Topic awaiting preservation: Belief in Paranormal (Page 1 of 3)

Personally I do believe in the paranormal to some extent.
I am usually wary of jumping right to the ghost conclusion because of the frequent hoaxes that are pulled but I am not entirely shut out to the oppurtunity.And quite frankly that belief is the only thing that keeps me remotely interested in the world.

If one match can start a forest fire then why does it take the whole box to start a BBQ Grill?

I would just like to know what you guys think about the topic.

No real belief in the supernatural here. I've yet to see proper proof. Citing studies without proper controls doesn't cut it for me, nor does anecdotal evidence. I'm open to it but based on what I've read, learned and experienced, I really doubt anything supernatural exists. Call me super-agnostic on the issue.

Amerasu |

No beliefe in supernatural strictly here...no reason to do so...as to what keeps me interested in living... scientific theories, education, exploration, learning of history and cultures developments as well of developing my skills as humans (in languages, arts, education etc.)

why scientific theories?

because they are more likely to be true rather than to believe in thousands year old jewish folklores...ohh well no offence

...they can be wrong, but also very possible...the more you learn about subject the more you can speculate...
guess, debate....but its fun to play around with ideas of laws of universe...

we all know most of them exist...but we just guess/speculate how they work and what could be possibilities..

I believe in spirits, much like my people. I do tend to balance that, with my knowledge of science...I think that maybe spirits consist of energy...and because there hasn't been much scientific research in these areas, have pretty much gone "undetected"

Which is why it would be nice, if the Paranormal would be considered a real area of scientific investigation *sigh*

Oh well...humans. Heh.

(Edited by WebShaman on 04-13-2004 23:52)

I would love for paranormal to become a respected form of research especially since to me it seems like I have two of what you would call energy signatures inside my house even though my whole family thinks I'm nuts for it.

Not wishing to be a pedant but things like 'belief' and 'paranormal' are always tricky terms.

I know there are phenomena that currently lack a good explanation but that may or may not be paranormal or it might just indicate there are holes in our scientific understanding of things (but perhaps thats what the paranormal has always been). I don't need to believe this.

Equaly if someone asks you if you think there are UFOs I'd reply that I know there are flying objects that are currently unidentified and usually at this point the person asking the question has had the answer they were looking for an they can wander of happy thinking "ahhhhhh another true beliver" or "credulous fool". They miss the next bit where I say but that needn't mean they are alien space ships (the ETH) or even ships or even anything beyond our current level of understanding - people's recollection of events is notoriously poor and unreliable at the best of times and when often mixed with delusions, known mental phenomena (frontal lobe epilepsy, night terros/sleep paralysis, etc.), extraordinary events, etc. it can prove a volatile source for many paranormal beliefs.

That isn't to say aliens aren't flying their saucers around abducting people as it is difficult to prove a negative (in the same way I can't disprove that Santa, God, the Tooth fairy, etc. aren't 'real').

Probably not the asnwer you were looking for though

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Emps

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I think your answer is a fine and very perceptive one, I really wasn't looking for a specific answer just an answer. I pretty much agree with you I really don't believe in aliens but am not closed to the subject.

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No real belief in the supernatural here. I've yet to see proper proof.

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hey, Amerasu...but if we get the proof...it is not "supernatural" anymore, is it?

..if there is proof to whatever to "it's" existance(etc.) it's more likely becomes acknowledged and accepted eh?

(Edited by Ruski on 04-20-2004 14:21)

That's a really good question if paranormal reasearch were to become accepted would it's appeal be lost?

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Yep Ruski.

Paranormal stuff is researched as far as I know, it's just not done to proper scientific standards. Double blind testing, etc.

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That's a really good question if paranormal reasearch were to become accepted would it's appeal be lost?

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Maybe so... I think it depends what the research turns up. I find it somewhat interesting even though I don't actually believe in anything supernatural. It's good for fiction reading anyway

Amerasu |

The only supernatural things I most certainly believe in are those described by my faith in Christ. As far as ghosts and ufos are concerned, I am quite the agnostic Very much like agent Mulder, I *want* to believe in them. I have never had any personal experience with either thus far nor have I ever seen the proper proof as Amerasu puts it.


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See to me since I believe in Christ I must also believe in the supernatural to an extent. Of course i also think of Death as an actual person as well as a process.

