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counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 11-07-2002 05:20

Can somebody tell me the credibility of the book of Enoch? I was especially considering the passage about the origins of a race of "giants."

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 11-07-2002 06:04

The book of who? The origin of what? The whichness of the why?

genis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Dallas, TX
Insane since: Aug 2002

posted posted 11-07-2002 07:54

you'll find this site in the google cache enlightening, i'm sure.

the original site is apparently down at the moment.

click me!

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 11-07-2002 09:19

I'm actually working on a translation of the long lost Book of Suho... talk about controversial... it makes the Book of Enoch look like a children's story.

bodhi23
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Greensboro, NC USA
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 11-07-2002 14:56

The Book of Enoch is used more often in Jewish Qabbalistic theology more than contemporary Judaism or Christianity... What's the context of your reference? We're you just perusing the Bible and wondering? Or did you run across it doing something else?

Bodhisattva: an enlightened being full of generosity who chooses to remain on this plane in order to help others find enlightenment.
Cell 617

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 11-07-2002 15:33

cfb: You need to be more specific about what you are asking about. Are you asking did there used to be a race of giants?

Because the answer is no - it was largely misinterpretation of fossil bones as the ideas about the giant cyclops were possibly influenced by mammoth skulls (the nose hole looks like a single giant eye socket).

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Gilbert Nolander
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Washington DC
Insane since: May 2002

posted posted 11-07-2002 18:05

Yea, there were giants, they built the mountains. Just like we make large piles of dirt and rocks when we clear a construction site, mountains were made by the giants.

And if you believe this, I have a sterling silver ring that used to be God's, you can buy it from me for $1,000,000.00

Thanks.


Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 11-08-2002 02:29

Now, was this ring a gift from God, or did you pick it up when He went through that slump and had to pawn a lot of His stuff off? Also, does it have any special powers? I mean, if I'm going to be dropping a million bucks on a ring, I want to make sure it's real quality merchandise....

InSiDeR
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Oblivion
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted posted 11-08-2002 02:54

Ahh the powers of the Qabbalah.... Truely amazing stuff there.

I have 3 of those books . They are great reading and maybe too deep for some. For some reason they contributed to my schism instead of my faith. Go figure.

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 11-08-2002 04:38

Ok: I'm guessing a large majority of the people here have NO idea what the book of Enoch is. The Book of Enoch, or 1 Enoch, is a book that was written by the father of Methusela (A man that lived to be 500 years old). I was accepted by the Jewish faith untill a rabbi condemmed it, saying that it was blasphemus. Now it is not commonly accepted by most religions. I'm not sure, but it might be part of some extra books in the Catholic bible, the Apocripha (sp?)

I am researching this for (kind of) my own interest. My German teacher is really into religious studies, and, although claims to have no religion, beleives in the Christian god, although is not truly a "Christian." She was wondering what the exact meaning of the book was, and I got sucked up into it, and eventually ended up reading the book etc etc etc...

So here's my question: Does the book of Enoch hold any credibility, because I do know for a fact that there is archaelogical evidence to suggest that a race of giants did exist, and, taking the Bible from a purely historical standpoint (It is very well regarded as a historical record), it also says that there is a race of giants (Goliath, and, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure that there was referance to giants in the promised land). So does Enoch have any credibility, and, I'm not looking for a debate over whether God exist's, or any sarcastic responces. (eg: Gilbert Nolander).

This is the passage:

quote:
Go speak to the Watchers of Heaven, who have sent you to
intercede for them. Tell them, You should intercede for
men, and not men for you. Why did you leave lofty holy
Heaven to sleep with women, to defile yourselves with the
daughters of men and take them as your wives, and like the
children of the earth to beget sons, in your case giants?

Though you were holy and spiritual, living the eternal life,
you defiled yourself with the blood of women, you begot
children with the blood of flesh, and like the others you
have lusted after flesh and blood as do those who die and
perish.

Because they perish I gave them wives so they might
impregnante them, have children, and nothing be lacking on
the earth. But you were spiritual and immortal for all
generations of the world. so I gave you no wives, for Heaven
is your proper dwelling place. And now the giants, offspring
of spirit and flesh, will be called spirits on the earth, and
earth shall be their dwelling. Their bodies emitted evil
spirits because they were born from human women and the holy
Watchers.

The giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack over the earth.
Although they hunger and thirst, they do not eat. They
offend.

These spirits will rise up against men and women because they
proceed from them. "The giants will slaughter, unpunished,
until the day of the great judgment. Then the age, the
Watchers, and the godless will be wholly consummated.

As for the Watcher who sent you to intercede for them, tell
them: 'You were in Heaven but the mysteries were not revealed
to you. You knew worthless ones, and in the hardness of your
hearts you revealed these to women, and through these secrets
women and men work much evil earth.' Say to them, 'You have
no peace.'"





[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 11-08-2002).]

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 11-08-2002).]

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 11-08-2002 04:43

cfb: You said:

quote:
I do know for a fact that there is archaelogical evidence to suggest that a race of giants did exist



I would be very interested to see your evidence for this.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 11-08-2002 05:01

Here Emps (and whoever):

Link 1
Link2
Link3
Link4

I have a book, called Scientific Proof For Biblical Mysteries that explains it much better, and when I can find it I'll post some better information, that I know is actually credible.

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 11-08-2002 05:32

And here is a passage from the Bible:

quote:
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 11-08-2002 05:50

cfb: That is all poorly interpreted natural phenomena that was discredited a long time ago. Some of those arguments rely on an actual Flood and the short chronologies of the Young Earth creationists neither of which is credible.

For discussion of this kind of thing see:
http://www.talkorigins.org

Specifically stuff like:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/ce/3/part2.html

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 11-08-2002 05:52

OK, that was spur of the moment information, and what I was trying to dig at was some more credible information, such as that in the book, which was dedicated to the giants in the middle easern/biblical area of the earth.

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 11-08-2002 06:15

Heres more along the lines of what I was looking for, nice links btw, I found this off of there:

Click

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 11-08-2002).]

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 11-08-2002 14:14

cfb: That is just restating your arguement and doesn't actual deal with any physical evidence.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Gilbert Nolander
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Washington DC
Insane since: May 2002

posted posted 11-08-2002 14:46

I think like anything, it has credibility to some people and to others it is crap. I mean for every theory there is a counter theory. You are not going to find some definitave proof of this, unless you perhaps go to the Vatican and talk to some priest there and convince him to tell you of secrets that they do not reveal to the general public. I mean there is proof that it is credible, and I am sure there is also proof that it is not credible. Like Emp's was saying, there is proof that there are no giants, and like you are saying, there is proof that there are giants. For every idea, there are two sides and two theories. And that ring is still for sale if you want it.

Do a google search for: "Book of Enoch" +credibility

Maybe this will help

Wierd Stuff about Enoch



[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 11-08-2002).]

counterfeitbacon
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Vancouver, WA
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 11-08-2002 15:45

Ok...Thanks. What I was wondering, really, was not: Did Angels and people have kids, who were giants, but was there at one time a race of giants, because it was recorded in the Bible, which is a great historical record. Thanks though!

bodhi23
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Greensboro, NC USA
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 11-08-2002 20:09

haven't we discussed the viability of the Bible as an accurate historical record? Most of what's in there can be documented by archaeological record, but the bulk of it is as much myth, legend, and moral story as any other religious tome. ESPECIALLY the Old Testament...



Bodhisattva: an enlightened being full of generosity who chooses to remain on this plane in order to help others find enlightenment.
Cell 617

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