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Dracusis
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Brisbane, Australia
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted posted 02-16-2003 15:45

I among 100,000 others marched the streets of Brisbane in protest of our governments’ actions surrounding the situation in Iraq. We were joined by 10's of thousands in Adelaide; half a million in Sydney and further 200,000 marched in Melbourne the day before. These were the biggest rallies ever seen in Australian history, the only past protests that neared these numbers were some 30 odd years ago and even then if took years of bloodshed in Vietnam before people took to the streets by the thousands.

Rallies the world over are thought to bring the total number of protesters up to 10 million!

And still out leaders won't listen. Even after this our leader tells us their wanting a peaceful resolution all the while deploying our armed forces into the middle eastern region and saying that if America attacks we will support them regardless. In the end, it may not make any difference, but being in the middle of 100,000 people marching in the streets just to be heard does bring me a lot of hope that a peaceful solution can and will be found.

Morgan Ramsay
Neurotic (0) Inmate
Newly admitted
posted posted 02-16-2003 15:52

Don't have anything better to do in Aussieland do ya, eh? jk That's a lot of people marching.

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 02-16-2003 15:57

We got over 300,000 here in Melbourne

Rinswind 2th
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Den Haag: The Royal Residence
Insane since: Jul 2000

posted posted 02-16-2003 16:04

70.000 in amsterdam.

"Freedom of speech is by no means freedom to insult others" from the Razorart goodbye letter.

MW
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: 48°00´N 7°51´E
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 02-16-2003 16:19

500,000 in Berlin.

"Freedom of the press is limited to those who own one." - A. J. Liebling (1904 - 1963)

mahjqa
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: The Demented Side of the Fence
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 02-16-2003 16:53



(was published yesterday in the NRC, a Dutch newspaper)

(they're both dressed like that since it's somewhat of a satire of Donald Duck)

InSiDeR
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Oblivion
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted posted 02-16-2003 17:14

We have over a couple thousand just in my city, and about 70,000 at our capitol.

Damn hippies.

[This message has been edited by InSiDeR (edited 02-17-2003).]

Fig
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Houston, TX, USA
Insane since: Apr 2000

posted posted 02-16-2003 23:24

from NYC:
Fifty arrests were made and two protesters were hospitalized — one with an epileptic seizure and another who had diabetes, Kelly said. Eight officers also were injured, including a mounted police officer who was pulled off his horse and beaten, Kelly said.

not a great way to emphasize peace guys. one other blurb i found interesting:
More than 100 celebrities, including Kim Basinger, Matt Damon, Ethan Hawke, Samuel L. Jackson, Jessica Lange, Tim Robbins and Martin Sheen urged Bush to avoid war with Iraq in a letter released Tuesday. The letter endorsed efforts to disarm Saddam and urged that the U.N. weapons inspection program be given time to work, while rejectingt the idea that “our country, alone, has the right to launch first-strike attacks.”

does appearing in a film make an individual more qualified to judge our nation's political agenda than an average citizen?


KAIROSinteractive

Morgan Ramsay
Neurotic (0) Inmate
Newly admitted
posted posted 02-17-2003 01:09

No, but it shows that liberals are capable of civility. Oh, celebrities are thought of as role models. When people start attacking police officers while protesting for peace, the role models have to come out and "show" the people how you work the system. I never saw the big deal of celebrities. They're just people doing their jobs.

Like I said in my tribute collage to the astronauts who died, "in loving memory of all the astronauts who perished living their dreams... may we aspire to do the same."



[This message has been edited by Morgan Ramsay (edited 02-17-2003).]

Yannah
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: In your Hard Drive; C:
Insane since: Dec 2002

posted posted 02-17-2003 02:38

two of the teachers from my school and one of my classmates went to Brisbane City to protest.

