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InSiDeR
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Oblivion
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted posted 02-24-2004 06:39

While at the discretion of religion or absence thereof, I'm more than certain many people here are intelligent enough to think for themselves and obstain from complete comformity.

I'm interested in hearing what some of the personal philosophies of the people here are. Life, Death, God, Love, Reality... Anything that seperates your individual thoughts from the thoughts of an order. What do you believe in? What do you think about the elements of life? I want to know.

As always, please be respectful of people's ideas, nothing here is stupid.

[This message has been edited by InSiDeR (edited 03-26-2004).]

Ruski
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 02-24-2004 12:17

Being an atheist, I gave up on beliefs about afterlife some time ago. The idea of God faded away too.
But I still look up to Jesus, Buddha and Gandhi, I admire those people and their behavior because they showed everyone what it’s like to be human. Sure many folks exaggerate their images (such as Jesus‘), I imagine them bit different from what books say. But to me they were human just like anyone else.
Beside that there is just way too much mystery in the around us, things perhaps beyond our imagination…so yes this leads me to believe in mystery of natur and how it functions.


InI
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 02-24-2004 13:02

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Amerasu
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 02-24-2004 14:40

Life/God - I may lack belief in gods, an afterlife or the supernatural but my life has much meaning to me. Because I don't count on any great reward in an afterlife, I think I live my life to the fullest right here, right now and I am moral because I want to be. I like contributing to a community and helping people. My philosophy is to live a good life. Finding happiness for myself and my family and doing no harm in the process.

Death - Death is the end. That's it and no more. It in no way bothers me that there is no afterlife. I barely give that a thought. The one thing that bothers me about death is missing my family.. and perhaps all the cool sci-fi space travel that will happen after my death. I would have liked to visit other planets.

Of all things, I believe people should be nicer to each other. I see people pounce on others everywhere I go and I find it ugly and sad. Instead of helping others, people put each other down at the slightest provocation. There is so little tolerance and patience and more than anything else, this bothers me. I prefer mercy over justice and perhaps that's part of my philosophy too.


Amerasu

InI
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 02-24-2004 15:34

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 02-24-2004 19:36
quote:
Anything that seperates your individual thoughts from the thoughts of an order.

InSiDeR, I hold the New Testament as my primary guide to what I believe to be true. I love to explain what I believe about all the things you mention but does my adherence to a religious book count as not being separate from a religious order? Because if I start talking about the things you mention, I will invariably mention what the Bible says about them. I just want to check before wasting too much finger juice

. . : slicePuzzle

Ruski
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 02-24-2004 23:55

"We are but dust and unto dust we shall return." I forgot who said it, but thats how I see death...in a sense we never die...we live on through our DNA and atoms...people who died became part of us and eventually we will become part of someone/something else...we wont be there to be sad, sorry, or in pain...it doesnt matter if you believe in soul/spirit...without a body its not complete to expirience what we expirience now....the feelings, the pain, the joy...

outcydr
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: out there
Insane since: Oct 2001

posted posted 02-25-2004 03:10

"We are but dust and unto dust we shall return."

strange you should use that particular quote
it's actually from the Bible

ed, i believe:
love - true love knows no boundaries
music is the universal language
the heart is a lonely hunter



[This message has been edited by outcydr (edited 02-25-2004).]

kromaZ
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Adanac
Insane since: Oct 2000

posted posted 02-25-2004 04:07

I believe the world would be so much more harmonious if people treated their fellow humans the way they would like to be treated.

As Amerasu has stated... there is too much aggression, people pouncing down others throats at the slightest whim. It seems to me to be some sort of power stuggle between people to see who can be the most assertive in justifying their own beliefs and existance.
Who is right and who is wrong.

Sadly, it's the ones who have goodness in their hearts that take the most heat.
A line that I have seen someone here use at the bottom of their posts reads something to the effect " People may forget what you say, they may forget what you did, but they will never forget the way you made them feel"

Empathy and listening skills would go a long way also.

I feel the energy of some sort of higher power or force in nature that drives me.
Fire, Wind, Water and Earth.

God, religion, don't know, but have spent a good part of my life travelling down various paths searching for direction in the universe.

Creativity in all forms is my spiritual guide these days.