I believe in paranormal activities. I never used to because scientists have proven that there is some kind of supernatural activity out there as much as they haven't proved anything. I also believe that if you are a person very "intune" with your surroundings that you could very well catch a glimpse of something here and there.

BiGCaC

That's pretty much what i believe since i have caught such glimpses several times around my own house and my cousin's

I too am very intuned and open into the spiritual world and do know by experiences the spiritual beings exist in this physical world. Don't know why or what exactly they are here for, but from my experiences they have something to do with energy or electricity of some sort. They could be trapped spirits or spirits sent to fulfill a certain mission. Who knows.

I definetly believe in things beyond our normal perception. And have seen some rather strange things in my time...
One strange thing, I wouldn't mind talking about...happened one time when I was standing outside of a bank waiting
for my wife to finish up a transaction, and I was smoking a cig leaning up against a wall looking at this tree. Suddenly I
got this strange feeling all over, like something was about to happen, and suddenly a tiny black speck appeared in front of
me, where the tree was. Then it grew and there was this huge black circle in front of me, but at its border I could still see the
sky and part of a road, and part of the parking lot. And suddenly everything go really quiet and I could see into the infinity
of nothingness. It only lasted for a couple seconds and then there was a sort of bang and everything went back to normal.
The people around me just kept on their daily business and no one even noticed it. I finished my cig and told my wife
about it when she came out. She didn't really care to much. Strange things happen to me all the time, I just normally
don't talk about them here...or anywhere else. Maybe this would be of interest to some of you ----> Click here

I have always wondered if there was some sort of explanation for this, but I have never come up with any, when
it happened I just had the feeling that I was seeing infinity, and the vast emptiness of everything. It was cool.


< Ozone Quotes >

GN, did you consider the possibility there was some physical abnormality occurring in your perception? Perhaps you suffered a very minor stroke or had some sort of floater in your eye fluid?


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GN: I'd go and get my eyes checked asap if I were you - it sounds like classic macular degeneration which can lead to all sorts of weird visual hallucinations and eventually blindness. If caught early you should be fine.

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Emps

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GN, I find that link a lot of fun. Do you ever listen to Coast to Coast with George Noory? Sometimes I listen late at night and when he gets on the ghost topics, I tend to get a bit freaked out all alone upstairs. I keep thinking I'm going to turn around and see someone standing there and have to go change my pants

Has anyone here seen a ghost? I think I remember Suho mentioning a story a while back when he was visiting a hotel that was haunted and he said he saw a little girl in the hallway that matched the ghost's description.


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I doubt a floater in my eye would slowly grow and also effect my hearing, making the sounds of cars and the birds and everything disapear, then re-appear with a bang and leaving me with a strange feeling inside. As far as that eye disorder, Emps...I guess it could be that and I should probably get it checked it, though this happened about 3 years. I will definity look into it. [edit]And by the way, the circle did not move, when I looked around...[/edit]

And ghosts, never saw one...but when I went to college I lived in this dorm that was supposedly haunted by this girl, and it just so happened that my roommate and I lived in the same room where she supposedly stayed. I think I've mentioned this before...but anyway. One time my roommate was out of town and this friend was staying over in his bed. After we had gone to sleep, a few hours later or so, the radio suddenly came on full blast...It scared the shit out of both of us. Then later that same night, after we had gotten back to bed, the door suddenly came flying open and smashed into the closet behind it, making a loud noise that also scared the shit out of us. Needless to say, we didn't get back to bed that night.

Also, my Dad lives in this really old house, and one time I was sleeping in the spare bedroom and I felt this presence standing over me, but when I looked there was nothing there, but I felt the presence of what I percieved to be a younge female. I also always notice my little sister, who is only 3, waving at apparently no one, and smiling at some sort of un-perceptible being...or maybe just at nothing.

And I used to listen to listen to Art Bell, but since having a kid and having to be at work at 6:30am, I am not really up that late at night. I guess George Noory replaced him?


< Ozone Quotes >

(Edited by Gilbert Nolander on 05-07-2004 16:02)

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Gilbert Nolander said:

I doubt a floater in my eye would slowly grow and also effect my hearing, making the sounds of cars and the birds and everything disapear, then re-appear with a bang and leaving me with a strange feeling inside. As far as that eye disorder, Emps...I guess it could be that and I should probably get it checked it, though this happened about 3 years. I will definity look into it. [edit]And by the way, the circle did not move, when I looked around...[/edit]

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Our perceptions are strange things and macular degeneration does seem to come with a whole host of weird hallucinations. I doubt it is (esp. after reading the edit) but it is something I'd check out as soon as was physically possible.

