Topic awaiting preservation: A Soldier's response to the Dixie Chick's (Page 1 of 2)

I thought this was so good and righteous I had to share it .. I'm sure the debate on this subject is going on elsewhere on the board so I'm not trying to start a debate on this thread but if you want to debate on this thread your more then welcome and I would get involved

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Letter from radio station website in Lubbock, home of the Dixie Chick that spewed forth about our president:
Name: LT Layne McDowell
Date: 03/15/03
Time: 01:54:49 PM

Comment
An open letter to the Dixie Chicks:
Earlier this week, while performing in London, you stated that you were ashamed that our President is from your home state. I wonder if you realized how many Americans would be listening. This American was listening. This Texan is ashamed that you come from my state. I serve my country as an officer in the United States Navy. Specifically, I fly F-14 Tomcats off carriers around the world, executing the missions that preserve the very freedom you claim to exercise. I have proudly fought for my country in the skies over Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan without regret. Though I may disagree wholeheartedly with your comments, I will defend to the death your right to say them, in America. But for you to travel to a foreign land and publicly criticize our Commander in Chief is cowardice behavior. Would you have so willingly made those comments while performing for a patriotic,

flag-waving crowd of Texans in Lubbock. I would imagine not. How dare you pocket profits off songs about soldiers, their deaths and patriotism while criticizing their Commander in Chief abroad, even while they prepare to give their lives to ensure your own freedom of speech. Please ask yourself, what have you done to deserve that sacrifice? Do not try to justify your comments by claiming that you made them only because you care about innocent lives. Never once in our history have we committed troops to war for the purpose of taking innocent lives. We do it to protect innocent lives, even yours. If the world leaders of the late 1930's had the vision and courage of our present Commander in Chief, perhaps the evil men who caused the death of millions in WWII would have never had the opportunity to harm a soul. The potential loss of millions of lives in the future at the hands of today's evil men necessitate action. In a separate correspondence, I am

returning to you each and every Dixie Chicks CD and cassette that I have ever purchased. Never again will I allow my funds to support your behavior.
All you have done is to add your name to a growing list of American "Celebrities" who have failed to realize that they have obtained their successes on the backs of the American blue-collar workers such as our servicemen and women. To Natalie Maines: This Texan, this American will continue to risk his life to guarantee your freedoms. What will you do to deserve it?


.::. cEll .::. 513

That's the biggest load of bull I've ever heard...since when is the war in Iraq in any way, shape, or form about preserving US rights to free speech?

Also, criticizing Mr. Bush is not the same as criticizing the troops...far from it.

Just another example of a brain-washed, gung-ho idiot.


WebShaman

WS .. 9/11 .. that's all I have to say


.::. cEll .::. 513

Oh, yeah!

Yellow cats and geletin whales sing ragtime into the cereal box.

That's about as relevant as "9/11".
Iraq != 9/11
Iraq != opposition to US bill of rights
9/11 != opposition to US bill of rights
There is zero correlation.

John Ashcroft presents more an opposition to free speech in the US than Iraq.
John Ashcroft presents more an opposition to free speech in the US than the terrorists of 9/11.
Germany had more to do with 9/11 than Iraq did. Let's go bomb Germany next?!?! Ridiculous.
Pay attention to the details instead of the hype.

I don't see where he sates that the war in Iraq is about free speech. I actually don't see where he mentions the current war at all.

Nor does he mention criticism of the troops in Iraq today. He is just stating that he thinks the Dixie Chicks are guttless to slam the US while abroad rather then do it here at home, which they are perfectly free to do, and deal with the consequences of their statements (which is happening anyway). Sort of a disagree at home and show a unified front abroad. How can we expect to gain any respect when we are seen as falling apart from the inside out?

I do however agree that the wars the US has engaged in have nothing to do with defending freedom of speech (for us). The only way that would be true is if we were ousting an invader that wanted to take over our lives and strip our freedoms away.

GrythusDraconis
"I'm sick of hearing that beauty is only skin-deep. That's deep enough. Who wants an adorable pancreas?" - Unknown

quote:

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WS .. 9/11 .. that's all I have to say

--RammStein

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Hoboy. If you really believe, that Saddam had something to do with 9/11...maybe you would like to provide some proof, or facts?