We all have creative juice dancing in our souls....lets use it to the fullest and see where we can make a beautifull difference in reaching out to others.


On a side note.
I recently took the Kiercy/Myers/Briggs personality tests 3 times on a whim from a friend just to see how close it would come to the way I think of myself, and it seems I am labled according to them, as an INFJ....don't know how valid this sort of thing is but it did explain a few things....like alienation....There seems to be a shortage of this personality in the world, only 10% of the population is INFJ.

Above all, I believe in Love.

kromaZ



InSiDeR
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Oblivion
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted posted 02-25-2004 04:47

Well it appears that the lot of you are accurately describing your personal interpretation of Karma .

norm
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: [s]underwater[/s] under-snow in Juneau
Insane since: Sep 2002

posted posted 02-25-2004 06:24

I'm pretty sure that it's all some kind of Yin & Yang thing. All of it... I think that the unpleasant things, the things that we would rather not feel or see or even know about exist only so that we may have the things that bring joy and peace. It takes all parts to make a whole...

I believe that the whole ball of wax is +Love/-Love, because Love (or the lack there of...) is is the prime mover in anything and everything I can think of.And to me Satori, the joy of experiencing oneness with the universe, is the ultimate realisation of that Love.

Oh Yeah, I'm also starting to believe in Gravity...

bodhi23
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Greensboro, NC USA
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 02-26-2004 21:59

I'm an INFJ too! We're good people...

I firmly believe in a Creative Force in the Universe, but I refuse to give it a name. I hold to no dogma, but use fully whatever seems useful in my life, as far as spiritual practices go. I do believe in karma, and try hard to generate positive energy into the world, but I seem to get back a lot of negative sometimes... it's weird, and frustrating on occasion.

I don't believe in a conscious life after death, but believe the soul does live on in the energy of the Universe itself. I firmly believe that paranormal activity is the result of trapped energy and echoes of past times...

I could go on, but that's the gist of it...



Cell 617

BiGCaC
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Hartford,Ohio,USA
Insane since: May 2003

posted posted 03-05-2004 17:15

Well, I am Wiccan, and most people think that works with the devil. I dont believe so, and I dont believe in the devil or hell. As for the God issue I dont believe in Jesus, I believe in many Gods and Goddess. As for life, I think that what we are doing now, is our final exam so to speek. I think that this life right now will determine whether or not we will be with whatever we believe in. I also believe in after life and reincarnation. And when we die I believe that there are many relams to pass through before you reach your true goal. I think that there are spirits trapped in between relams. I know that this sounds kind of crazy to some people, and trust me I get a lot of people telling me I am nothing but a devil worshiper and how I will burn in hell, so please dont dont repeat what everyone else has said to me about this. I am open to other religions also, I dont think there is a right religion or a wrong religion. If there was one religion to follow to make it to heaven or wherever, then there would only be one right now. I also studied Buddha for some time, but I believe that Wicca is my natural religion.

BiGCaC

Amerasu
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 03-05-2004 18:44

I find Wicca interesting, BiGCaC. I don't know a great deal about it but if I had any leanings at all toward some sort of religion, I'd probably start with Wicca.

I've tried that personality profile a few times in the past. I came out as INTJ 2 or 3 times and INTP once so I guess I'm inbetween. I don't know how seriously to take those personality tests though. INTJ sounds like me but then again, my astrological chart can sound like me too. Who knows


Amerasu

BiGCaC
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Hartford,Ohio,USA
Insane since: May 2003

posted posted 03-05-2004 19:08

Well Amerasu, you can always surf the web for some information. But sometimes some information that is put up on the web are false so you would have to be careful. I am only saying this if you would ever want to learn some things about Wicca. I have been a Wiccan for about 3 years now. And about the personality tests, well sometimes I take them, and I have found that very few of them actually represent me. Although there may be some very effective ones out there that actually work, I tend to stay clear of them. But I do like astrology, and reading my horoscope. That is about the only thing I really rely on.

BiGCaC

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 03-05-2004 19:21

BiGCaC, if you don't mind my asking, can you give a few examples of reliable information you got from astrology and horoscopes? Horoscopes seem to be written in a very general way to me. Have you ever gotten anything specific from them?

