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mobrul
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 06-29-2001 00:48

New web project will need need Java...in 3 different parts, I think. I really am speaking from complete ignorance here so PLEASE be gentle.
1) Browser interface for a 'real' program written in Java.
2) Web page using JSP as server-side stuff. (I assume this is similar to ASP, with which I am familiar)
3) Something called servlets. (I assume this is the server version of applets...though I don't know a thing about them.)
I don't know any 'real' languages. Picked up JavaScript fairly well in about 3 months, and ASP in about the same amount of time.(I know there is no relation, just a point of reference.) And that is all of the programming I know.
Am I in over my head?
What is the difference between Java, JSP, servlets, applets, etc.?
Any good starting tips? I've found a few web sites. Haven't had time to really do anything with them though.

Anybody familiar?

mobrul

mr.maX
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Belgrade, Serbia
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 06-29-2001 07:44

Maybe you can find something useful at Apache's Jakarta project web site: http://jakarta.apache.org



[This message has been edited by mr.maX (edited 06-29-2001).]

kevincar
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: north hills, ca usa
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted posted 06-29-2001 09:52


>1) Browser interface for a 'real' program written in Java.

Hmmm. so your browser HTML will submit requests to the
java servlets via form tags? That's actually what most people do ...
unless you blew by me (in both lanes - by speaking of Applets, then
I'd suggest re-thinking, unless it's some proprietary audience your app
is for - It's VERY difficult to determine JVM and a browser's java capabilities,
and get all that communicated to your server app. Just my 2 cents -
other people will argue... don't say I didn't warn you if you go the applet route :-)

>2) Web page using JSP as server-side stuff. (I assume this is similar
to ASP, with which I am familiar)

Yup, this is the "fun" part of your project - because it embeds the presentation
layer - most "software architects" that I know hate JSP because it merges
your "presentation" interface with "code" - something that (IMO) anal-retentive
"real smart" software architects think is "impure" - if you got one of these
"real smart" architect-weenies on your team, just smile for him/her and make
a lot of excuses about why you had to actually write code.

>3) Something called servlets. (I assume this is the server version of applets...though I don't know a thing about them.)

I'm greatly simplifying here, but Servlets are really just "classes" that run within your Java app server, which is architecturally under your web server. Yes, they are like applets because they are classes, but they "inherit" from a different "superclass", which makes them pretty different... syntactically they're the same, tho.

Congratulations!
You got yourself into a real n-tier Internet application project!
If ya want reading material, just download EVERYTHING from java.sun.com, but
I assume you already did that :-) If you got a LOONG weekend, read the "Thinking in Java" book floating around on the NET. also check out www.jguru.com - TONS
of FAQ stuff there - VERY easily digestible.

yet ANOTHER senseless opinion -
Java is one of the best, and easiest languages to learn ... MUCH more that
VB - why? It was BUILT for the Internet, and it is the closest we've ever
come to REALLY having software that's "machine-independent" -

Have fun!
Need any help, buzz me - I've been programming in Java for 3 years... but
I'll be in Europe on vacation for awhile - be patient w/me if you ICQ.



WarMage
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Rochester, New York, USA
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 06-29-2001 18:32

I will have to second the applet thing... They can be painful... since they have to run in a browser...

A real program would / should be made in a AWT frame or a JFrame... some people really like swing, as you should (notice that some compatability issues may arrise out of using Swing). From here you would need to pass information and retreive it, which would not be too hard to do.

Servlets are easy. They are nothing like applets, applets are inherintly GUI based programs, while Servlets are at their core command line at best... They handle requests from a web browser and send them back.

I tend not to like JSP because of the entire overhead deal. I am not exactly sure how they work out in real world usage. But I am assuming that it would create a new thread each time JSP information is called. Servlets remain in memory, which could make them more useful... I am not sure on the specifics of speed servlet vs JSP.

I just keep thinking of the 30 second load time I get for 16k applets... and wouldn't want to have that happen with each request a user submits (knows it wouldn't be that bad since it is run on the server with JVM constanly running).

If you are looking for some need stuff via Java you may want to look at schwab.com and download their velocity, which is programmed in java, get JED and decompile it take a look at some of the code, you may learn something about the way they interact with their DB. I haven't done this yet, but I am sure that multibillion dollar financial industries hire pretty good coders

-mage-

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