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NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

posted posted 09-29-2003 19:46

We're not talking anything internet related here. Talking about the land you own... you in the u.s.a. that is.

Caught this on 60 minutes last nite and have to admit it took me back a step or two....

In a nutshell 'emminent domain' boils down to this;

I own the land and house or business. Local gov't can come along and buy that land at whatever price it (the gov't) determines to be fair...and then turn around and sell my property to another business. We're not talking "expropriation" for roads schools or hospitals.. we're talking about forcing me to sell to you and then you sell to someone else who apparently will provide a bettter tax base than what you've been paying for say.... 30 years or more.

I could not beleive it. I would have thought... in my ignorance... that anything even remotely close to such a concept would go against virtually the entire us constitution. So much for the "land" of the free. Astonishing!

I'm now trying to find out if there is something similar in Canada.

[fixed typo's]



[This message has been edited by NoJive (edited 09-29-2003).]

warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-29-2003 20:06

Wouldn't surprise me if that's true. I can't say for sure if it is.
But I am familiar with some of the bad things that the various "alphabet agencies" have committed and continue to do so. Agencies like the FDA and IRS just to name two. Nasty abuse on citizens.

Lacuna
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: the Asylum ghetto
Insane since: Oct 2002

posted posted 09-29-2003 20:39

yes, that's a nasty law.
about7-8 years ago in missoula, montana they exercised that law. they wanted to expand a main road from 2 lanes to 4 lanes. there were homes one both sides of the road. there weren't many people who wanted to sell their homes, obviously. the city took the land, expanded the road and resold the land to busiesses. on the whole, it was a good move for the city....but still a very shitty thing to do.
plus the price that people were given for their homes weren't anywhere near what they could have been sold on the open market for.

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Gilbert Nolander
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Washington DC
Insane since: May 2002

posted posted 09-29-2003 20:59

They need to just start a Gov't Oganization called BASTARDS.
Bad Ass Takers After the Regular Dudes in Society


.quotes.

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 09-29-2003 21:25

GN: thats BATARDS

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

GrythusDraconis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: The Astral Plane
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 09-29-2003 22:02

yes, it's a real law. It is my understanding that reasons need to be given for such a move. My understanding is that people/companies have to be given fair value for the building and property according to the average rate for that type of property. This of course ignores the value of the location of one commercial property over another location of commercial property. We had this happen here in Minnesota and the company that was forced to move, Walser biuck and Cheverolet I believe, sued the City of Richfield for not specifying it's reasons and for catering to Best Buy to get the "big" money into town. So now Best Buy is in place, and half the size it was supposed to be. Walser is in a nice new shiny building and Richfield is going to be absorbed by bloomington, Minneapolis and Edina in the next five years. I'm thinking that Eminent domain doesn't always work to the city/gov'mts advantage.

NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

posted posted 09-29-2003 23:12

"Expropriation" in some cases.... I can accept. Schools hospitals roads and the like... not that I like it..but I'll accept it... but I cannot get my head around the concept GD describes. Is it not the ultimate in 'bullying?

And for the canucks who might be lurking while 'we' might not use the same words... the same situation, possible situation, exists here.

From a friend who knows of these things: "ALL land is bought and disposed of by private individuals at the mercy of the Crown.

That is, the Crown (Canada/province) owns ALL the land and merely allows people to treat it as though they owned it. Theoretically the Crown could come to your house and deprive you of your ownership, but not without good cause and some compensation."

I'm like a bear with a sore ass with this sort of stuff at the moment. We are very likely going to be forced to sell our house (in few years) because of a sewer project that will more than double our taxes. I'm some kinda pissed! I'm off to council tonite to hear the latest 'technical' aspects. I'm pissed.... oh did I say that already...that I'm pissed!! =)

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 09-30-2003 02:55

over here in the merry ol' land of Oz, it's known as 'compulsary aquisition'. It would have ot be one of the biggest cracks of shit ever to be handed down from any government. "Hi! We've let you entirely pay off your mortgage so you now and bought the deed of your house nad your land from us and own it outright, it is no longer in any way Government property (see note 1).

However, we want to put a new bypass through here, so, after your years of hard slog to pay off a gigantic loan with very crappy interest rates, we're now going to take your house and land from you for a fraction of what they're actually worth...why for a fraction of what they're actually worth? Becuase we can! Becuase we want to be able to say ot people at the next election 'We cut spending by X amount...Hurrah!'. So, here's an eviction notice, you can get that framed, and you now have 5 days to get the fuck off what used to be your property and is now ours, thank you!"

Note 1: Under Australian Residential Legislature you can own the house, everything that's on top of the land and all pipes buried under the ground, excepting the telephone line (you rent that), the water mains (you don't even want to touch that) and the gas mains (ditto). The actual dirt of the land from 1/2 a foot downwards is not however yours, and if you strike gold in your backyard, it's probably best not to tell anyone about it, becuase the gold is not legally yours, and once you've found it, your house and your land are no longer oyurs either. They immediatley become government property, and there is absolutley nothing you can do about it.

Moon Dancer
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: The Lost Grove
Insane since: Apr 2003

posted posted 09-30-2003 06:11

Hmm... That's interesting Skarjj. So does that mean if you have potatoes or carrots, (which happily grow greater than a half foot down) they belong to the government? ; ) In the US when you purchase property, you can also buy the mineral rights to it, (I'm not entirely sure how the process works...I think it raises your taxes though) That's how several Minnesotans became independently wealthy: by purchasing all the land that the iron ore was found under. But unless you have the mineral rights, whatever is found under your property is not yours.

Here's another great word to go along with eminent domain: easement. I love that one... You own the property up to the street, but a strip of land from the street to 3 feet in that the city can do whatever they want to with. Have a sidewalk! No? How about a tree! Oh wait, we don't like that tree so we'll just cut it down for you and put in this lovely curb instead. :P

Sigh... I suppose we could all be happy that the Vogons haven't invoked eminent domain for a new hyperspace bypass... yet.


Arthemis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Milky Way
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted posted 09-30-2003 14:11

well, there's always been the thought current (which latin expression i can't remember right now) that says that the only thing that always has an owner is land. Well then, that pretty sums it up.
Native americans said the land is borrowed from their children. Europpeans kicked their ass.

Europpeans are still there, now kicking each other.

GrythusDraconis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: The Astral Plane
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 09-30-2003 21:15
quote:
Have a sidewalk! No? How about a tree! Oh wait, we don't like that tree so we'll just cut it down for you and put in this lovely curb instead. :P

And we'll charge for that curb even though you didn't ask for it. (Consider it punishment for having that tree you didn't plant in OUR easement on YOUR land).

jdauie
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Missoula, MT
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 10-01-2003 07:13

* jumping back a few posts *

Lacuna:
Despite the expansion of Reserve Street from 2 lanes to 4, the traffic is just as bad (if not worse) now here (Missoula, MT, that is).

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