. . : slicePuzzle

BiGCaC
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Hartford,Ohio,USA
Insane since: May 2003

posted posted 03-05-2004 19:40

Ok, well I generally read mine at the end of the day, therefore I am not looking into my whole day too much. But when I read mine at the end of the day I also reflect back on my day. For example the other day my horoscope said that I am at the peak of my game, and that I am the sunshine or something along those lines. It also told me to spread my sunshine by giving a gift to someone that was having a bad day. Well when I was talking to my girlfriend that morning, she seemed kind of down and depressed about something. So I said somethings to her, and spent the morning with her instead of doing what I had planed to do. That would be my "sunshine, or little gift to her" And she told me that she felt a lot better and was no longer worried about what was bothering her. Although that might seem kind of bull, but that is the way some look at their horoscope. You can't really read too deep into it, but you can't just say yeah ok whatever. And since you wanted a few examples I will give you another one.

Ok so I was reading my horoscope one night, and I decided to go ahead and look what they have for me for the next day. And it told me I would make a decision in my love life that would change my life around, but for the better. It also told me that the one I was looking for is one that I have already passed. So I thought about it, and come to realize that the person it is talking about would be my ex girlfriend that I broke up with a few months before this. So I went to her and we both agreed that we both think that it was a mistake to have broken up. So we began seeing each other again, and have been together for 2 years now.

I am not sure if this is helping you any or not. And I am not sure wht you mean by they are written general to you.

BiGCaC

Boudga
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Jacks raging bile duct....
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 03-10-2004 05:24

Cancel my subscription to the resurrection!

epitaph-vii
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Germany/Juelich
Insane since: Mar 2004

posted posted 03-10-2004 10:02

Well I just hope this is not offending.

In my own little world, I seperated the concepts of reason and existence. Things seem to happen just because they can. A mole of gas, a unit of heat, flows from the container it fills, towards the heat-less or gas-less container. A unit of mass with a certain momentum, will continue moving along its path of direction, as long as no force interacts on it. Molecules will try to find their most stable state of existence. Or they will find non-existence, if their existence does not fit the environment. Things just happen and we are able to observe some of these and make predictions about them. Or so it seems. No, I do not know how they all started, and frankly, without further evidence and study, without knowing where exactly to start, I personally do not give a rat's backside. But I will not cover my ignorance with the existence of what seem to be faery tales.

I do have unanswered questions, of course, but I do not try to answer them just by sitting down and thinking it over and coming to the, what seems to be an inevitable conclusion, "oh there must exist a loving forceful creator oh please please save me from my current torture oh I love you so much". Over dramatized? not a bit. We are humans. From evidence, I think that you do need an emotional trauma after all, to even start considering wtf you are here. Be it your loving wife who is unfairly ill, your abusing, assertive religious parents or your simple lack of education which makes you feel inferior if you leave the generally accepted hands of your invisible loving friend(s).

When I die, I want to shutdown, finish, end, no sense, no nothing, dead.

No, I don't want a nice villa with my family in it and with dolphins and whales swimming on the backyard pool, looking at peaceful green mountains with clouds covering their tops under a sunny blue sky, no, I don't want to reach nirvana or the peaceful ball of light or whatever, no, I do not fear the furious thunder and raging rivers of hellfire, for what I have done, I have done as human.

I do fear that my deeds would be too unimportant and that I would not accomplish something creative enough that others would like or make use of or at least remember. That is my idea of afterlife bliss, in a sense. Of course I won't be there to enjoy that. The joy is in life.