Because quite frankly, there are no connections between the two. None. Zip. Nada. Nichts.

Osma Bin Laden is not Saddam. They are not the same person. They are not even related, and don't come from the same country. In fact, they both hate one another. In fact, we are doing Osama a favor, in getting rid of Saddam. In other words, getting rid of Saddam, is helping Osama.

Think about it.

How is fighting a conflict (which is starting to take heavy casualties) in Iraq, defending American rights? Those soldiers are not dying for the freedoms of Americans, but rather, they are supposed to be dying for the freedom of Iraqis...which I hope to god is the truth. Otherwise, these brave men and women in uniform are dying for...oil. And that is unacceptable. Period.

To GD...yes, that is seemingly true...until you think of why the Dixie Chicks criticized Mr. Bush...and that was because of this conflict. Also, though the person in question adroitly avoids mentioning the conflict directly, he does happen to hit a couple of reasons, being used to 'esplain' the conflict.

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 03-25-2003).]

I think you miss interpret my point on 9/11 .. on 9/11 we didn't think that our freedom could be theatened yet innocent lives were lost in within two hours .. and that wasn't a nuke .. or chemical weapon .. what if they decided to run those planes into nucular power generators .. or chemical compounds or oil fields in Texas etc etc .. why do we have to wait to live in fear .. in holding .. the Iraqi citizens already live in that fear .. do they deserve this .. no .. no one does .. freedom is not for those that fight and are warriors .. freedom belongs to everyone .. G-d blessed us with our own choices in life .. breathed life into us .. and no one man or military can force their "finger of G-d" on any one .. you think you would enjoy someone playing your G-d?


.::. cEll .::. 513

WS .. think really .. Saddam would give any suicide bomber 25k(American) to the family of the palestinian bomber to bomb israel .. what makes him different .. when would it be a matter of time for the french or russians to give him money for oil so that he can continue is plans on warheads and mass destruction? .. I certainly don't want to wait .. and be forced to ruled by a leader who like's to play G-d


.::. cEll .::. 513

In principle I agree...but Iraq is a 'little' mole hill, when compared to real dangers out there...such as North Korea, Iran, and China, for example.

I think that Mr. Bush has either his priorities screwed up (and frankly, the way the war is being waged...well, that is another ballgame), or has an ulterior motive.

As I havsaid, again and again, I'm not against a War in Iraq, but I am against a conflict. There is a big difference. I'm not prepared to sacrifice the lives of our men and women in uniform, without a just cause. And I certainly would not expose them to harm recklessly.

Well, back to the Dixie Chicks... I think they demonstrated their profound lack of character. This is clear because as soon as they realized most of their fans didn't agree with their words and now they are back pedalling. This means they're not prepared to stand by their words. (I was going to say convictions but I doubt they have any other than making money)

Generally people in their business want above all other things to be loved. They will do or say whatever they need to achieve this. This is why we shouldn't look to them or movie stars for pearls of wisdom about anything other than making good music and parroting lines from a script. Unfortunately for the Dixie Chicks they can't even do that.

. . : slicePuzzle

All I really have to say is - who the hell pays attention to things people like the dixie chicks have to say anyway??

It's not like they have anything relvant to say or any knowledge to base it on, so who really cares?

Aside from that (ok, so that *wasn't* all I had to say...), how does "9/11" have anything at all to do with the fact that the battle we are fighting right now has nothing to do with protecting americans' right to free speech?

There's simply no connection between the two subjects, except perhaps in the sense that since 9/11 we have - as a nation - supported acts that could be potentially dangerous to our own constitutional rights...

As far as this letter being "so good and righteous"... eh, whatever. It's a bunch or regurgitated thoughtless nonsense that's about as 'righteous' as the original statements by the dixie chicks.

~shrug~



[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 03-25-2003).]

I personally think that America needs more unity. Like, complete unity. We need to pick a leader and stand behind him without debate or dissent. You know, like... hmm, lemme think of a good example... Iraq! Yeah, Iraq's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. People in Iraq love their president. Heck, they re-elected him with 100% of the popular vote. That's not a single vote against Saddam Hussein! Why can't we have that kind of unity?

