...I think that would settle the problem with the homo/hetro thing...but that is really asking a lot...though possible, I think that is a pretty extreme solution...

But back to the main point...this is a change in the original contract...i.e. the foundation of the relationship was built on a different understanding...and that has now changed. Combined with the betrayal of trust (so fragile, trust), I see no real chance for the relationship to survive...

Both would probably be much more happy in seperate relationships more attuned to their individual needs...

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 09-02-2002).]

Lala
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Montreal, Canada
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 09-03-2002 20:15
quote:
your wife springs on you .. she thinks she is gay .. and that she is not attracted to you sexually anymore but she still loves you and adores you and can't live without



I think she is not quiet sure if she wants to be a 'lesbian' , she said she thinks she is, hmmm to me she wants to keep you with her until she figures out what to do or until she feels confortable enough to get out of the closet, anyways I think she is using you because she is scared, I dont think you should work on your marriage...... just move on.

100 hugs
Lala

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-04-2002 11:23

Lala brings up a good point...though I think the question was meant to be more 'absolute'...in case that it wasn't, then I believe that Lala hit the problem square on...fear, and the consequences thereof (or inability to face it).

Kudos, Lala, for noticing that...

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 09-04-2002 13:10

There was a movie with Ben Affleck and the girl who played Adam Sandler's love interest in "Big Daddy" (I think it was... sorry, I'm just horrible with this stuff). I keep thinking of that movie, but I can't remember what it's called...

beaner
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: LA, CA, USA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 09-04-2002 19:13

Chasing Amy

But the woman was already gay and she falls in love with a man and the man can't forget her past (not because she was gay, just because she was sexually experimental) so they have to break up. I wouldn't watch this movie to find out what to do, it's kinda like The Way We Were, if two people arne't meant to be together, then they won't be together. Or something like that.

GrythusDraconis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: The Astral Plane
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 09-04-2002 21:52

I would have to leave her. Not only that but I don't think I could remain her friend either. I am steadfastly monogomous and wouldn't see her actions as anything but the betrayal it is. The other hypothetical question that sort of parallels this one is 'Would you leave your wife if she cheated on you with a woman instead of a man?' YES! It doesn't matter who or what she cheated on you with. She cheated on you, end of story.

If she had told me the situation before hand and told me what she wanted to do... I would still have to leave her but at least she's been honest. Perhaps then I could remain firends with her. Honesty after the fact is not honesty. It is a confession and justification for actions that have been done knowing that they are wrong. Honor, Honesty, Trust... breaking any of those beliefs with me renders a relationship null.

GrythusDraconis
"Be careful not to anger the Great Dragon for you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup" T-Shirt Somewhere

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 09-05-2002 04:22

Thank you, beaner. I know the situation in the movie is different from what we have here, but I was just thinking of it and I couldn't remember the title.

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 09-06-2002 19:10

I think we're very eager to hear why you asked the question, RammStein.

. . : slicePuzzle

RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 09-09-2002 16:51

having read all of your thoughts and opinions .. [sighing] .. I'm sure some of you have safely assumed when someone asks a question like this .. it's most likely the person asking is in the situation him or herself

well .. to be honest with you all because I'm an honest person .. even though I barely know any of you personally and even barely introduced myself to most of you (Grumble, Michael, Emp, vene, Slime, Bug, krets, and a few others)

I am this person in this situation .. I'm not going to give you the details .. nor does it matter .. I have though listened to your posts .. I much as it angers and hurts me to read .. I know what most of you say is true .. that is the "right and healthy" thing to do .. but all I have to say to most of your comments is .. you have to be in the situation to really understand what you would do .. what your mind is thinking what you truely know about your wife or said to be wife .. I love this place and I do appreciate all your opinions .. but for me G-d has a master plan for me .. and as much as I have BEGGED myself to leave .. my feet have not followed by mind .. they have followed my heart .. I'm in pain right now .. matter of fact I've been in pain for over 7 months now .. and I'm not looking for a shoulder to cry on nor am I looking for support .. I find support only through other peoples opinions and that is what I got and that's what I expected .. I thought I'd never find myself in this situation .. and quite frankly I'm ready to wake up from this dream .. but I know this isn't a dream but my life

