Topic awaiting preservation: If you move to the US from Africa you're African American right? (Page 1 of 1)

WRONG
http://www.theomahachannel.com/education/2783824/detail.html

Just after that Georgia stupidity......I thought I won't hear anything that stupid again for awhile.....

all I can say is this again....there is something really wrong with the world today....either people becoming more stupid, or I am just starting to read more news....



[This message has been edited by Ruski (edited 02-01-2004).]

I see both sides of this. I think it could best be solved by someone saying to the white South African, "look, we know you're from Africa, and you're an American -- but the term 'African-American' is an invented term used solely as a euphemism for 'black.' It doesn't mean what it looks like it means. That's stupid, we admit it! But we'd like you to play along with our little fiction, because it was established with the best of intentions. We want to avoid offending anyone, including you -- but if you challenge one euphemism, we'll just have to create another one that's just as confusing."

In fact, "African-American" (which definitely means "black," even though the words look like they ought to have a broader meaning) is already replaced in many circles by "person of color" (which also means "black," again despite a broader apparent meaning).

I say, why not just shrug and let the words mean what people want them to mean? If people want to avoid saying the word "black," let's give them a way of doing that. Otherwise, race relations as a whole will suffer, because believe it or not, there are people out there who are offended by anything that isn't a politically-correct euphemism. "African-American" and "person of color" aren't insulting to anyone except white people who are afraid of reverse discrimination; "black," "Negro," and so forth are more risky (although of course anyone who objects to being called "black" probably needs an attitude adjustment as well).

Cell 1250 :: alanmacdougall.com :: Illustrator tips

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"African-American" and "person of color" aren't insulting to anyone except white people who are afraid of reverse discrimination

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I can't imagine that many true Africans would appreciate the association. I have to assume that the majority black Americans have very little in common with people from Niger for example, though I don't know that I've ever met anyone from Niger. Heh, can you imagine Jesse Jackson trying to pass himself off as an African? Ah. . . I can sleep well now with that amusing little picture in my head.


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[This message has been edited by SPyX (edited 02-01-2004).]

I read about this one last week sometime.

I personally found it hilarious...

When political correctness backfires, you just have to laugh.

This kid has more right to be called African-American than many black kids out there, many of whom know little or nothing of their native land.

The definition of an African American, unfortuntely, is a "Black American of African ancestry". That is discrimination against white africans, what are they then? I mean come on. Why the hell can't we all just be plain Americans, without all this nonsense.

And what the hell is up with "African American Student of the Year" anyway? Why the separation, why not just "Student of the Year?" It is this separation factor that keeps racism alive and well.

Ruski, people are getting more stupid.

I think these kids made a very good point. Using the term African-American when what you really mean is "black" is ridiculous. Not everyone from Africa is black -- and get this -- not everyone who's black is from Africa.

You make a huge assumption about someone's heritage when you refer to him as African-American. A black man who moves to America after having lived his whole life in Germany is not African-American and probably wouldn't appreciate your assuming he's African just because he's black.

Additionally, how do you know the black woman you saw at the store isn't just here on vacation? She may not even be American.

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And what the hell is up with "African American Student of the Year" anyway?

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EXACTLY! It's insulting to the very core. They do this sort of condescending nonesense in corporate America too.

But we live in a very imperfect world and I think Perfect Thunder's first paragraph is *very* well put. We all know what is meant by the term and we all know how flawed it is. Pointing it out like these students have done was to prove what, exactly?

. . : slicePuzzle

Well, I don't care what the world goes and does, there is not one bit of politically correct blood in me, and there never will be. I dislike the mincing of words. If you're black, you're black. If you're white, you're white. Big deal, people are too freaking emotional anymore, and over what? Words. We have to rename everything so nobody's 'feelings' get hurt, only causing confusion and misleading ideas.

I think we all have it too good nowadays and have nothing better to do. Notice the only time humans really pull together is when catastrophe strikes, really sad.

I don't think it really proves anything to point it out, just gives attention to the flaw that is there. Whoever coined these phrases of political correctness was not thinking. People like Hillary C*****n and such I would guess. I'm sorry, things like this just irk me.

Ramasax

this reeks of discremination....
Has anyone ever heard of an "Anglo-saxon student award" or "white student award?" Why should there be "african american award" in the first place?

I know this has the almost inevitable probability of at least one of you coming at me with a metaphorical flame thrower. Please note, I do not admit to supporting (or opposing) any of the following statements. They are meant only as an insight...an answer to a common enough question -- namely "Why should there be 'african american award' in the first place?"

Many ethnic minorities and other traditionally repressed people (women, homosexuals, Jews, etc) will tell you they need these awards, organizations, groups, clubs, etc to make up for past times when they were not allowed to participate in 'all' events, awards, etc.

