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RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 12-26-2002 18:31

Situation:

You find yourself facing your family having not seen them in 4 years .. you've been isolating yourself because of personal reasons and because you have been hurt by them .. this was a surprise that your friend set up and you had no idea about .. but you are in front of your mother, father, and sister .. what would you do? .. turn and walk away? .. stay and deal? .. put on a face or act? .. just what would you do if you were in this situation?

[this in no way is a situation I have been put into .. I'm going to try and get these "what would you do" situations going again it was nice to read how each person would react to the situation]


.::. cEll .::. 513

RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 12-26-2002 18:37

to toss in some curve balls

your mother is just excited and surprised to see you .. she has moved on and just wants you back in her/there life's

your father has missed you but has been hurt extremely .. is willing to talk about it but isn't willing to appoligize for what he had done to you because he is just bull headed like that

your sister hates you right now because of all the worry and hurt you had caused mom and dad .. and will get her say because she is older then you and is almost as bull headed as your father

you were hurt because of the way you were being treated and taken advantage of .. so what would you do?


.::. cEll .::. 513

silence
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: soon to be "the land down under"
Insane since: Jan 2001

posted posted 12-26-2002 22:55

I would act the part and say a few pleasantries in order to try to defuse the tense situation, and try to excuse myself as politely as possible.

Then I'd go ream out my "friend" and possibly sock him in the mouth. His heart was in the right place, but you shouldn't spring something like this on a guy. I would need to be emotionally ready for such a confrontation, and being thrown in an awkward position like this is probably more harmful than good.

I positively detest personal things like these being used as surprises. You can't force someone to deal with something that they're not ready for, especially something as personal and sensitive as family issues.

You know, I believe my friend would be getting two socks in the jaw and a thorough ass whooping. Then I'd invite all his ex-girlfriends to the hospital to meet his wife while he was in traction. How's that for a surprise?

RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 12-27-2002 02:08

lol .. well done silence .. any more? .. come on peeps I know these always got a decent response before .. show some true form


.::. cEll .::. 513

Yannah
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: In your Hard Drive; C:
Insane since: Dec 2002

posted posted 12-27-2002 08:20

cry?

Ars Longa Vita Brevis!

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 12-27-2002 10:06

Hmmm...could almost be me...with the exception of the father part...I don't often get to see my family on a regular basis...so everytime I do get a chance, it's like getting to know them again...well, sort of. How do I handle it? I just be myself...and do my best to stay out of things, that do not concern me. Family, for me, is something sacred...

I guess I could say a lot of things, at this point. Fact is, members of ones family often do things that result in hurt, or concern, to someone else in the family...and don't always apologize, for many reasons...so, how to deal with this...hmmm...well, my family does tend to talk with one another...not that surface 'How are you', in the sickly-sweet kind of tone (man, how I hate that...), but real, down to the bones kinda stuff...and sometimes, it can get kind of...rough. Sometimes, the truth hurts. But. Nothing beats the truth, in actually getting past problems, hurts, worries, etc. Check your ego at the door. It's your family...and you don't get to pick and choose. The question, the real question, to ask is : is/would your family be there for you, when you need it (really need it)? And do/would you do the same? If the answer is yes, then your family (and your relationship to your family) is worth preserving, irregardless of...stumbling blocks. Harbouring bad feelings...hmmm...I used to. Against my mother, sisters, etc. For 'wrongs' done, real or imagined...but somewhere I grew up, along the line. And learned to forgive. Felt great, to let go of all that...anger, and negative feelings. So, in your situation, the only advice I can give, is can you forgive? Is it really worth it, for you, to keep harbouring these...feelings? What are you getting out of doing so? Is it possible for you to just let it be...to let it go...and to get on with bettering your relationship to your family? Often (and most of the time), one cannot change others (esp. family members). But you can change yourself. Your sister has an axe to grind with you? Remove the reasons from yourself. Kinda hard, to maintain negative feelings, against someone that has changed for the better...and provides no surface to attack. Maybe a heart-felt, personal, one-on-one discussion, over dinner, might help...I don't know if your family talks to one another...I mean really talks. And arguments, and fights, are rarely one-sided...in fact, I have never encountered one that is. Maybe apologizing for your mistakes, will lead to the apologies you are...waiting for? Expecting? Need? Sometimes, someone just needs to take that first step...some say, time heals all wounds...well, I don't know about that. I will say, that first steps go a long way toward beginning the healing process...in oneself. It could be, that it will also help others...maybe your sister, maybe your father...it's hard not to accept a truthful, heart-felt apology coming from a family member. Normally, when one shows remorse (and means it), it often leads to 'opening the floodgates', and maybe old wounds will be...well, brought to the surface. But by getting the 'poison' out of the wound, this allows it to finally heal...if not for the rest of your family, for you...