you realize .. even though you take all the steps correctly and cross all your 't's and dot your 'i's you still end up getting fucked over or pushed around .. taken advantaged of and you say to yourself .. or that is I did .. "why do you let this happen to you" .. my only true answer to that is .. "my name is Donovann Rodgers .. I am a man who believes in helping others even if I gain nothing from it .. even if I find a knife in my back .. even if I lying on the ground soaking in my own blood .. I still get up .. I still recover and move forward .. I am a Warrior .. I am Donovann and I am who I am because it's what makes me happy"

I think I've rambled on long enough and I'm sure I've shared alittle to much about myself because I'm mostly an inner person even though I tend to be a crowd gatherer .. I love you guys and thanks for listening

I'll be taking a few days off away from the computer to clear my head and think what I need to do for myself and where I'm going with my marriage

be well

RammStein


.::. cEll .::. 513

[This message has been edited by RammStein (edited 09-09-2002).]

GrythusDraconis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: The Astral Plane
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 09-09-2002 17:12

You're a good man, Ramm. Know that you are liked and respected here by myself and many others, I'm sure.


GrythusDraconis
"Be careful not to anger the Great Dragon for you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup" T-Shirt Somewhere

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 09-09-2002 19:02

So you're not looking for any support, eh? Well screw that and have some any way! One of the things you can rely on us for is to tell things the way we see them and I hope our responses have helped you in some small way. I'm sure all our prayers and well wishes are with you and will be all the way through this.

RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 09-09-2002 21:21

thanks Bug and GrythusDraconis

I realized I can't get away from the computer or net for that matter .. it's my lifestyle .. and line of work .. and it does help me forget what I'm going through .. I spit out a layout today in 3 hrs .. a temp layout for the customer to give the thumbs up or down on but still 3 hrs is fast for me

anyway .. things will be worked out for me and my wife .. I think it's just a matter of what direction we will take together or not

thanks for listening

and to let you guys know .. yeah .. it's true she has been selfish and betraying me .. I have told her and yesterday was the last straw I caught her in another lie .. so I left the house and I'm not returning for atleast this whole week .. given her and me time to think about what we or individually what we are going to do .. [soft sigh]

I have to be very strong .. and lay down the law on her ass .. and I did last night telling her how much of an ugly person she is and how selfish and how she has betray my trust, love, and affection towards her .. 4 yrs guys .. 4 yrs of my life given to her .. I just can't give up .. it's not in my nature .. especially when I know that she is just lost seeking what only makes and satisfies her at a particular moment .. she really has some mental problems and we will be going to counseling .. hope that works

anyway .. another chapter of my life unfolds!


.::. cEll .::. 513

Kartis Shone
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Malmö, Sweden
Insane since: Mar 2002

posted posted 09-09-2002 21:23

RammStein, no matter what your decision will be, I wish you all luck and love in your life. You very much seem to be a man that is worth that.

It seems only men have replied and told their opinions. All replies are very sane and right. I am happy to see no one started to joke about a question as serious as this one. I guess I am the first female to give some words on the way. All said above I don't need to repeat. I will just try to put the issue in a little different light. Perhaps.

I have lived quite a while, and have had a few relationships on my way. Trust and Honesty is just as important for a relationship as Love is. Not until my current relationship, 3 years old, I have experienced total trust and honesty. Honesty hurts. It hurts bad, but if there is just as much love and trust as there is honesty, the love seems to be only growing. My husband and I have been through hard times. None of us have ever cheated and none of us would ever need to do so. Both of us has finally found the right person to live with. It took almost half a life to find eachother, and we had to search around the whole world. My husband moved without blinking from sunny California to cold Sweden just to make our relationship reality. It was a saga, a ferry tale. We were happy as children to finally have met. Our love was invincible!
Reality kicked in after about a year living together, and as in all relationships we started to have problems. However our love for eachother hasn't faded. We are most determined that we will win this battle too. And we are doing very good so far.