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 02-17-2003 02:39

We've had close to a million people turn out on the streets of various cities around australia, and our Prime Minister still refers to it as the 'petty view of a minority people'

Yannah
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: In your Hard Drive; C:
Insane since: Dec 2002

posted posted 02-17-2003 02:52

he doesn't care about what his people had in mind
"We have to deal with this later on"-Howard

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 02-17-2003 04:30

"And you will be judged by your actions"

To all those (like me) who protested for peace...thank you for standing up...


WebShaman

Dracusis
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Brisbane, Australia
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted posted 02-17-2003 07:45
quote:
Fifty arrests were made and two protesters were hospitalized — one with an epileptic seizure and another who had diabetes, Kelly said. Eight officers also were injured, including a mounted police officer who was pulled off his horse and beaten, Kelly said.

not a great way to emphasize peace guys.



Well that's a very tabloid point of view. The total number of protesters in Australia neared 1 million. How many arrests? None. I can't say the same for other areas of the world but as far as I know, every protest that took place on the 16th was for the most part very peaceful with the one exception being NYC. Considering the lengths that some crowds have resorted to in the past just to be heard of the rallies on the 16th was an amazing demonstration of peace.

The 16th of February was the first ever global rally and saw record crowds the world over. People from all walks of life, all religions, all nationalities, all races... they all stood up to say one thing. If something as mammoth as this has no effect on our governments then we really have to start asking why.

When one person writes a letter to complain about something, it's said 1000 more who didn't write in to complain have the same views. If one person rallies in the streets, it's said that around 15 to 30 others that didn't rally have the same views. The greater Brisbane area or the whole South East Queensland area (from north - Caboolture City - to south - Ipswich City) has a population of 2 million. 100,000 at the rally x 15... You do the math.

Fig
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Houston, TX, USA
Insane since: Apr 2000

posted posted 02-17-2003 08:44

really just an observation more than anything else, wasn't generalizing. i just find it fascinating when people rallying for peace or justice or whatever cause reinforce their views with violence, however few or many it might be.

Morgan Ramsay
Neurotic (0) Inmate
Newly admitted
posted posted 02-17-2003 08:52

[Edit] Morgan Ramsey, your actions have been noted here. If you must continue with this absolutely childish display, then do it there.[/edit]



[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 02-17-2003).]

Dracusis
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Brisbane, Australia
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted posted 02-17-2003 09:59

Morgan, your a waste of space. Can I close you? *smirk*

Grow up dude. This is just petty.

MW
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: 48°00´N 7°51´E
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 02-17-2003 11:23

There were other reports from NYC suggesting that actually the police (apart from using tear gas and charging people with their horses) beat up a number of peaceful protesters. But I guess that kind of news doesn´t make it to Texas...
In situations like this, officials are the last ones to believe.

"Freedom of the press is limited to those who own one." - A. J. Liebling (1904 - 1963)

Dufty
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Where I'm from isn't where I'm at!
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 02-17-2003 12:00

If there's one thing history has proven time and time again it's that those in power care not for the opinions of those they have power over.

Let's face it, the politicians have their own motive for this war, and quite obviously care not for a peaceful resolution.

But it was a heartwarming sight nonetheless.


***Sidenote***
Morgan Ramsay, I thought you were so sick of our opinions that you were leaving?
So why, when you care so little for our opinions, do you keep coming back and filling the forum with crap which you don't even validate by providing a supplemental opinion?

Even InSiDeR hasn't managed to sucesfully piss me off on such a regular basis!
In fact, compared to some of the shit we've had to contend with from you, InSiDeR is almost likeable!

Shape up, or ship out!
(I for one am sick of your idle threats)

[This message has been edited by Dufty (edited 02-17-2003).]

Morgan Ramsay
Neurotic (0) Inmate
Newly admitted
posted posted 02-17-2003 12:07

Idle threats? LOL! And those are?

Dufty
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Where I'm from isn't where I'm at!
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 02-17-2003 12:22

*AHEM*

quote:
This time... I will not return.




[This message has been edited by Dufty (edited 02-17-2003).]