Well, at least we're getting there.

a vote out of fear and a vote out love are two completely different things.


imagine if you were one of those people who voted against saddam in his election, pretty easy to single out, wouldn't you say?

"Salting the back of a snail... My turkish prison is knowing that i fit in...."- Glassjaw

Sarcasm... that wonderful shadow that no seems to see.


EDIT - WS - To each his own, then.

GrythusDraconis
"I'm sick of hearing that beauty is only skin-deep. That's deep enough. Who wants an adorable pancreas?" - Unknown

[This message has been edited by GrythusDraconis (edited 03-25-2003).]

[This message has been edited by GrythusDraconis (edited 03-25-2003).]

Easy to single out? Oh I don't know. The second to last election carried Hussein to democratic victory by a whopping 96%.

Do the math... 100% minus 4% = 96%. I have a feeling that's exactly how it happened

[info]
I don't think an airplane would do anything to a nuclear power plant, they are pretty thick. Perhaps a huge plane, but they are pretty impenatrable.
[/info]

Just have to touch on this too -

quote:

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on 9/11 we didn't think that our freedom could be theatened

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Who didn't think so?

Quite frankly anyone who felt that way is an idiot, and the type of people who believed we were untouchable and who still beleive at this point that we're fighting in iraq for the benefit of the iraqi people and to defend our rights in our own country need some serious surgical help to remove their heads from their asses.

=)

What happened on 9/11 was predicted more times than I can count before that day. They even tried to take them down in 1993!!! Who do I blame? Primarily and directly the United States public. We simply looked the other way and the politicians who were governed by polling data were unwilling to do something we wanted nothing to do with. So now here we are after being forced to deal with it and we still want it to just go away. I'm so disgusted that I'm going to go stick my head in an oven.

GN: interestingly I was listening to a discussion on this on the radio:

quote:

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I don't think an airplane would do anything to a nuclear power plant, they are pretty thick. Perhaps a huge plane, but they are pretty impenatrable.

---

It is deemed to be one of the biggest risks either from someone crashing a plane into it or just firing mortars from a boat (they need to be by the water by and large). Technically all they'd need to do is break the tanks with the coolin water for the plutonium or some such (you don't need to rupture the reactor). The immediate aftermath would give up to 30,000 dead with the release of radiation (more than from Chenobyl) leading to over 1 million deaths in the long run.

There has been a lot of debate about puttin missile batteries alongside nuclear power stations but this would have meant that the final decision would have to be made in the field while scambling fighters and shooting down a jet would be done by someone high up the ladder of command (here in the UK it would probably be the PM). However, the scrambling and intercept times in the UK would mean that it would be virtually impossible to react in time.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

And other musical groups have been casualities of the war. BBC's Radio One have banned tunes that aren't upbeat or mention warlike subjects. Songs include:

Diamonds and Guns by the Transplants

Bandages by Hot Hot Heat

Now I'm familiar with both songs and as far as I can tell they aren't violent and the mention of things like bandages is purely metaphorical. It will probably help record sales

quote:

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He also confirmed that producers had been asked to play music with a "light, melodic" feel before and after news bulletins, especially if the reports contained distressing news.

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this is slightly more understandable:

quote:

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It is understood that other broadcasters have also adjusted their output. Certain music videos, which depict war, soldiers, bombs, executions and missiles, are reported to have been temporarily shelved by MTV.

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www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,921422,00.html
www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5944-622933,00.html - more details on what is in and what is out.
www.nme.com/news/104567.htm (wooooo this weeks NME has Avril Lavigne on the cover!!)

On MTV:
www.nytimes.com/2003/03/26/arts/music/26POPL.html?ex=1049259600&en=ada8e938d c4aab85&ei=5062

[edit: Oh and I had never heard of the Dixie Chicks until this recent flap. I think Michaal Moore's excellent Oscar speech summed things up:

"Any time you've got the pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, your time is up."

from:
www.suntimes.com/output/roeper/cst-ftr-rich25.html

more on it here:
http://inthesetimes.com/comments.php?id=133_0_7_0_C
http://washingtontimes.com/entertainment/20030325-70295718.htm

Always good for a quote ]

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Michael Moore... excellent... ok, that does it. I'm going for the wrists this time, forget the oven. Aggghhh!!!

