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Fey
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Netherlands
Insane since: May 2003

posted posted 06-10-2003 16:06

There's quite a few topics here about religion, and in the short time that I've been a regular visitor here, the amount has increased with about 3. Now, for some reason everywhere I come, either on the web or off, people eventually will start to debate religion. I was wondering if you people also noticed an increase in debates / discussions / conversations about religion. I'm already on the train of thought that god is stalking me, and I'd like to avoid being put in a nuthouse ... one virtual Asylum is perfectly fine by me but IRL those restraining jackets mess up my figure
But probably it's just because there is an increase, with all this terrorism here and holy wars there, the start of a new millenium and still people live poor and homeless...what say you?




Gilbert Nolander
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Washington DC
Insane since: May 2002

posted posted 06-10-2003 16:41
quote:
I'm already on the train of thought that god is stalking me, and I'd like to avoid being put in a nuthouse


Perhaps God is stalking you because you have something that you need to acomplish or perhaps start doing that you have not yet noticed, and God is trying to point you in the right direction.


.quotes.

Fey
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Netherlands
Insane since: May 2003

posted posted 06-10-2003 19:29

perhaps that was just a joke But it's like religion's become a fashion trend.

Gilbert Nolander
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Washington DC
Insane since: May 2002

posted posted 06-10-2003 19:58

Perhaps God is speaking through your jokes.

Moon Shadow
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Rouen, France
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 06-10-2003 20:57

That's right Fey there was a good number of religion topics lately... Not that I don't like discussing of such topics, but it was very noticeable. One of the possible reason is that the war in Iraq is (not really) over, so there are less discussions about the world's politic. Furthermore, I think the "usual" philosophy topics haven't vanished, they were just slightly transformed in more religious questions. I can give you an example : I remember a topic asking if God created us purposely.. instead of asking if there was a goal in human's existence.

Like I've said I don't have a problem with it, and as a community everyone has the right to talk about what they like - Christians among other ones. It's true that the recent grow is strange. Since the medieval ages humans trust less and less in religions (mostly because of science and technology inventions), but it seems that in our highly technologized (sp?) world people feel a regain about religions. My opinion is that religion brings "peace" to a certain type of persons. In our more and more complex world, religion brings a healthy way fo life and peaceful opinions about the world. I am not saying it is good. It is another form of blindness... Like every blindness, what we can't see do not annoy anymore...

With the stress of the day to day life, I believe people seek a new way to live peacefully. And they only found religion. Religions help to bear this world, but they certainly won't help solving its problems.

jade
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: houston, tx usa
Insane since: Mar 2003

posted posted 06-10-2003 21:45

MS

I beg to differ with you on blindness. If you can look at it this way. We really don't choose God. God chooses us thru a revelation. Sort of like God shows up and we either choose to recgonize it as God or not. At a certain point in time we my see who God really is and know. I notice in life that persons who are godless, usally find God when they go thru a hard time in their lives, be it tragedy, sickness, loss of family, or their terminal ill, etc. For example like prisoners in jail or on death row. They always find God. I think because they need a frienship in God. And that is the core of what Christianity is all about. Religion is definitely not a crutch, at least for me it isn't. Its solace, peace and good feeling of well being of of the soul, even if your really physically sick. Plus, per statistics, people of faith usally are healthier than godless persons. In this way, religion is good for you, health wise.



[This message has been edited by jade (edited 06-10-2003).]

Fey
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Netherlands
Insane since: May 2003

posted posted 06-11-2003 14:09

I thought the change also might have something to with the waves between ratio and mysticism. Renessaince, Enlightenment, Sturm und Drang, Romantics - that people are obsessed with intellect for a while, then go back to the romance of mysticism, then discard that for science again.
Now I had this in literature, but completely lack the knowledge to explain this in english ^^


Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 06-11-2003 20:14

I couldn't disagree more with you on this, MS. I don't view my religion as just a way to pacify my fears. It does do that, but it does so much more and I find the idea that it is just a cruch to be terribly short sighted. It logically does not follow that because some people use religion as a cruch that therefore all religion is a cruch.

Fey, there is no doubt that when the reality of our mortality becomes more clear to us, that we all instinctively reach out to something higher for help. Whether you believe it's built in by God or simply an evolutionary trait, the fact that we all have this tendency is undeniable. I think that is why you will find an increase in these discussions when the times in which we live are more trying.

But I must be honest, we've been discussing religion here in this place for as long as I've been here and I really didn't notice any change. Oh, and I think God is most certainly stalking you

. . : slicePuzzle

Fey
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Netherlands
Insane since: May 2003

posted posted 06-11-2003 20:23

Bug: he probably sent me here in the first place to find my spiritual solace ... *cough* .. or could it have been to learn the wonders of Photoshop. If I have any god, it's that program ^^

The thing thatw e reach out for something higher might also be a side effect of this beautiful human trait: imagination. I think that if there's anything that drives us humans, it might very well be imagination. Without that, where would our gods be? Would they even exist?