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 02-17-2003 13:55

and I must compliment you Dufty...were you Nostradamus in another life? Becuase you were dead right with your prediction in that thread.

Dufty
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Where I'm from isn't where I'm at!
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 02-17-2003 14:07

Nostradamus?
How I wish I had his insight... every Saturday just before the lotto!

Merely a case of been-here-before-itus.
(And probably will be again)

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 02-17-2003 14:10

Its deja all over again.

Right off to P&S for this thread too............

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Wes
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Inside THE BOX
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 02-17-2003 14:56

I'm a little late on this, but...

quote:
does appearing in a film make an individual more qualified to judge our nation's political agenda than an average citizen?



No, but does it make them less? When people hear of Joe Sixpack standng up for what he believes, not many care. But, when you're in the public eye and you stand up, people do notice.

Sorry, I'd just hate for people to start dismissing my opinions when I become famous.


Fig
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Houston, TX, USA
Insane since: Apr 2000

posted posted 02-17-2003 16:39
quote:
There were other reports from NYC suggesting that actually the police (apart from using tear gas and charging people with their horses) beat up a number of peaceful protesters. But I guess that kind of news doesn´t make it to Texas...



nope, guess it didn't. i did have to ride my horse into town to check the news, and the internet connections are really fuzzy out here anyway since they've to go across all the wide open plains to get here so i guess there wasn't enough bandwidth to get that story too

chris (who always wonders what fascinating stuff he misses on edited posts in the middle of the night)

[This message has been edited by Fig (edited 02-17-2003).]

Fig
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Houston, TX, USA
Insane since: Apr 2000

posted posted 02-17-2003 17:52

and a question for those who oppose war (personally i'm more supportive of it than against it but am very interested in hearing both sides): what's the solution?

at what point will saddam have either satisfied inspectors and the UN or have broken the proverbial camel's back with delays and excuses? should he just be left in power? in reading these threads i've heard a lot of reasons why people feel a war isn't justified but very little on what should be done instead. just wondering.

Lacuna
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: the Asylum ghetto
Insane since: Oct 2002

posted posted 02-17-2003 22:15

i'm just curious, did anyone participate in any "support our troops" marches??

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 02-17-2003 22:59

Fig: The problem is that it is being portrayed as being a very black and white thing - you are either for the war or you are against it (full stop period, no room for negotiation, no way jose, nope, no thank you sir........). The people who were protesting against war were protesting against a US/UK war that was being rammed down people's throats. A lot of the people on those marches would be in favour of a war given a second UN resolution and the amassing of enough evidence to satisfy out allies.

I'm against this war - I am not against a war against Iraq or all war (we Emperors tend to be overly fond of them actually). The problem with true pacificism is that it relies on everyone being good sports or it relies on someone else being prepared to wield the big stick and I'm afraid we don't live in the kind of world where the former works and the latter just isn't acceptable.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 02-17-2003 23:18

I'm not going to generalize... well, maybe a little but it's hard to imagine a great number of the protesters this past weekend being in favor of *any* war. It is also hard to imagine a great number of them having a decent knowledge of history going back further than 10 years at the most. In fact, there was actually a banner being carried by one protester with the words "peace in our time". When one protester was asked about how this protest compared to Chamerlain's pronouncement, he admitted he had no idea who Chamberlain was or what he said. ~sigh~

[disclaimer] I totally understand that not all protesters have such a limited view of the world and I am not criticizing those of you here who have well founded concerns about *this* war. [/disclaimer]

And it would be good of me to point out that a great number of those in favor of this war are equally ignorant of the abuses of power by the US and other nations involved.

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 02-17-2003 23:41

Bugimus: I think you'd be suprised. Polls here consistently show the vast majority of people in the UK say they are against war but when asked if they would support a war with a second UN resolution the numbers are far more evenly balanced.

In some ways the sheer number of people on the street suggest:

1. That people are better informed about the issues around these conflicts.

2. They think they can actually make a change - few people would believe that a war is avoidable but that they might be able to influence our leaders to deflect the runaway train down the tracks of a more 'just' war.

