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vomithorder
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Hole
Insane since: Nov 2002

posted posted 05-23-2003 16:53

The Big bang theory states that out of an infinit mass, of an infinitly small size, giving it an infinitly high density out of nowhere merged with an infinitely large amount of energy and "kaboom" it expanded. Now there has been research on antimatter. we have actually slamed an atom of antimatter into an atom of matter in a particle acclerator. They neutralized each other releaseing a high amount of energy. basicaly there is an element of antimatter for every element of matter. this is logical because if not then there is no big bang. we have discovered as we look farther and farther in to space (which is farther and fatrher back in time) that we see the early development stages of the universe. suggesting that a big bang must have occured. upon the time of the big bangs occurence it would have just caved back in at the very moment it hapened because there is nothing stoping the newly created antimatter from joining with their newly created counterparts of matter. The only way this could be avoided is by haveing an element of inconformity existing before the occurence that throwed the naturally symetric expansion off so that it would lose its symetry and disrupt the natural attraction of these atoms. This element of inconformity is then the creator of the physics of our universe. Is this God?

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 05-23-2003 17:08

vomithorder: I don't think we areally know enough about the Big Bang to be that certain.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

vomithorder
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Hole
Insane since: Nov 2002

posted posted 05-23-2003 17:11

absolutley not we must have faith that is what god wants from us!

Orienos
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Dans le ciel, avec les étoiles...
Insane since: May 2003

posted posted 05-23-2003 17:13

God works in many ways, and people accept these understandings differently. Thus the basis for the numerous religions in the world today. God is everything, and i suppose that antimatter is an acceptable theory to prove his existance.

To really answer the question "Is this God," you would have to define what you consider to be god. Is this a christian god, the christain triune god? Is this a wiccan god, or just the creator? Like I said, god works in many ways, and means different things to different people. I am sure that you could convince a few atheist scientists with your claim. I accept this claim as a viable link between science and religion. It very well could bridge the gap.

You could define god as the creator. If this is your definition, then certainly god was present in the big bang, for there had to be something to make the small condensed matter explode, some sort of disruption. In the streatch of the word, this is god. Even if this god was antimatter.

For everyone else, how would you define God? Could he possibly be the antimatter of which vomithorder is speaking?

Moon Shadow
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Rouen, France
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 05-23-2003 17:16

From what I've read about Big Bang, there was no "symetric expansion". The Big Bang was the meeting of material and anti-material. Everything should have disappeared in it, but somehow material won over anti-material and began expanding in this universe. When the Big Bang happened, at that precise moment, anti-material simply ceased to exist in our universe (but we can recreate it now). There was no "element of inconformity"... But I have to agree, this whole thing is still very unknown, we are speculating on mere hypothesis and not proven facts.

Anyway, I don't think religion and science mix on this point. Christians believe God created the world and everything in it, I don't think they trust in Big Bang.

vomithorder
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Hole
Insane since: Nov 2002

posted posted 05-23-2003 17:20

this element of incomformity is what made matter overcome there must have been an element of incomformity to do this without it there would have been nothing to turn the tables one way or the other

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 05-23-2003 18:14

So....after millions of years of evolution, thousands of years of scientific resesarch and increased understanding of the world around us....

You want to go right back to the caveman mentality that says "whatever we don't understand is god"?




Moon Shadow
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Rouen, France
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 05-23-2003 21:07
quote:
this element of incomformity is what made matter overcome there must have been an element of incomformity to do this without it there would have been nothing to turn the tables one way or the other



If I understand well (sorry I still have some problems with English, you sentence is quite strange ), you are saying without this supposed element both material and anti-material would not have interected with each other ? Ha sorry but I can't agree... A particular characteristic of physic is that random events can happen everytime, everywhere. Some physicians like to call that chaos. For example, sometimes some moleculs act like if they were other moleculs with other properties. From what I know, it happened the same for the Big-Bang : a particle, somehow, did something differently, and that resulted in our universe ruled by material... but this event obeyed a law, a law called chaos. This is not..an incomformity, this is a natural law. In my opinion, there is nothing divine or external in it... But I'm just a scientist student

Dracusis
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Brisbane, Australia
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted posted 05-23-2003 23:23

You spent 220 odd words baffling on about scientific facts to try and prove god's existence by saying 'we don't actually know why the fuck that happened'...?

Damn, someone give this guy a medal.


vomithorder
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Hole
Insane since: Nov 2002

posted posted 05-24-2003 03:08

OK folks I think im gonna have to explain antimatter a bit more. In a normal atom you have an electron with a negative charge, a neutron with a neutral charge, and a proton with a positive charge. in an atom of antimatter the electron has a positive charge, the proton has anegative charge, I dont know about the neutrons charge, and all are givein different names. they attract each other and when the collide a ton of energy is released. The reaseon for the chaos of random activity is because of this element of incomformity. with out this element every thing would have scattered symetrically from the center of the blast. the natural electromagnetic and gravitational pull would have brought them back just as symetric as they went. the element of incomformity is necesary to through this symetry off. giving you random chaos or in physics terms our law of an ever increaseing state of intropy.

Gilbert Nolander
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Washington DC
Insane since: May 2002

posted posted 05-24-2003 03:54

consider the fact that all the particles are not going to have the same exact mass, so therfore different particles will have a more powerful eletromagnetic pull, thus causing certain particles to appear to be behaving incomformititily.