Now about the cheating issue. All you guys in here who have answered RammStein's topic are so right about that cheating is not something that you do in a relationship. Trust would be very difficult to win back after such a thing. This is of course if it happened to you - if your woman was cheating. Have you thought about how many women are cheating their husbands compared to how many men are cheating their wifes? In most parts of the world it is almost "legal" for the husband to cheat. He can even go to prostitutes or striptease clubs without being worried about his wife getting a divorce. If she cheated, she is out. These kind of men seem to make sure that the cheating wife will be so punished that she will have a hard time getting on with her future life. He will see to that he gets the house, the bank account, and so on just to make it hard for her. Whether he cheated or not makes no difference. She was HIS woman who was supposed to be there for him no matter what. Too many women accept their cheating husband. No men accept a cheating wife. I don't accept any of them.

Do I sound "woman liberationish"? I am not. I just heard too many stories and experienced too many things and relationships in my life to not have this point of view. RammStein, you don't seem to be this revenge thinking kind of guy. You truly love your wife. That is big. However I am sad to say, of course without not knowing any of you two, she is insecure of her love to you. She says she loves you and even adores you. But still she thinks she is gay. Women can "love" someone and live with someone without feeling any attraction to this person. I think it is harder for men to do this. When I was in my twenties I lived with a man I wasn't attracted to the least. He was a good friend, a good companion in life. We had so much fun. But I hated the love making part. I tried to be honest about it, and wanted to break up. He refused, but suffered hard from my honesty since he loved me so much. I kind of loved him too and couldn't stand to see his pain and suffer. I stayed way too long just from being soft-hearted with his pain. When I finally managed to break up it was still painful for him, but he survived and found the love of his life about a year later. He is now happily married and has children. I can still miss him sometimes though, just because he was such a good man. But I didn't LOVE him.

Your wife has been cheating on you. Cheating is always a sign of either not enough true love for the spouse or not being emotionally grown up. It takes time to grow upp emotionally. Some people never do, and keep on hurting other people's hearts all their life. Not many are emotionally grown up in their twenties. I sure wasn't! Still people marry and put children to this world without really knowing their wife/husband of even themselves.

What I want to say is... without sounding too harsh... If your wife is not attracted to you she doesn't love you the way you love her. Period. If she doesn't have any attraction for you she probably won't receive that attraction in the nearest ten years either. If she on top of that thinks she is gay, then she will never feel any attraction for you or any other guy. She will stay gay no matter what you do. And you will become more and more unhappy - both of you.

If you want to stay in a loveless marriage it is up to you. My advice is to talk it through with her a few billion times, to really find out who she is, and who you are in your relationship. She will probably beg you to stay if you want to leave her. Women are that way. It is safe for her to be with a nice guy. It looks neat to have a husband in his best years, in his career. Maybe her family doesn't know of her sexuality, and it would be a horrible thing for her to tell the family she is gay. Maybe a disaster even. It is safer to stay with you, hiding all her lies behind a nice surface. One day she will have to tell people, and in spite of people's reactions she will feel proud of what she is. Both you and her will become a shadow of your former selves if you stay in a marriage full of lies. That is if she really IS gay and if she really DOES NOT love you the same way as you do her.

Go see a relationship councelor as soon as possible. That is the best way to find out what you really want in your relationship. A councelor gives you tools to sort out your thoughts and behaviour. Give it a try, but don't stay with her just because you are married, if you know you will stay unhappy. If there is no solution, get a divorce!

RammStein, there is no such pain as love. Just remember real love is there for you somewhere in the world. Every relationship takes a lot of work to make it function. I really feel for you, man. I will pray for you and send all love, light and laughter to you and your wife.