[edit] Seriously, what he did was to line up enough publicity for his next book deal. And might I add what he did was disgraceful to the nth degree. He disgusts me. He has ZERO regard for the men and women giving their lives right now... umm... I guess I'm a little upset about that come to think of it. [/edit]

[This message has been edited by Bugimus (edited 03-26-2003).]

Rocker Kravitz Releases Peace Song with Iraqi Star
.

quote:

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Kravitz, who in 1991 put together an all-star ensemble to cover John Lennon (news)'s "Give Peace a Chance," said he had chosen to tie up with Rock the Vote "because of its strong stance with young people as defenders of free expression."

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Help me out here. Do you think he even considers the fact that "free expression" is prohibited in Iraq? Do you think he has any interest in any thing at all that could have changed that fact? I wonder whether he just never thinks about it, or whether he has and is hiding some secret method to remove the regime?

quote:

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and is hiding some secret method to remove the regime?

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Well obviously...he's going to kill them all with his terrible music =)

(or float them all away on his overinflated ego)

Lenny Kravitz!! There is a WMD (Worthless Massive Dickhead) - if Noriega thought he had things bad wait until we drop LK and some amps into the middle of Baghdad - shock and awe? You about shocking whore? It'll be all over in a day but the damage - Saddam should step down rather than force us to deploy such a terrible thing

And while we are on music the Beastie Boys have released a song 'In a World Gone Mad' which you can download free from their site:
www.beastieboys.com

I am a fan but well..... its not there best work.

Life released a song caled 'Bush and Blair' a while back but the lyrical content is 'unpleasant'.

Bugs: I'm sure Moore's book deal is in the bag (if anything that probably hurt it) what made me sick where all the celebrities who opposed the war being too afraid for their careers to make a protest and instead they flashed peace pins and dropped coded phrases into their speeches with a nod and a wink. It makes me sick because:

1. They weren't prepared to stand up for their beliefs.

2. That if they had then their career could have suffered.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

It all comes back to the Public. We bitch and whine and complain about how we can't change anything but it's the public POV that's driving all these idiots in circles. In order to be popular and make money you have to be liked by the public. Screw being... oh say, GOOD at your JOB. The public has gotten a skewed sense of how to change things and the politicians and celebrities are enforcing that. We bitch and whine, they say what we want to hear, then they go through the correct channels and get things done their way. The public needs to re-learn how to make things different in America, and believe me it doesn't involve bitching and whining. It involves work, sweat, blood, and tears. Not to mention reems of paper and gallons of ink.

America has lost sight of itself and what it was made to be. OF the people, BY the people. How long has it been since a celebrity or a politician has ACTUALLY been like everybody else? Or at the least an exceptional example of everyone else. How long has it been since people stood up and with one unequivocal voice stated their point of view about a law and changed it to what the people wanted, not what senators and/or representatives THOUGHT they wanted or should have wanted? And by this I don't mean just voting. I mean they actually got off their asses and made their own proposal, got the petitions signed, did the work to make the public point of view happen, and actually used the rules and laws put in place by the states to make their state what they want it to be.

America belongs to the people. The rules are in place... We just need to use them.

GrythusDraconis
"I'm sick of hearing that beauty is only skin-deep. That's deep enough. Who wants an adorable pancreas?" - Unknown

[This message has been edited by GrythusDraconis (edited 03-26-2003).]

So it sounds like we've reached a real consensus about their fecklessness. Jolly good show. LOL

Just to clearify Bugimus, do you also believe that those who issue opinions supporting the war are out to further their careers?

Jestah

I would say that all two of the ones who have out here in Hollywood have more to lose than gain since it is well known that anyone with that opinion in this town can get blacklisted. It may not be as overt as McCarthyism was, but I think it is safe to characterize it as an unspoken rule in the industry as a whole.

I would be interested if you could name very many who have come out in favor of the war. What do you think the chances of being able to count them on your fingers are?

And just so we are very clear. I am trashing the Chixie Dicks more for not standing by their words more than anything else. You don't see me disrespecting mobrul, WS, and others around here who hold *real* convictions on these issues. It's the feckless and shallow mentality of our entertainers as a general rule that disappoints me the most.