.quotes.

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 05-24-2003 03:54

Yup, I think we all understand what antimatter is...that's not in question VH....


{edit - gilbert snuck one in on me....}

[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 05-24-2003).]

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 05-24-2003 03:57

Now explain Uncle Matter.......

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Taobaybee
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Feb 2003

posted posted 05-24-2003 05:00



Fig
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Houston, TX, USA
Insane since: Apr 2000

posted posted 05-24-2003 21:07
quote:
Anyway, I don't think religion and science mix on this point. Christians believe God created the world and everything in it, I don't think they trust in Big Bang.



then you would be mistaken there are a lot of extreme fundamentalists that take things at absolute face value and cringe at even the mention of the big bang or evolution, but considering the creation of everything is detailed in only 30-some odd verses in the bible there's absolutely no reason the world couldn't have been created via the big bang. those that deny the possibility for science and christianity to mix are generally somewhat unknowledgable in one or the other.

chris


KAIROSinteractive

Sanzen
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Raleigh, NC
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 05-24-2003 22:42

I've said it once, i'll say it again....

the BIBLE may not say that evolution/the big bang couldn't have existed... but SCIENCE says that GOD did NOT create the world and its inhabitants. Its not a two way street. If you say otherwise, then you're not a christian.

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 05-24-2003 22:53

Sanzen - can you show me where and how science says that god did not do all these things that science has discovered?

I very seriously doubt it.

Now, don't get me wrong - I personally hold it as fact that there is no such thing as god. But I certainly can't prove it, and nothing I've ever read can either...

vomithorder
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Hole
Insane since: Nov 2002

posted posted 05-25-2003 00:01

exactly! you need faith god only wants those who are faithful and not those who change sides when they dont know enough to have things absolutly proven to them

vomithorder
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Hole
Insane since: Nov 2002

posted posted 05-25-2003 00:05

as for the particles of differing mass. They all came from a single mass. when they were concived they were so symetricaly! the only way they could be done so otherwise is through the aid of another element of inconformity. the key to all of this is none of this would be without the element of incomformity to throw the perfect symetry off.

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 05-25-2003 01:16

Amen DL...well said.

And Vomithorder...look up Guthries Grand Guess...it's pretty interesting...

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 05-25-2003 01:31

http://www.discover.com/apr_02/featguth.html

Dracusis
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Brisbane, Australia
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted posted 05-25-2003 02:28

Faith, who said anything about Faith?

Bloody Christians, always assming that anyone mentioning the word God refers to their religion. Ya'll really need to stop doing that, it confuses me to no end. If someone mentiones the word God without a context the most you should assume is a general "Higher Power".

Fig
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Houston, TX, USA
Insane since: Apr 2000

posted posted 05-26-2003 01:19

drac, i think the christian God being discussed is due to moon shadow's comments where he directly addressed the christian faith.

and sanzen, feel free to say whatever you want to say again and again, but i completely disagree with you. i'd be interested to hear why you think this tho.

chris


KAIROSinteractive

vomithorder
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Hole
Insane since: Nov 2002

posted posted 05-28-2003 02:13

Immediately after the Big Bang the universe was tremendously hot as a result of particles of both matter and antimatter rushing apart in all directions. As it began to cool, at around 10^-43 seconds after creation, there existed an almost equal yet asymmetrical amount of matter and antimatter. As these two materials are created together, they collide and destroy one another creating pure energy. there was an asymmetry in favor of matter. As a direct result of an excess of about one part per billion, the universe was able to mature in a way favorable for matter to persist. As the universe first began to expand, this discrepancy grew larger. The particles which began to dominate were those of matter. They were created and they decayed without the accompaniment of an equal creation or decay of an antiparticle. There has to have been an element of inconformity to offset the balance so that the rate of our universe's favoring matter could exist



vomithorder
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Hole
Insane since: Nov 2002

posted posted 05-28-2003 02:30

that element of incomformity is god by a more scientific definition a powerful being for it seems to independently act as it choses. That element would have had to of existed before the big bang or in more understandable words not as a result of the big bang. For if it was a result it would have an equivelant antimatter atom. this would undermine the nature of it compleatly leaving nothing to disproporion the two types. the element could not have existed after the big bang because the big bang would not have been a sucess and would have collapse just as it expanded or in other words never happened at all. However if it existed before the big bang occured then it must have been a part of this infinetly dense mass becouse of the natural attraction of mass. this leaves us with one other option that this element was created at the same time when the big bang occured. This though is irrational because their is no logical creator because the universe is nothing but a reation to the previous actions if not then what is science good for? this element has no creator! what about the previous example of the element existing prior to the big bang. this could not have coexisted with the infinitly small matter. that too is irrational but we might have the tendancy to accept it both of these.

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 05-28-2003 07:54

Vomithorder, are you quoting directly from a source? If so, could you perhaps post the source?

Gilbert Nolander
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Washington DC
Insane since: May 2002

posted posted 05-28-2003 15:05

Perhaps after the big bang there was antimatter, matter, and also this element of inconformity you refer to. Why does there only have to be matter and antimatter? Could not an element of inconformity have been created from the big bang. I mean, after all, it is the big bang.

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