I don't know - I can't speak for them that is just my take on things so who knows?

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 02-17-2003 23:53

I will admit I have a very cynical view of most people's knowledge or sense or responsibility when it comes to world affairs. I would like to think that most are well informed but I just don't see it. Worse yet, I don't think most people *care* as long as the problems don't affect them personally. All I can say is that I hope I am wrong in that estimation.

reitsma
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: the bigger bedroom
Insane since: Oct 2000

posted posted 02-18-2003 00:10

yeah - peace protests.

i'm all for them.

DOWN WITH PEACE, i say.

i'm glad so many people are protesting against peace.

Dufty
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Where I'm from isn't where I'm at!
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 02-18-2003 13:19

All this talk of war, motives, backing, yays and nays... I just have one issue burning inside my mind at the moment...

If the US/UK are keen to take out Saddam, because he's an evil dictator... why aren't they applying the same logic to all evil dictators?

For example: Robert Mugabe is threatening to kill 6 million of his citizens through a process of slow starvation, on the grounds that these people are not his supporters, therefore, are not worthy of his attentions.
(ok - so I added a personal slant to that, but essentially the issue boils down to: Support me or starve).

Based on death toll (potential deaths included), Mugabe is second only to Adolf Hitler.

So Why are we not stopping this evil dictator with extreme prejudice?
Maybe we don't have as much to gain?
Maybe, he's low-profile enough to ignore?
Maybe it's because he isn't Muslim?
Maybe it's because 'Daddy' has no unfinished business in Zimbabwe?

Or maybe I'm just getting a little cynical about this whole war crap.
I just don't see how we can justify one, and not the other.

As for peaceful resolution. As long as there's a burning bush in the white-house, peace is unlikely.

*Heads off to calm himself down*... fucking pointless killing...

quote:
"And for what? For a little bit of money"
-Fargo
Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 02-18-2003 13:50

I thought this article was interesting given the discussion Bugs and I were having:
www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,897661,00.html

Dufty: Ahhhhhhhh because they are our evil dictators thats why

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 02-18-2003 16:09

The signs look relatively good in Afghanistan? What is that guy smoking? We are still in Afghanistan...and things are not looking so 'rosy' there...

quote:
The war in Afghanistan has cost us $37 billion so far, yet there is evidence that terrorism may already be starting to regain its hold in that region. We have not found bin Laden, and unless we secure the peace in Afghanistan, the dark dens of terrorism may yet again flourish in that remote and devastated land.

--War: The Most Horrible Human Experience By Senator Robert Byrd, AlterNet





[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 02-18-2003).]

Dufty
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Where I'm from isn't where I'm at!
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 02-18-2003 16:44

Here's my all time favorite quote on the subject of war.

quote:
As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination.
When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular.
-Oscar Wilde


Can think of nothing more poignant to say.

[This message has been edited by Dufty (edited 02-18-2003).]

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 02-20-2003 09:41

Emps, I just ran across this and had to share: http://www.brain-terminal.com/articles/video/peace-protest.html

MW
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: 48°00´N 7°51´E
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 02-20-2003 13:56

fig: Sorry, came over a bit personal/biased.
What I meant is that I know from experience that when there´s a demonstration and there are problems, there are news sources which report that brutal protesters attacked peaceful policemen, and there are others who report it the other way round. The truth usually lies inbetween (although the protesters seldom have armored vehicles, horses, batons, shields, helmets and tear gas) but from your other comments I got the impression that you may tend to read/believe only the first kind of sources.
And Dubya is from Texas, so I don´t like the state

"Freedom of the press is limited to those who own one." - A. J. Liebling (1904 - 1963)

Fig
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Houston, TX, USA
Insane since: Apr 2000

posted posted 02-20-2003 18:20

np MW, no offense taken. in general i'm prob better informed and more open-minded than most, and as my views generally lean towards the conservative i'm very aware that the media only tends to report part of the story

chris

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