Topic awaiting preservation: my turn to be a 'fisher of men'..... (Page 1 of 1)

It's my turn to be a "fisher of men", so here are a few words from a confirmed Santa-ist......

I know that many of you used to believe, years ago. Then disillusioned by the many false Santas, you wandered away. It's not to late to come back, to be a believer again. Tell the truth now... don't you feel just a bit empty without the Jolly Old Elf in your life? Don't you miss listening for the pitter-patter of reindeer hooves on your roof? Isn't it worth one lousy letter to the north pole and a few cookies left by the fireplace so you can find something really cool in your stocking?

Ok, so you're supposed to be GOOD, all for a whole year; that one can be tough. But I've done it myself a time or two, so just about anyone can manage it.

Are you starting to doubt your disbelief? Starting to wonder if Santa is still watching you, and still making his yearly trip? Don't take my word for it, just go ask a child. Ask a kid about Santa and watch their eyes light up with excitement and love. What could be more real than that? That is why, even despite the occasional lump of coal, I believe in Santa.

Thanks norm for raising the subject and although I think I have told the story before I'll tell the story of how I was the truth about Santa at an early age:

When I was only 2 or 3 my father was enacting the ritual of dressing as Santa and distributing his 'gifts' to young Santaists (and if there any firmer believers in Santa than the children I haven't met them) but the traditional boots were too small and he had to wear his own shoes. As 'Santa' was distributing his 'gifts' I noticed that Santa was wearing my father's shoes and believing that Santa had killed my father and stolen his shoes. So my mother had to break the news to me about Santa not existing

~sniff~

signed,
an ex-Santaist

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Emperor: Now that you are an adult, you can understand that perhaps your mother saw how upset you were, and since she didn't have an explanation for the shoes(adults don't always have all the answers), she might have made up one of those little 'white lies' to calm you down.

Please don't be mad at her, she only told you this because she loved (loves) you so much and couldn't stand to see you so upset.

It's never to late to believe Emperor. As we speak Santa is making his list and checking it twice...

norm: Ahhhhhhhhh I see - rather than try and explain an entity that moves in mysterious ways she attempted to construct so kind of rational/plausible explanation which, while protecting the other children from inadvertently pointing one of His mysteries, had the effect of ruining my belief in Him. What a noble sacrifice - rather I loose faith than have the others introduced to the infinite mystery that is Santa too early!!

It all becomes clear..........

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Emperor: Yes, hindsite can make things so much clearer ... Mothers are by definition both noble and inclined to sacrifice.

I'm sure she meant to clear the whole thing up with you when you were old enough to understand, but it probably just slipped her mind.

Does this mean the world has another Santa-ist to help spread the good news? If so, let me be the first to welcome you back to the ranks of the believers!

norm: I don't know. I'm confused - this has been a lot to take in..........

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

You see no major difference between Jesus Christ and Santa Claus. Interesting.

It's cute, norm. But I wonder how instructive it might be to take this seriously and actually examine the differences or lack thereof. I mean, there are probably those who *seriously* think both are fairy tales. But then again there are plenty of people who think we never landed on the moon, go figure.

Milhouse landed on the moon? I'm there!

Wait... wrong quote.

Bugimus: Ok, if you want to take a perfectly silly thread and turn it serious, I'm game.

Where should we start? How about simularities?

We can probably ignore fact that Santa does his thing on the day that the birth of Jesus is celebrated, it's probably just a coincidence.

Jesus-
1) people make lots of money from commercializing him every day.
2) he is really nice, unless you get him pissed, (just ask the money lenders in the temple)
3) It makes people feel good to believe in him.
4) some very nice people believe in him.

Santa-
1) people make tons of money from commercializing Santa too, but only for about 2 months out of the year.
2) They don't get much nicer than the Man in Red, unless you've been naughty.
3)not only does it feel good to believe but it feels good when others believe, especially when they are much smaller than you and have so many years ahead of them to enjoy believing.
4) of course they are nice, who would risk the dreaded Coal in the stocking?

Ok, that was as serious as I could get. Does anyone else care to list some of the differences?

BTW- the reason I moved this to a new thread (I originally posted it in the "Cornered" thread) was because of the silliness. I did not want to offend anyone- see Jesus #4 above.


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had to remove my text-sig. It just doesn't fit this thread.
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[This message has been edited by norm (edited 04-16-2003).]

quote:

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was because of the silliness

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norm, I'm sorry. I *honestly* didn't realize that. I screwed up

[edit] can we just forget I got anal and go back to the silliness? [/edit]

[This message has been edited by Bugimus (edited 04-16-2003).]

Our Santa has a feather headress...how about yours?

I remember when I lost my faith in Santa Claus. I don't remember how, but I came to the conclusion that Santa Claus did not exist. It may have been something I saw, or something I heard, but one day I asked my mother if Santa Claus really existed, and she hesitated in answering.

That's the moment that I lost my faith, and I began to cry. Do you know why I cried, though? Because I thought I wouldn't get any more presents. Then, in an unintended flash of logic, I realized that Santa Claus did not suddenly disappear due to my loss of faith in him--if he didn't exist now, then he didn't exist ever, which means that if I got presents before i would most likely continue to get presents.