Take care!

Kasta sten i glashus? Jag?

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-10-2002 14:26

Ohboy...kinda thought that it might be a 'real' situation...damn. Though it really isn't any comfort at all, I'll relate my last marriage...in the hope that maybe, somehow, it could help someone else avoid what I went through. As I said, I was married before. For 4 years...4 years of pure hell. I met her here in Germany, I was in the Air Force at the time. I took her with me to America, and got married there. Everything was fine for the first 6 months...until reality came crashing through. Her 'idea' of America was...wrong. Just plain wrong. I won't go into all the details (they are still painful, after all these years...). She had a miscarriage...and that was basically the end of the marriage, though I didn't realize it at that time...6 months later, I was out of the military. She wished to return to Germany, and because I don't believe in Divorce, I went with her. The next 3 years...were filled with misery. I had to learn German, find work, and deal with her 'cheating'...on a regular basis. How I managed to do all that at once, I'm not sure. It's still a mystery to me...

She got pregnant. I'm still not sure if the child is mine, but for all intents and purposes, it is. She finally met someone (one of her 'side romances') and Divorced me. That of course, after financially ruining me. I won't go much into the 'trennungsjahr', which is a one year period here in Germany after the declaration of Divorce, and the actual Divorce...I don't know why the Germans do this...but it's bad. She got to make more bills at my cost in this time, with her new lover, and got to keep my child from me (nothing to be done about it...). After the actual Divorce, I got the dubious pleasure of running through the courts for 4 years now, trying to just secure visting rights to my child (she is now 7). Financially...just now starting to get my feet under me. I now have a court order so that I get to see my daughter regularly (don't ask me about court costs, please.)

Now, I don't know Kartis Shone, so I can't really say anything about her...opinions. One thing I do know...I know what it is like to be cheated on...and cheated on...and cheated on. I know what it is like to be ruined financially, emotionally, and job-wise. And the feeling of absolute helplessness as the law prevents me from my child...or should I say, the lack of the law. Only after learning the law, and using it to my advantage, was I able to secure visiting rights. As for the cheating issue...well, after working in a bar for a year...women are as bad as the men. They are just a little more...descrete about it. Yes, it is true that many men (here in Germany) don't consider a 'puff' (ahhh...whorehouse) visit as cheating...how they come to that conclusion is beyond me. As for men ending up with financial gains here in Germany...never. The women do. Almost always. A Divorce in Germany is the financial death for a man...he will pay, and pay, and pay, without a bloody chance in hell of getting back his old financial status. Do I sound a bit bitter? Maybe. Certainly the 'price' that my child has payed, can't be measured in money...

Now, exactly what is to learn out of all this? Well, if I had known of everything Ithat I have gone through ahead of time...I would have Divorced her in America. All the signs were there, I just...ignored them. Why? Hard to say...love, not believing in Divorce, stupidness...take your pick. Having said that, a Divorce then, would have saved me much trouble, money and probably a large portion of my sanity.

So what did I gain out of my experience? Well, I'm not as naive as I was before...and much more aware of my rights...or lack thereof. I've also come to realize, that love is not always the answer...that despite being in love, it can go wrong. That not everything can be solved with love. One needs more. Trust and communication is (IMHO) even more important. I am very satisfied that my code of honor works...even under the hardest of durass...which probably saved me from a long jail sentence. Knowing that I remained true to myself, though, is probably my biggest reward. That, and my wife that I now have.

RammStein, I hope you find what you are looking for. And I hope that things work out. One way or the other. I won't tell you what to do, because I am not you. I can only offer my advice, my experiences, and the assurance that if you feel the need to talk, or whatever, that you may contact me to do so. Sometimes, it's hard to remain 'firmly on the ground' when in the thick of it. Sometimes, taking a step back, getting some breathing room to think, is best. I think you realize that. Good luck.

RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 09-10-2002 20:01

Thanks ladies and gents .. I'm sure if doesn't find what she is seeking we will not last much longer because I'm not going to get played like this .. I'm 25 and need to move on not hold on to dreams .. as I think .. hope for the best but be prepared for the worst .. and that's what I'm doing

Webshaman .. thanks for offering your listening ear .. and same goes for Bug

Stone and GrythusDraconis .. thanks for your words

update .. I have given my wife her food for thought .. I'm currently not sleeping with her since Sunday night .. and I will not be returning til Thursday .. that is if she is ready to tell this women that she "feels/thinks" she is in love with that they are over and she knows her true future is with me .. fyi .. this women we use to have threesome's together with .. but it eventually turned into only my wife and her doing shit together .. even though I knew about it .. so it wasn't like she went behind my back .. but I had caught her most recently going behind my back about certain things .. and I have given my wife food for thought now and I'm being the strong man here and I'm not getting walked over .. no matter how much I love this women .. I'm not someone's personal doormat just because she thinks I'll be cool with it because I was at one time

anyway .. I add more details as time passes .. my little soap opera!


.::. cEll .::. 513

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 09-16-2002 07:21

I have to ask how you could leave the threesome aspect out of the original description. Was that going on before or during the marriage? Or both?

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 09-16-2002 09:52

Aw, crap. I knew it was just too specific to be really hypothetical. I haven't visited this thread for a while, so this came as a bit of a surprise. Man, so that's what you meant when you said RL was getting rough. I feel kind of stupid for not putting two and two together...

Well, you're right about one thing. I've never been in that sort of situation, and I've got to admit that it's a lot easier to sit here and philosophize about hypothetical questions. Imagining my wife saying that to me helps a bit, I suppose, but it's definitely nothing like actually experiencing it. Even if I can't exactly empathize, though, I can sympathize, and if nothing else, I'm hear to listen. Just like everyone else.

RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 09-16-2002 16:23

damnit! .. I just wrote this really long update and my name wasn't spelled right so I lost everything when I clicked the 'back' button .. I'll rewrite it later


.::. cEll .::. 513

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 09-16-2002 18:58

That seems to be happening a lot lately. Whenever I write a long post I always select all and copy it to the clipboard *before* I hit the submit button. I got very tired of losing all that work a few too many times.

RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 09-16-2002 21:33

Bugimus .. both .. but there was to be no attachment to any of these women and frankly she got attached

Suho .. thanks for the support and listening ear

Update on the situation .. I have finally returned home after a week of isolation, thought, and deep communication with my wife .. I have given her my expectation or that is what I expect to happen in our relationship .. and if they don't happen then I am calling it quits .. I've told her what she has been doing and what she continues to do .. it's just deceiving herself and what truely does love her as a person and an individual and that this other women is just out to bring darkness into her life and that you have been mentally fucked over by this women .. my wife knows the right choice is to remain with me but she can not let this evil women go for some reason .. this is the hold I am talking about .. that this women has over my wife .. in this respect my wife needs help .. and we will be seeking professional help together from a Doctor .. This has to be one of the hardest things I have ever had to go through in my lifetime .. and I hope that this will be one of the last major things I will have to go through in my life .. because I have been through enough of this type of BS that any other person wouldn't tolerate it as much as I have

thanks for listening again guys and gals .. hope your days are brighter then mine are at this particular time in my life


.::. cEll .::. 513

Rameses Niblik the Third
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: From:From:
Insane since: Aug 2001

posted posted 09-17-2002 14:32

Well, I reckon that I'd speak to her first, ask her if she still loved me, not in the physical sense, but in the emotional sense. After all, I wouldn't want to break my vows and just leave her, or have an affair in spite. I would sit her down, and we would talk about it. In the end, it would be up to her, because I wouldn't leave her for the world.

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 09-17-2002 15:53

Hehe, welcome to the thread, Rameses. You might want to read through all of the posts here first, though.

InI
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-17-2002 19:26

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

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