But remember to be honest, not only with your family, but also with yourself. Sometimes, that is the hardest, of all things...but it is often well worth the struggle. Try to keep yourself on reasonable terms...laying blame is not a good way to go about healing wounds...explaining ones position, and why one feels the way they feel...well, that is something different. Be considerate...and be willing to listen. People, esp. family members, often see things...much differently than you do. This is because they see it from a different perspective...and with different emotions. Also, memory seems to function differently...esp. amongst family members. I know that when my family sits together, and talks about the past, everyone seems to have a totally different set of memories, to what actually took place...kind of funny, really. Try to restrain yourself from becoming too emotional...even though that is very difficult, as I well know...shouting matches are hardly a good, solid way to resolve something.

What ever you do...see if you can find out why your father has a 'chip' on his shoulder...maybe from your mother...maybe she can explain it to you...why he is reacting, the way he is. Maybe he is really hurting...I would imagine that he is. If you have children yourself, you already know why...if you don't have children yet, then I'll try to explain...remember, your father (and mother) raised you. They definitely only wanted the best for you (and your sister). They definitely love you, even if it is not shown, or said...parents do love their children. It is this, that can lead to being deeply hurt...if a parent is hurting, because of something they, or their children, have done, then there is love...otherwise, it wouldn't hurt. One does not become disappointed, or angry, with someone who means nothing. Now, to your father...well, most men have...problems, talking (or even dealing) with their emotions...esp. as a father (Most men think, or are taught, mostly through example, that as a father, one has to be strong...and not show weak emotions...or even admit, that one has...emotions, such as grief, sadness, etc). However, your mother probably knows...maybe you could try talking privately with her...maybe (and most probably), your father really regrets, and is sorry, for whatever happened...losing one's son, irregardless of how, has got to be painful...and has probably resulted in 'what did I/we do wrong?'...questions...that are hard to answer. A form of self-punishment...your father has probably paid a very high price, emotionally, for what ever happened...maybe it's time, to let bygones be bygones...you both have suffered enough, I think. Pride. It can be a big...block. Not willing to admit...fault. 'I am your son!' or 'I am your father!'...these feelings can get in the way of healing the problems...you are two people, who love one another, and are hurting. How do I know this? Because of your hurt...otherwise, you wouldn't care...and neither would your father. Luckily, in my family, we are allowed to tell one another that we love them. And I mean the heart-felt love, of a family member...not the 'surface' thing...so, I would just say, 'I love you, and I'm sorry I hurt you. I didn't mean to. But you hurt me, too. I'm still hurting, but I still love you. I am your son. You are my father. Can we find a way, together, to get past this, and get back to being father and son?' Sometimes, people need to hear that they are needed...and loved. Even fathers. Even sons. Even family...

RammStein
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cEll 513, west wing of the ninth plain
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 12-27-2002 15:19

[puff puff] .. well said Shaman .. I really value your input .. thanks for always giving your opinion .. though it seems to me you were talking to me .. I assure you I once had this situation but have smoothed things over with the family but like you don't visit or see them on a regular bases .. [passes you the peace pipe]


.::. cEll .::. 513

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 12-27-2002 17:04

*Puff, puff* Ahhh...nothing like a good peacepipe. Actually, Ramm, the 'theoretical' whomever is meant, in my post...I just used the 'you' form...it's a bit more...personal, as the 'one' form...

But it could have been you, as well...the message, I guess, is what is important...

Heh. Sometimes I get carried away...did I really type that much stuff? *Sheepish grin*

Peacepipe, anyone?

tomeaglescz
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Czech Republic via Bristol UK
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 12-28-2002 08:42

Ram, what would i do???