For instance, one of the prime reasons for the collection of programs known as affirmative action (in which minority applicants for a job or university spot are given some 'extra credit' above and beyond their merit) is the notion that for generation after generation for hundreds of years black people in the US were forbidden by either law or social custom from getting an education or fair pay or a decent job or access to the political process.

Those who support affirmative action would say that over 600 years of oppression can not be undone in 30 or 40 (and even today, though it is SIGNIFICANTLY less, there is still oppression of racial minorities in the workplace, housing and the judicial system in the United States.)

This affirmative action, special interest groups (NAACP, etc), African-American Business Groups, student awards, etc are all supposed to help provide a transition from that time of oppression to a time of equal treatment.

Like I said in the beginning, I am not saying I support or oppose these policies. Somebody asked a (legitimate) question and I am trying to provide one answer (of many) as best I can.

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Many ethnic minorities and other traditionally repressed people (women, homosexuals, Jews, etc) will

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Homosexuality should not even be in there, as you don't have to be one. You HAVE to be a Jew, and you have to be a woman. Or maybe not nowadays , but you get my point.

Don't get me wrong, if somebody wants to be gay that's not my problem and really doesn't bother me, but should not even be compared to the struggles of the Jews, women or Blacks. That is an insult to the highest degree.

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For instance, one of the prime reasons for the collection of programs known as affirmative action (in which minority applicants for a job or university spot are given some 'extra credit' above and beyond their merit) is the notion that for generation after generation for hundreds of years black people in the US were forbidden by either law or social custom from getting an education or fair pay or a decent job or access to the political process.

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Another sickening fact. Special preference. Bullshit in my eyes. Quit whining about something that happened hundreds of years ago and get on with life. Quit blaming society for your poor choices in life. Many black kids have more opportunity to suceed than whites nowadays, it's all there waiting for them and all they have to do is APPLY themselves. There are plenty of blacks in high places, and they got there by doing it for themselves and not depending on support from an already strapped government.

I know that last statement could categorize me as a racist in some eyes, and that is all too wrong. I don't dislike the color, I dislike the attitude that some of that color carry. Stop the "Oh woe is me!" routine and live.

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This affirmative action, special interest groups (NAACP, etc), African-American Business Groups, student awards, etc are all supposed to help provide a transition from that time of oppression to a time of equal treatment.

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I am sorry, but the EQUAL treatment is too often turning into PREFERENTIAL treatment. As I said before, I think groups like this and awards like that only help keep racism alive.

No metaphorical flamethrower morbul, just my opinion.



[This message has been edited by Ramasax (edited 02-07-2004).]

Ramasax:

You are of the opinion that sexual orientaion is a choice. While you have the right to any and all opinions you 'choose' to have, they remain opinions and not facts.

If you ARE interested in facts, check out the research done by Simon LeVay comparing the hypothalamus of hetrosexuals and homosexuals. Also, look at the findings of Laura Allen and Roger Gorsk, findings that document physiological differences in brain structures between the two groups.

Opinions are fine, I have a lot of them myself. But I try to make a point of not offering them as facts....

Norm-

You just did.

IF you had researched completely, you would have found that the hypothalmus THEORY is still that, an educated guess. It is not FACT.

Also, for the most part, homosexuals DO and DID choose thier sexual persuasions. THAT is a FACT, not an "opinion".

btw, I wonder if you know anyone with same sex preference?

Now, if you want to discuss those BORN without a choice...Try speaking directly with those who are medically, biologically born with the third chromosomal structure and society has labeled Hermaphrodite.

check here if you want to be educated: http://hermaphrodite.arriba.net/

Peace

[This message has been edited by Lunatic (edited 02-08-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Lunatic (edited 02-08-2004).]

Lunatic:
I suggest that we move the debate on homosexuality being a choice or a physiological predisposition to another thread..... I will open the thread shortly.

[This message has been edited by norm (edited 02-08-2004).]

Semantics.

Technically, I agree that the term "African-American" can be applied to Americans who move to Africa and become a citizen in that area. Africa isn't a country. The term "African" is an adjective that means "of origins in Africa." If you consider the current (?) anthropological theory that all humans originated from Africa, at least the Africa of an ancient time, literacy would suggest that all persons are African.

"Political correctness" is an incorrect match for those who are wise. Those who are not wise, however, are not required, by a social responsibility to educate, to be rationally astute. Many people assume the term "Semite" only applies to Israelites and Jews. Unfortunately, such a view is ignorant as a Semite is "a member of any of several peoples of southwestern Asia, including Hebrews and Arabs and, formerly, Phoenicians and Assyrians." (Wordsmyth)

Good point about the term Semite. It is exactly the same type of situation. You can't be correct in using it if you want to be politically correct. It's a shame really but we're stuck with it all the same.