And that was the end of my crisis. No regret over the actual loss of Santa himself, or all that goes with him, just the presents. In the end, it was all about material possessions, and once that was secured nothing else mattered. To be honest with you, I have been haunted by and ashamed of this since my youth. Even now I still feel a twinge of shame in just relating this story.

Um, that was too serious, wasn't it.

Back! Back into the closet, you demons of my childhood!





www.liminality.org

our santa arrives on a surfboard wearing shorts and an aloha shirt

[edit -quick post there suho ]

[This message has been edited by velvetrose (edited 04-16-2003).]

quote:

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I mean, there are probably those who *seriously* think both are fairy tales

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~raises hand~

I just feel like being anal and serious for a moment too

I know that jesus existed, just as I know that St Nicholas existed. But I also know that jesus was no more the immaculately conceived son of god than St Nicholas was a jolly old elf with flying reindeer

.

Now, back to the topic at hand - my faith was squashed at about age 6 when I inadvertantly opened the closet in which my mother had hidden all the presents. I was very confused until my brother layed it all out for me.

I tried to spread the truth among my peers, but my efforts were stifled by the imperialistic parental heirarchy.

=(




[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 04-16-2003).]

Hehe

quote:

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imperialistic parental heirarchy.

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Yeah...of which you are now a part...and the cycle continues...

I don't actually have any memories of believing in Santa Claus...we were lucky if we received anything at all, on Christmas...and during the years with one step-father (he was jewish), we didn't even celibrate Christmas.

[anal-retentive modus]Jesus, Santa Claus...nice for children, but you have to grow up sometime...[/anal-retentive modus]

I have 2 older sisters and an older brother who thought nothing of ruining my belief in the Jolly Elf about the time I turned 5 or 6 or so... That, and the fact that Santa has the same handwriting as my mother probably had something to do with it...

Bodhi - Cell 617

WebShaman:
Feather Headdress... hmm. What about the beard, I just can't picture the two together. You know my dad is Jewish, and it never seemed to bother Santa one bit. He also overlooks my Agnostic tendencies.

velvetrose:
Santa on a longboard, catching a big wave, right-on! You know he is a Snowboarder too. I'm pretty sure I have spotted him carving turns in the backcountry, just outside of Anchorage.

WHAT??!!?? Santa has a beard? Since when?

Hehe...

Suho:

Please don't feel ashamed over a little materialism. That's just part of what it is to be human... we like THINGS.

Don't worry, it's OK, Santa understands. He is more concerned with weither you have tried to be good all year.

pssst I think Master Suho is really worried about all the shocktreatments that he has been abusing down in the basement

Oh...Master Suho...hehe...hi! What? No, we weren't talking about you, were we Norm? Nah, we wouldn't do that...really.

*runs*

I honestly don't remember when I stopped believing Santa Claus was real. I just remember how fond my memories are of Christmas and how much I am thankful to my parents for loving my childhood enough to play the Santa Claus game with me

[anal-retentive modus]
DL-44, you said "I know that jesus existed, just as I know that St Nicholas existed." Actually that was exactly what I meant to point out, that both were real people in history I was aiming for those who deny the historical Jesus. I suppose it is a lesser known fact that Santa was actually derived from that Asia Minor bishop of old.
[/anal-retentive modus]

Thanks for the encouragement, norm.

And as for you, WS... I think we need to have a little talk down in the basement...

And some of you may or may not find this interesting, but when we do finally have kids, I doubt my wife and I are going to tell them about Santa Claus. There is no Santa Claus in Korea... no Easter Bunny either, or Tooth Fairy, for that matter. And the kids seem to grow up just fine without them (barring all the stress that comes from living in a repressive, Confucian society, of course).

That's kind of sad, Suho. It's not wrong or anything, it's just that Santa Claus can be so much fun. But I can see how it would be virtually impossible to make it work in a society where he just wasn't.

Suho:

I think we can all agree that Santa is just one of the many faces worn by Love and Sharing. I know beyond the shadow of a doubt, that when you and your wife have a child (or children), the most important part ... the most true part of Santa, will always be there.

With my children, i give them presents from santa, then presents from(used to be mum and dad) now just mum, for the reason that Suho explained earlier. I find it funny though how parents push their children to see santa at christmas time with words " its santa he nice dont be afraid" when at the same time telling them all through the year "Never talk to strangers, never except anything from anyone". Lowrie is 5 in september and she hates santa, very nervous of him. Oliver justs sits on his knee to get the present and saffron.......well i haven't even taken her yet. She's 2 in november so maybe this year, but i'm expecting crying. They love the "Idea" of him, talk about him all through december, but to actually meet him they run a mile!

But norm if its any consolation i still believe in santa......I even catch myself sneaking a look up in the sky on christmas eve.......just in case.