X

Taobaybee
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Feb 2003

posted posted 03-10-2004 12:09

I am in the process of writing up an essay (of sorts) that includes my beliefs at this stage in my life, and have found it to be surprisingly difficult to do. The process usually goes like this;
• There is no "one" name or word to describe what it is I'm trying to express.
• The more words I use to express my belief, the further away from it I get.
"The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao"
When I was very young, about eleven or twelve years old, I joined a religious order called the "Brothers of Charity". I lived, studied, prayed and played there for a few years until I felt something lacking and left to rejoin the outside world again.
Years passed, and then in my early teens, during my training in martial Arts, I was having a problem with focusing my energy, both in combat and in training. My teacher noticed that I was not paying due attention to my breathing, to my control of "Chi" (life energy).
I, in my wisdom, had decided that all this talk of life energy "Chi" or "Prana" to use another term was theatrical stuff (martial arts and religion I had found was full of unnecessary "props and window dressing" that only distracted the unwary).
He set me this task to do. He pointed to a large chair across the room and asked me to show the class (in training) how I would pick it up. I walked over to it slowly, positioned myself, straightened my back, bent my knees in the prescribed manner and lifted it a couple of feet and put it back down again. Then I was asked to explain to the class what technique I used to perform the action. This is the usual method in our Doju. When I had finished, he said, "You have missed one important thing out. You have told us where you positioned your feet, how and why you kept your back straight, but you did not mention your breathing."
I realized that just before I had picked the chair up I subconsciously must have estimated how much the chair had weighed and inhaled just the right amount of breath and held it to perform the task. Had it been a heavier chair I would have taken a deeper breath, a lighter chair, a more shallow breath. We all do this all the time without realizing it. My teacher had shown me that my body and subconscious mind know all about the "Chi" energy and how to use it whether I realized it or not.
I mention this because it signaled a change in my life; I resumed my study of religions or belief systems that included Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and Taoism. My martial Art training now also included a large amount of Meditation and breathing techniques.
I have found that in most of our "life's Quests" be it academic study, physical prowess, learning a musical instrument, IT skills, whatever, there is a need for a certain amount of discipline, and structure to build on.
I believe our spirit/soul also benefits from a structured regular "workout" just as much as our physical body or mind does. I just feel that organized religion used to perform this role in our lives, but now has "lost the way", for me anyway.
The Big questions of, Life after death or whether God exists, are so far beyond our comprehension our understanding, that (I think) we would be foolish to worry about them at all.
There is so much more I want to add, but the more I say, the further from the "truth" I seem to stray.
:::tao:::

[This message has been edited by Taobaybee (edited 03-10-2004).]

bodhi23
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Greensboro, NC USA
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 03-11-2004 22:58

Tao - I feel you! That's it, exactly.

BiGCaC - reading your horoscope at the end of the day is Post Hoc reasoning. You can't prove something is true after the fact. It doesn't work that way. Astrology has been repeatedly tested, and the results always come out so close to chance that you can't say for sure one way or the other. It's been proven wrong as often as it's been proven true.

I spent some time studying Wicca myself. I have nothing against the belief system. I actually find it to be one of the healthiest religious systems out there - even though there are a large number of real freaks that manage to get involved with it... It counsels responsibility for ones actions, and respect for the world and the peoples and creatures we share it with.

I do believe there is an energy current in the world. Call it what you like, "Chi" works... I do believe one can learn to control this energy, with much discipline and focus.

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 03-13-2004 14:59

"Chi" or whatever we call it could be part of creation just like everything else. In other words, we have learned how to understand, manipulate, and use many things in this world and this life energy is part of this world like all other forces we encounter. Do you think that this energy indicates a higher source? One could make the argument that this life energy is just part of our physical reality and nothing more. I'm curious how you both view that aspect of "chi". Personally, I think there is a reality to this energy and that we can learn a great deal about it and how to better live our lives with discipline and control.

Tao, I'm not quite sure why you think it is foolish to be concerned about what may happen to us after we leave this earth. If we stand to exist in that reality far far longer than here, why not give it some thought now? What if there is a way to affect what will happen to us then... now?


. . : DHTML Slice Puzzle : . . . : Justice 4 Pat Richard : . .

[This message has been edited by Bugimus (edited 03-13-2004).]

Taobaybee
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Feb 2003

posted posted 03-14-2004 03:30

I believe everything is part of "creation", Bugimus. "Chi" is natural, whatever other terms we choose to apply to it like, life energy, prana or even inner strength.
Do I think this energy indicates a higher source?
I'm not too sure what you mean by "higher source" If you mean, do I think it indicates that there is a God or a spiritual realm? Then the answer is no. But I do believe that it indicates how little we understand certain aspects of life and our place in it.
When I said;

quote:
The Big questions of, Life after death or whether God exists, are so far beyond our comprehension our understanding, that (I think) we would be foolish to worry about them at all.