Ramasax,
You said, "Quit whining about something that happened hundreds of years ago and get on with life."

Though I definately agree that one should 'quit whining' about that for which it is not right to whine, the next clause in the sentence makes an incorrect implication. You say, '...happened hundreds of years ago...'. I believe the implication here is this oppression was a single (or relatively contained) event and that it stopped 'hundreds of years ago.' This is simply not true.

Slaves were freed 1 Jan 1863 -- not 'hundreds of years ago', but ~140 years ago. While 140 years seems like a long time (it is a long time!) it is not as long as people were held in slavery. In the history of Europeans in the 'New World', black people have been slaves for longer than they have been free.

Only 50 yrs ago were blacks and whites allowed to go to the same schools in most of the country. Only 50 yrs ago was a black woman arrested for not giving up her bus seat to a white person.

Just 41 years ago we had a governor say in his inaugural address, "I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever."

The Civil Rights Act was not signed but 40 years ago.

Little more than 30 years ago it was almost impossible for a black man to get a professional job, regardless of his education or qualifications. In many areas of the country that trend continues today.

Today, racial profilling is a reality in law enforcement. People of color (black, latino, etc) are significantly more likely to be pulled over and searched, arrested, given longer sentences and denied parole or probation than their causasian counterparts (regardless of actual wrong-doing, wealth, neighborhood or past criminal records!)

Now, I don't want anybody thinking I'm yelling 'racism' at every turn, nor that I think every case of 'whining' is legitimate. Nor am I saying all white people are bad, all black people are mistreated, or slavery still exists today. I'm not even saying I think affirmative action - as it is practiced today - is a fix for all our problems.

I'm only saying that it is not right to imply that all our race-problems were fixed 'hundreds of years ago' and now it's only about some disgruntled black people 'whining' for hand-outs and extra priveleges.

Morbul: You are right of course. It did not end 100's of years ago, and to a degree continues on to today. And although it has been such a short while since the civil rights movements, we have come a long long way I think.

I am all for equal rights, but I do not think there should be any kind of preferential treatment just because of a persons color, black or white or red for that matter. To have true equality, we need to all be treated the same, and by doing things like giving scholarships to blacks with lower test scores the scholarships over their white counterparts with higher scores is just as wrong as the reverse that has gone on in the past.

My main point was just to say that it is time for some to stop using the past as an excuse or crutch. It is the constant overreactive cries of racism from some of the civil rights groups that just keep things going in a big circle. I have known many blacks, a few whom I grew up with, that applied themselves and were able to go just as far as any white man, some further. Whether or not they were called sellouts is another matter, but you know what, if selling out means being happy and somewhat successful, then I don't think it should be frowned upon but the reverse, a source of motivation and encouragment.

I can imagine it is much harder for blacks in some cases, especially on the lower income end, your surroundings have a lot to do with who you are, and the ghetto is no place for a child to grow up, but they do have many opportunities to get out of there too. All they need to do is apply themselves, because when they do, that is what truly tears down the borders of racism.

I don't know, maybe you have to experience 'being' black to have a valid opinion here. I just think it is time to move on.

One other thing I think keeps racism alive and strong is the media. Think about it, you're a white suburbanite slob, you have no black friends, and the only thing you hear about blacks is from the media. The reverse is true too. Some lesser educated people are eventually going to come to a conclusion, albeit a wrong one, anybody in that position would eventually.

On the other hand, if you know any blacks/whites personally, you are not likely to categorize an entire race as "ni**ers" or "racist honkys" by color and will realize that everyone is an individual. The media keeps sterotypes alive by only reporting bad news. In the end, they suck.

An example, my father was a huge bigot for many years (his only experience with blacks being all the negative press he'd heard in his life, what his father told him, etc...), he then met and befriended a black man at work, and it was amazing how his views changed, and nowadays they hang out together, go on fishing trips, etc...

In the end, I believe all this political correctness and other crap slows down the process of true equality.

Recent studies, as well as all the media attention, suggests that men are, generally, falling behind women intellectually. Two to three times as many black women attend college as black men. Women are remaining single as there are not enough eligible bachelors. Though it is quite possible that the aforementioned is not the case. Instead, more societal memes may have been introduced in the last decade or so that promote the criteria for the practically ideal mate. It would then be likely that advertising's particularity to women also infixed a superiority complex or inferiority complex into the feminine "memestream."

"You are beautiful. You are desired by all men," says the ad.

"I am beautiful. I am desirable. You are not me," says the woman in the ad, thus suggesting to the female viewer that she should buy some product to become beautiful and desirable. This is problematic because not all men are attracted to the same type of beauty. If it is true that targeted advertising is affecting the memestream to this possibly negative degree, then perhaps the No Logoists and Marxists do exercise some truth in their criticisms of marketing.