P.S. I love that christmas coca cola ad, where the trucks roll through the town

Bugs: You think no Santa is sad... how about no Christmas at all? Christmas is not a traditional Korean holiday (as I'm sure you all knew), and it's not really that big an event even today. Yes, we do have Christmas service at church, and we do give presents, but it's a very subdued thing. There's no Christmas atmosphere like there is in the States and elsewhere.

My first Christmas in Korea was devastating. I remember walking around the streets of Seoul and feeling nothing. It didn't feel any different than usual, of course, but the fact that it was Christmas made the ordinary seem very empty. I remember that everything looked gray and dull, and I was extremely depressed.

I still have many memories of childhood Christmases. Despite my confession above, though, none of those memories involve presents I received: sitting in the living room on Christmas Eve with only candles to light the room, and listening to soft Christmas carols and hymns and smelling the scent of the tree; warm cookies straight from the oven, with a cold glass of milk, and the supreme effort it took to leave a cookie for Santa; waking up on Christmas morning to see the ground outside covered in snow; travelling down to Long Island to visit relatives, and gathering around the huge table for Christmas dinner...

Yeah, beautiful memories. But there's none of that now. I honestly do sometimes regret that my children will most likely not experience Christmas like I did. But there are other holidays, like New Year's Day (by the lunar calendar) and Chuseok (autumn harvest holiday), that I'm sure my children will look forward to. After all, it's about being together with loved ones. Like norm said, it's about love and sharing.

Of course, this doesn't change the fact that Christmas still depresses me terribly. This is why my wife and I have gotten into the habit of travelling during the winter. This past Christmas, for example, I spent the entire day on a third class train from Bangkok to Chiang Mai. That sucked for different reasons, of course, but at least there wasn't that yawning emptiness...

Right. Well, obviously Christmas is a bit of a sore point for me. So I think I'll try to forget about it for now and look forward to some Guinness tomorrow evening. Mmm... Guinness.

[Edit: You know, I really had no intention of writing all that when I first started. It was just going to be a simple little reply, but things just kind of slipped out. I'm OK, though--no need to worry about me.

]

[Edit2: I also realize that those feelings of emptiness have as much to do with the whole "lost childhood" thing as they do with a lack of Christmas. Not sure where that fits in here.]

[This message has been edited by Suho1004 (edited 04-17-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Suho1004 (edited 04-17-2003).]

Pink: So glad to hear from a believer! What a nice way to start my day. And your description of your childerns reactions (and predicted reaction) to Santa has brought back some very precious memories of my 3 daughters early Christmas's. I guess I get to spend the morning all misty-eyed......

May you continue to look to the sky and wonder. I think that makes the world just a little better place for us all.

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Santa: (just in case you're hanging around the Asylum)

I have decided to start my list a bit early this year. I know I haven't been completely good so far, but I have been trying awfully hard not to be naughty. So top of the list......

Please, Please, Please bring Soho some Christmas! It doesn't have to be an entire Christmas, just enough to bring a smile to his face, just enough to add a little more joy to his life.

Speaking of smiles... Could you please bring one of those shy little smiles to Pink's youngest as she sits on your knee for the very first time this year?

I will have to complete this list later as I have gotten more than a bit misty-eyed (again).....


hope things are good up North,
Norm

Although I normal wouldn't post in a forum norm has been such a good little elf and his early Chritsmas wishes are so unselfish that I really had to look in and say that I will try hard to make those wishes come true. Christmas in Korea is a tricky one and will need quite a long run up - I hope you haven't forgotten what the Japanese did to me a few years ago?



Keep the faith,

Santa



[This message has been edited by Santa (edited 04-17-2003).]

aaaaaaawwwww norm your so sweet i'll definitely let you know whether saffy cries or smiles.

hey santa! nice to see you around, hugs and kisses.

P.s. The pic just loaded. OMG they did that to you! my poor santa.......

[This message has been edited by pink (edited 04-17-2003).]

I still beleive Santa.

In fact, watching " The Santa Clause 2 " brought back some great memories of years gone by, ok hollywood cashing in on him, but i am sure he didnt mind.

I think its great for kids to have something to beleive in, but i think its better for adults too.


[This message has been edited by axleclarkeuk (edited 04-17-2003).]

you know around this year during christmas I was told in scholl to draw a poster for christmas photoshoot...guess what, by being a little creative I added santa's hat on the corner, then all of sudden my english teacher started to yell at me saying that I cant draw santas hats in this school and I had to immediatly remove it...

can you believe it? what kind of fanatics I am studing with?

ohh jolly molly, life is so hard

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Norm jumps up and down for joy....
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Hey everybody!!! Did you read that? Santa has made me an Elf!! Me... an Elf!


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Norm stops jumping up and down, after his knees tell him that at just under 200 lbs, he just might be one of the largest elves in existence.
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Axle: Yet another believer, right-on! Glad to hear it.


Ruski: Hang in there... This is how I handle Santa haters- Just smile and mention that no matter what, Santa will never forget them. Then I ignore them and softly hum "Santa Claus is coming to town" to myself. That usually gets them to at least smile.

congrats norm........ thats so cool!


Now explain to me what special powers elfs have......or don't have........ummm exactly what do the elfs do?