The emphasis for me was on the word "worry". The universe (everthing), I believe, will unfold in the way of it's own nature, regardless of my worrying about it. That's not to say that I don't "give it some thought". I started thinking about it all when I was about ten years old, and I haven't stopped yet, forty years later.
Bugimus, you asked,
"What if there is a way to affect what will happen to us then... now?"
I believe everything we do, say and think, affects us all now, and will continue to affect us directly or indirectly in the future.
I hope that answers the question.


:::tao:::

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 03-14-2004 05:41

Well yes it does. Thanks.

I believe that God, the higher source I was asking about, is separate from this creation. I believe He created from nothing and when it ceases to exist, God will still remain.


. . : DHTML Slice Puzzle : . . . : Justice 4 Pat Richard : . .

Cameron
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Brisbane
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 03-14-2004 20:11

I believe whatever I need to in order to best serve my life. My beliefs are mine, for me, they serve me and no one else. As they should, being *my* beliefs.

Those statements sounds selfish, but the particulars probably lie close to some pre established religion(s) anyhow. Not that I've succeeded in penning down those "particulars" before. Last time I tried this in this very form it was leaning towards 5000 words and I'd still only scratched the surface. That was some years ago and I've learnt a lot since then. My beliefs haven't changed too much yet I think I can explain them a little better this time around. Yet that's not likely to make it any easier, so forgive me as I stumble on and try to actually put some of these ideas into words...

I'll start with the aspect of my beliefs that reflect upon other peoples beliefs, which probably makes for a good introduction and shows how difficult getting this into words is for me.

On a whole, I take on a fairly post modern view of anything religious. In other words, I don't believe in any one truth. Every religion is true in the heart of its followers. Your religion is true is if serves you well. The only time I could call someone's belief or religion false is if they either didn't really believe or if that belief is so blind it's actually hurting them (but they would have to be a *very* clear cut definitions of *blind* and *hurt*).

That probably isn't going to make any sense unless you understand postmodernism, which is a huge subject in and of itself, is defiantly too big to get into at any depth here. If you're really keen to know what it's about, Google it.

To this end, my beliefs also change to accommodate my life but there are some constants or perhaps reoccurring elements. Most of these can be contributed to a mix of postmodernist and humanist philosophy rationalised against my current (albeit often quite radical) perceptions of the world, bar one. That one would be my concept of *god*, which in turn effects my perceptions of the world and my life.

Note: I have a nasty habbit of over generalising "world" and "life" where I should be using something more pointed. So don't take those words literally.

I can conceive the notion of *god* or a *higher being*. Actually, that's no quite right. I personally prefer the term *higher order* as it removes the sense of being but I've come to learn that this is a very contested term with many definitions, so if anyone knows of a godly term without the inherit concept of 'being', I'd love know of it, and what religion it comes from.

Anyways, back to the point. My concept of *god* defiantly doesn't dominate me, or the decisions I make in a 'direct' manner. I call upon a combination of (hopefully) educated reason and my perceptions of society, life and the world I live in when I need to make decisions. *God* in my perception is not a being I can interact with on a human level (but at times I do still consider god a being, but strictly in the loose philosophical sense of the word).

I see *god* as more of a Meta element that helps to describe how I perceive life and myself. My awareness of god is through my perceptions, or more precisely the evaluation of my perceptions and thoughts. I perceive *god* on a metaphysical level, often filling the gaps between sensory input and reason. Music is a prime example of this. Reason can tell my why and how I hear, but not why I find a particular arrangement of auditory stimuli more pleasing that another. Although, that's probably a gross over simplification to a musician, so I'll use an example I consider myself and probably many of the people here relatively educated in as well as hopefully demonstrating this has little bearing on pre existing knowledge of a concept.

I'm a designer. I understand the practice of design and communication. One simple element of this practice is that of metaphor. I *understand* the concept of metaphor, but I sometimes find *god* in my appreciation of witnessing this concept in action, sometimes I may not. I may also find this in visual arrangements that conform to no definable rules or concepts.

This probably shouldn't be making any sense, just in case you were wondering but hopefully it will soon.

Furthermore, A twig lying in a gutter could at any particular instant seem like the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, or it could just be some damn twig in a gutter that I glance over not paying any attention to. It's that abstract trigger, the metaphysical perception of something greater that conforms to no reason or rules. It could be visual, auditory, tactile or any combination of the way I perceive this world.