Hmm,, well in my particular case i would probably be pretty happy that someone had set this up, after 18 years i am going to se my dad. Maybe if someone had done this a long time ago; i wouldnt have missed out on so much, it is strange to think that my dad probably will have less than 18 years to live, i mean he's 62 now, add on 18 years and ya get 80 (not many in his familly reach that age), so we have less time left than what we wasted with our stupidity. One thing i have learned if its not because some serious shit within the familly (ie. abuse) then life is too short and familly is a precious thing. I know i hurt my dad as much as he hurt me but in a different way, i just hope that when i see him face to face and say sorry, that he can see the man i have become and hope that he will be proud, and that he will forgive the boy that i was. anyway thats my 0.2.


tom



[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 12-28-2002).]

Thumper
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Deeetroit, MI. USA
Insane since: Mar 2002

posted posted 12-28-2002 21:38

Grudges destroy people...
Not being "emotionally ready" for something like this just reinforces your neglect to resolve problems...
Life is too short, and a pouty lip will eventually cramp...
Brewing in drama and misery is counter-productive and makes for a horrible cup of joe...

I would thank my friend, even though his company was loved by my own misery. It shows that he'd be willing to make a sacrifice in the name of friendship, to improve a friendship.

St. Seneca
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: 3rd shelf, behind the cereal
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 12-30-2002 17:22

Grudges maintain social order. If people did not hold grudges, there would be no consequences for some actions and humans would run around hurting one another willy-nilly.

Your friend steals your girlfriend of two years but you don't hold a grudge against him and they break up a few months later. What's to keep this friend from doing the same thing next year.

Alternately, you hold a grudge against your friend and break off the friendship. No matter how much effort or how many appologies he puts forth, you refuse to forgive him or revive your friendship. He will never have the opportunity to steal your girlfriend again. Also, he will probably be more reluctant to do something similiar to another friend for fear of losing him as well.

So, for the overall picture, my reaction would depend on the offense. According to Ramm's second post, however, the dad refuses to appologize and the sister is pissy. I would walk away. You haven't held your grudge long enough, they aren't sorry for their misdeeds. Sure, mom would suffer as well, but that would just encourage her to get the other two to come around.

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 12-31-2002 11:06

Hmmm. OK, I agree that Grudges do have their merit...and, as you explained, do play an important role in society. However, in this particular case, I don't see your solution, as one that will work. A family is a life-long endeavor. Because we don't come back (at least, no-one has any proof of this), and because I don't think the parents in question will be producing anymore children (and under that, sons), how is holding the grudge going to enable the father to relate better to a new son? In other words, the grudge holding (on both sides) in this case will just make the situation worse...or hold it 'stabile'.

Making the first step gives one an advantage, I think, in this case. An advantage with the two other members of the family. It may not repair the relationship with the father...but it will have an effect on the mother, and the sister. By showing that one is more than willing to put the 'grudge' aside, it changes the situation for the other two family members...now, the pressure (blame, fault) is on the side of the father (if he is still not being forgiving).

St. Seneca
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: 3rd shelf, behind the cereal
Insane since: Dec 2000

posted posted 12-31-2002 16:38

The grudge may not help the father relate to a new son, but whatever he may have done to his son, he might not be so willing to do to another person. Also it serves as an example for other people that might be watching the situation, especially other fathers.

Even though grudges serve an important function in society, that isn't why we keep them. We keep them because the other person has offended our sense of right and wrong.

Not keeping a grudge will harm our sense of justice, keeping one too long will make us bitter. The trick is to find the right amount of time.

I do like your solution, WebShaman. Your postion with the family being a life-long endeavour makes your solution nessecity. You must believe that the alienation from the family must be just as rough on the us as the rest of the family due to strong family ties.

I come from a different position. While I have ties to my family, they are very loose. If I were in the situation that Ramm has placed us in, I would have no qualms about breaking those ties permanently. I could remove myself from their influence and live quite happily without them. Maintaining my grudge would require no effort or harm to myself.

So while you would be compelled by filial obligations to attempt to reconcile, I would not.

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 01-02-2003 16:31

That was a very good point - yes, grudge holding is a personal choice. Also, you pointed out a very valid point, that I had not considered...very loose, to no family ties...hmmm.

Interesting...I'll have to think about that...thanks for explaining.

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