And I'm glad you jumped back into the mix here, it's been a while since I've seen you in this wing of the Asylum.

With all this talk about the celebrities that are slamming this war, I am suprised that you guys have not seen this...

Charlie Daniels Open Letter To Hollywood.

(for those of you who do not know, Charlie Daniels is a big country singer, lead singer for the Charlie Daniels band. Here in the US and he is a patriot.)

Check this out... http://www.talltexian.com/AmericaForever/id34.htm



The programmer's national anthem is 'AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH''

Wolfen's Sig Site

You know, growin' up a southern boy, I've always liked Charlie's music. That being said, Charlie Daniels has no more authority to speak on this issue than the Dixie Chicks. Neither have offered any sort of rational argument for their position. Both are spewing pathos in an effort to influence (or play upon) public opinion.
Let Charlie play his fiddle, and Natalie her guitar and we'll all be happier.

quote:

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Let Charlie play his fiddle, and Natalie her guitar and we'll all be happier

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Hah! Very well said. Though I could do very well without having to hear either of them play their music

Now, in addition, I take exception the notation that "Charlie Daniels is a patriot".

Does that mean that if you disagree with the current administration, or with a choice of going to a very shady war that is surrounded in controversy before it even begins, you are somehow *not* a patriot?

And yeah, I saw this letter a while back, and my reaction was about the same as it was to this soldier's garbage.



[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 03-31-2003).]

No DL...a patriot clearly loves his country...and not necessarily the current administration, or policy.

In fact, I believe that true patriots must stand against Mr. Bush...America was built on the principles he has managed to damage in his short term in office. I suspect it may take many decades, to clear the air of that...and god forbid, that the people elect him for a second term.

Well that was my point - I'm no less patriotic for believing that my government is a horrible thing.

I'm no less patriotic for not being a blind sheep following the popluar propaganda and spewing forth 'love it or leave' style slogans.

I'm no less patriotic for not promoting the "us against them" mentality.

It certainly doesn't make you more patriotic to have a 8 foot american flag flying from the back of your pick up truck everytime something happens.

It's sad when the moronic principles of over zealous sports fans painting their faces in the stands are applied to the support of your country.

Hmm...good point. Well said.

As a matter of fact, DL-44, it makes you MORE patriotic to be critical and speak your mind about what's happening. That's what America was founded on.

GrythusDraconis
"I'm sick of hearing that beauty is only skin-deep. That's deep enough. Who wants an adorable pancreas?" - Unknown

Sorry I lost track of this thread.

Bugimus - I'm not specifically speaking about celebrities, but people with opinions in general. It's kind of sickening that whenever someone makes some sort of anti-war remark they are labeled anti-American and doing it for personal gain. While you might turn a blind eye to it, there are plenty of conservatives out there who have MUCH more then a movie or book deal to gain from their position.

While men such as Michael Moore have dedicated entire lives to fighting for their beliefs, you rule it off as pandering to the crowd for a book deal. Men such as George W. Bush & Dick Cheney have a long history in oil and rewarding oil companies. Without presenting evidence to the American public, the Bush & Cheney Oil Co. have attacked the second largest oil reserve in the world and experts predict it will be occupied by Americans for years to come. Has it crossed your mind that rather then being pro-American, Bush is being pro-wallet?

Jestah

Actually Jester, it has crossed his mind, as I have brought this to the table many times before, and Bugs is not only aware of it, but also commented on it - but I guess he could explain it better than I.

Mind you, I'm not defending his opinion, but he does have a point to make (especially one about Oil).

To all those that against the war AND critisize our President:

Why don't you go and live in those countries (i.e. Iraq, Iran, Palestine)? Maybe you can learn the truth of America after you've lived in those countries for a year or so.

Nobody like the war but if we have to then support your President and most of all pray for our soldiers to get back here safely. The families of our dead soldiers hurt so much when their sons/daughters parished in the war but did you see them critisize our President?

I just got this in my email... Saddam and Dixie. I just had to share

That's a good one (cd cover of sadam and dixie). It would be great if Dixie receives one copy so that she'll know there's at least one person who would appreciate her critisism of our President. :-)