The key element here being my perception of the world and the reactions I have to it. *God* isn't someone I talk or pray to, isn't someone who dictates write from wrong. The very concept of *god* actually being someone is all too often confusing enough for me to realistically believe in. No, to me *god* simply is. Something that I can perceive.

Perhaps the best way to describe it in once sentence is to say:
The meta level of my perceptions, is where I find *god*.

Why? What purpose does this serve? Can I stop reading now?

Why not. Many. No, I'm almost done.

If my actions through life are primarily based on my perceptions of *being* (myself and the world/universe/cosmos/place I exist in), then my concept of *god* has an inherit impact on everything I do, but in a way my actions are still very much my own.

And I think I'll leave it there. About 4000 words less that my previous attempt…

Wow, that was both easier and harder that I thought it would be. Hope it made some ounce of sense.

[This message has been edited by Cameron (edited 03-14-2004).]

jade
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: houston, tx usa
Insane since: Mar 2003

posted posted 03-25-2004 04:43

Reading thru some of these post, its something to realize that there are so many percecptions of who God or the supreme higher order is perceived to be by different individuals. To me it so easy to believe in God. How could the maker leave us orphans like nomands wandering in the desert looking for the meaning of life our whole natural lives. A God would want us to know who God is or why be born in the first place. To ponder till death nevering really knowing who or what God is really doesn't make sense to me. I think that most encounter God every day, but don't want to recognize God.

Ruski
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 03-25-2004 05:52

Or maybe there is no god

...jade why do you think there has to be a big daddy watching over us?
you keep expressing yourself as if everyone is stupid who doesnt believe in supernatural stuff.(I am not implying you do, but it sounds like that)
do you really think universe/nature is so absurd?

velvetrose
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: overlooking the bay
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted posted 03-25-2004 14:04

i've never attempted to put my beliefs into words, it seems so simple and yet as i ponder the words to use, the subject becomes complex. i know there is a god and perceive him as beyond my understanding and perceptions. the rest of my beliefs are on the order of what happens with life as i am able to perceive it.

much of what has been said, i agree with. i do have problems with strict doctrines, they seem so limiting. does god have limits? i tend to think not. would he create life and give it limits? sure, the laws of nature prove that, but even the nature of life moves from stardust to stars, comets, meteors and planets. for all i know, all of these things have spirits or souls.

Mother Nature is a term often heard and could in fact be the spirit of Terra, the earth we live on. it has occurred to me that all life forms are the eyes and ears of the planet, that the animals that are disappearing have reincarnated as humans because their environments are becoming unliveable and to see how they can rectify the destruction that humans are doing to the planet - for we, as humans, have the greatest ability to change the earth and the atmosphere.

whether we believe in a god or not, our environment is vital to our lives. whether our life amongst other humans is easy or difficult, it is our choices which bring us satisfaction, joy, harmony, love or difficulty, anger, confusion or hate. But where do these choices come from? daily living. life brings us situations and choices. whether we choose wisely depends on our experience or lack thereof. experience is a funny thing. we can get wrapped up in an emotional response to it or going beyond that, we can learn from it.

as humans, we all walk a different paths and the experiences we gain on that path determine how we respond, but we can always change our minds we can be judgemental and say "you guys are lost, I know the only truth out there." if you say this, then you denigrate the life and experiences of those you judge. if you set aside judgement, then you learn more of the human experience. for others bring to life that which you have not experienced, because you have not walked a mile in their shoes and have no way of knowing how their spiritual side affects their daily judgements and decisions. if you have not listened to or walked a mile in the shoes of someone who does not see a spiritual side or who does not believe in god, then you cannot know how they think and your life experience is reduced.

InSiDeR, did i answer your question? or have i gone off on a tangent?

bodhi23
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Greensboro, NC USA
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 03-25-2004 19:00

Bugs - "Chi" is just another name for the creative force that flows through all things on earth for me. I don't have a problem with anyone referring to it as "God", I just prefer not to do so myself. I think the word "Force", borrowing a little from Mr. George Lucas, is highly appropriate.