*argh* it is SO tempting. It is such an inspiring subject to discuss. Might as well change my nick to Preacher


Moon Shadow
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Rouen, France
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 06-11-2003 21:12

Jade & Bugimus :

The term I used, "blindness", was maybe a bit exagerated, I admit it. It's due to the fact I can speak as finely as I do in French, so forgive me for that please.

I can't really agree with what you said about people in difficulty "finding" God. The persons who are godless and in difficulty always seek a new comfort, like you said for prisoners a "friendship". They seek a new comfort because they suffer pain. Often when people is so much desperated the only "escape" they find is religion. I do not say it is bad. Religion gives an appreciable peace, and healthy views about the world. I largely prefer hearing religious views about Evolution than a deep ignorance, and I also prefer seeing people in harmony with their feeling than millions of persons thinking the solution to their problems is taking more anti-stress chems before going to bed.

I don't see Religion (with a big R) as a cruch, this is not exactly what I meant. Religion is certainly not a cruch, and yes it is much much more than a simple peace feeling. What I wanted to say is that people (like in this case), nowadays, mostly only find it in religion. They do not seek other enlightements, they do not embrace every feelings of the religion. They just seek a way to escape their sorrow, a temporary solution not entirely accepted. Of course I do not say it is true for everyone, but I think most of people act like that.

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 06-11-2003 21:55

First of all I want to apologize for misspelling the word "crutch". I hate when that happens.

MS, I think on that clarification of your point we can agree. People do find solace and comfort in religion. I just don't want people to think that it is only good for that. I must emphasize that I practice my religion because I actually think it is based in reality and fact. If I didn't, I would want someone to bash me over the head with this quote from a very intelligent man:

quote:
It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
--Carl Sagan
WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 06-13-2003 11:36

Actually, I lost my religion, when I was 'in the difficult time'. After an initial adjustment phase, my life has never been better...no more illusions.

I believe in myself, and the truth around (and in) us. I view life as an adventure, and a learning experience. I have no real religion, nor do I need something that 'comforts' me...I prefer brutal reality.

God stopped stalking me long ago...it's pretty nice.

jade
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: houston, tx usa
Insane since: Mar 2003

posted posted 06-13-2003 13:32

Web

From past post, it seems like it may have been in the war. What happend to make you lose faith?. Only answer if you want to share.

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 06-13-2003 14:20

Well, death and destruction (especially on that scale) really hit home...especially considering my part in it.

Basically, how does one then reconcile that, with what one is? After very deep soul-searching, I came to the conclusion, that this dark side of me was a part, and integral part of me, now. I had to accept that...and I have.

A deep, inside look at the stark side of reality...we are what we are. I saw many innocents die...and no reasons for it. No God, no loving God, would be a part of that. But what really got to me, was the reaction, from those who sent me there, to what I had done : pat on the back, good job, blah, blah. Even the people that I met, friends and family, were wholly proud of my 'acheivements'...

Killing is good? Hmmm...yeah, as long as it is war. Examining the Bible, there has been a lot of war...and supposedly, God was on the side of the Hebrews in their wars...

Just doesn't jive with a 'loving' God at all...in fact, it has nothing to do with God...it was a Mankind thing, really. A human thing. This got me thinking...

After this eye-opener (the willingness to look beyond my belief), I started questioning right and left, and demanding answers...but there were mighty few of those to be found. So I set out to find my own...and promptly left God behind...

Lately, I've been researching more of my own peoples beliefs...they are interesting...and have been discovering, that wisdom is not a patented thing...certainly that which is in the Bible, is also to be found elsewhere...that has been my experience.

Leaving God behind, made my life so much easier, and it was like a load off my shoulders. I then shouldered the responsibility of taking my own life into my hands...and going forwards. I have never regretted it.

jade
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: houston, tx usa
Insane since: Mar 2003

posted posted 06-13-2003 14:56

If you don't mind, I would be interested in knowing of your peoples beliefs. I for one see a beauty and wisdom in the nature of what my limited understanding of it is. Couldn't you also see it as a handiwork of God?



Gilbert Nolander
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Washington DC
Insane since: May 2002

posted posted 06-13-2003 15:15
quote:
Webshaman - No God, no loving God, would be a part of that.



Like you said, humans create war, so why seperate yourself from God?

[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 06-13-2003).]

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 06-13-2003 16:09

Because I am human, and not God. That which I am, is human, nothing more, nothing less. It is more important for me to be this, than to be something that I am not. That also means accepting all that is terrible, and all that is good, within.

I feel (and fimly believe) that if Mankind would start accepting responsibility for itself, rather than laying the responsibility for itself in the lap of a God, that we would make much swifter progress as a race, in getting a grip on such terrible things like war, poverty, etc.

My question back is, why does anyone need God, a god, or gods?

Jade - no, I see it as a natural process. No God involved...why must God, a god, or gods have to be involved?

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 06-13-2003).]

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