I am firmly of the opinion that people's beliefs are inherently personal. Yes, you can all be called Christian, but everyone interprets that belief system a little bit different. I don't think you can look at an individual's beliefs without considering who, exactly, that person is. A given person's beliefs expressed don't mean as much without that intrinsic personal information.

Off the top of my head, there are 2 devout Christians here in our community, Jade and Bugimus, who both call themselves Christian, but as you read over the posts from each person, you can see the differences in their beliefs - though they follow a similar doctrine. The differences probably have more to do with the individual person and the environments each comes from than anything else. But remember, even the different sects of Christianity have been at each other's throats since the time of Paul. Think about it: Roman Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians... everyone one of these groups thinks a little differently. Who are we to say what is right and what is wrong? We'll never know until we get there at the end of it all.

The problem I have with organized religion has little to do with the fundamental beliefs of each (after a great deal of my own personal research, I find all the major religions to be very similar in fundamentals...), it has more to do with the people in charge. EX: for you to sit there and tell me that what I believe is "WRONG", simply because it doesn't conform to your idea of the "Truth", is an attempt to force your belief system on to me. Who said I was required to believe the same as you? This is all hypothetical, no one here has done that, just making a point.

I don't believe there is a "Right" or "Wrong" way to believe. I've decided recently that the important part is simply to have a belief. I firmly believe that spirituality is an integral part of life on earth, and that those who have no spirituality are missing something vital. It usually comes out as violent crime against others. This can, of course, go the other way. Folks who become too immersed in their beliefs can also become so obsessed that they commit violent crimes on those that they think of as "Non-believers".

People are weird animals. We have all of this amazing mental power, yet we consistently use it to oppress and divide ourselves across the globe. The problems we have with people's differences in belief are only an aspect of this.

It shouldn't matter to anyone whether what you believe is considered "Right" by the moral majority or not. Just have faith in something. The "creative force" I mentioned above is amorphous. It can have many faces, or just one. To suit the needs of the individual spirit who desires more than what is material here on earth.

Arthemis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Milky Way
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted posted 03-26-2004 13:44

i have a problem. almost never read the answers to a topic that is in itself a question.

so, albeit what everyone has written, here goes...


human imagination is not a limit to reality, not only it is vastly indimensional when compared to everything that "is" or "exists", it can be even considered, on our own perceptional level as "not as vast as it could be"

in other words. me is a worm among worms, with the joy of knowing that i'm made of the same thing as stars. and that everyone and everything is a vault for something they cannot begin to comprehend, but that exists even without them. even if that existence is not something you can possibly translate in words. words i am using right now, and, since they are the only thing i can use on you that is reading, don't expect much from what is written all over your computer window. you know... it's called the bottleneck effect. your brain probably recalls the term from somewhere.

oh... it also helps to follow your present nature. it mutates by itself, so, if you follow it, you're always changing to something that will fit existence even better... or worse. that's the fun part

i wish you all good deaths.

abayo

Taobaybee
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Feb 2003

posted posted 03-26-2004 16:20

I just wanted to add a footnote to my comments.
A friend of mine has read this thread and after doing so said to me that they did not realise that I did not believe in a God.
This is not the case my friends, and if it appeared that way I can only put it down to my clumsy[ness] using of words.
When I said in answer to Bug's question about Chi. "Do I think this energy indicates a higher source?

quote:
I'm not too sure what you mean by "higher source" If you mean, do I think it indicates that there is a God or a spiritual realm? Then the answer is no. But I do believe that it indicates how little we understand certain aspects of life and our place in it.


I gave too short an answer.
I believe everything that exsists, does so as a direct result of a "Greater Spirit" or "Higher Source". That we as humans have little chance of "knowing" the, reasons/physics/modus operandi of such a spirit or source.
There is so much more that I could say here, but my words are like a fog today.

On a slightly different note, having re-read this thread, I am impressed at how each person has tried to honestly, gently and with great humility, present their very personal beliefs, and not tried to criticise others. I am glad that I have the chance to know you all, even if it is only in this limited way.
::tao::

bodhi23
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Greensboro, NC USA
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 03-26-2004 16:50

I too, am impressed with how very civil this thread has been. Most of these topics turn into blazing arguments before 25 posts!

Way to go inmates!

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