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Emps

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Bugimus, I have seen what I believe to be a specter.

If one match can start a forest fire then why does it take the whole box to start a BBQ Grill?

I would be very interested to hear the details, Sangreal.


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I also once saw a ghost. I travel quite a bit, and I was staying at the Crockett Hotel in San Antonio (1992). I have never before, or since, seen anything like it, but during my stay there I saw her twice. A woman, dark skinned, wearing a white gown, probably nightwear. High collar, long sleeves, gathered waist. Her hair was up. It actually wasn't scary at all . . . she just seemed to belong there. And no, substance abuse was not involved! Now I'm a believer.

Dragonlady

But how did you determine she was a spectre? More details please


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Totally visually. Sorry, no proof. Both times I was awakened from sleep, I can't tell you why. I saw the exact same "person" in different locations in the room, several nights apart. At first, I even spoke to her, since through half-closed eyes, I thought she might be my co-worker whom I was sharing the room with (I asked her if she was having trouble sleeping!); but when I got no response I opened my eyes. I can't really describe her face very well, since it was dark and she was dark-skinned . I'd guess her to be about 30, maybe a little older, and relative attractive in a plain sort of way. I only watched her "leave" once. She just walked (I'm assuming that . . .I couldn't see her feet, since the other bed was in the way} across the room and . . . faded. The second time she was very close to me and appeared to be observing me curiously, but I was really tired, and after a few seconds I just rolled over and went back to sleep. Like I said, I wasn't frightened, and I could feel that she was not a malevolent spirit. Now I wish I had attempted to talk to her, since I have no doubt that she was aware of my presence, not just "there," if you know what I mean. I doubt she would have spoken, tho. I should explain ? without a doubt I AM eccentric, but still totally rational!

Dragonlady

I think I would have come unglued if I saw a stranger in my room like that at night. Yikes


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It sounds more like a waking dream - we had a long discussion on the hag/night terrors a while ago and it is interesting to hear more benign experiences.

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Emps

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Always the sceptic Emps. : )

GN: Sceptical about what?

I'm not sceptical about whether ghosts exist or not - I'm open to the idea (esp. as one has been seen in this house) I just don't think that is one.

Its fascinatating nonetheless.

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Emps

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[aside]Sangreal, have you read the writings of Michael Baigent?[/aside]

Paranormal research has been conducted for years within the rigors of the scientific method. The problem with this has been that, with the methods currently available, the outcomes of all experiments have never been better than chance. Honestly controlled and documented experiments have neither proven nor disproven the existence of paranormal activity to date. Duke University here in NC pioneered scientific research in the paranormal in the late 60's and early 70's and continues to research the paranormal today, albeit on a slightly quieter basis than in the beginning of the department. Duke is well known for their contributions to the collective knowledge base of scientific theory.

You know, my husband and I enjoy hanging out on the front porch watching wildlife... frequently, he will point something out to me that I just do not see. Not because it's not there, but because I just can't see that far. A great deal that goes on in the world that appears supernatural or paranormal can be chalked up to natural activity when you observe it carefully enough. This is not to say that everything that occurs in the world has already been discovered and pinpointed, just that perhaps we're not observing closely enough... With the aforementioned "methods available", it'll be years, if not decades, before we know the truth.

As for my personal belief in ghosts, I had a weird epiphany one day about the nature of energy. I was thinking initially about sound waves, and how they bounce around in an enclosed space, and I was thinking about echos at the same time. It occurred to me that the possibility exists that what most people term "ghosts" or "spectres" is nothing more than a trapped echo of energy.

Here's my reasoning: In most haunting cases, the story leading up to the death of the individual in question involves some sort of traumatic event. An accidental death, a murder, something like that... Anyone who's experienced anything even remotely traumatic can attest to the amount of energy those sorts of events generate. Not just the physical adrenaline rush, but a great deal of mental and emotional energy is generated as well - Energy that can't necessarily be detected by normal means. Instead of the energy dissipating as it should, and often does in a normal or expected death, I think it gets trapped in the locale of the incident. I haven't figured out the means with which this would happen... mind you, this is all idle thoughts... I also haven't decided yet whether or not this could include an actual consciousness or not, but since most hauntings usually see the same sequence of events over and over again, rather than what seems to be an independent entity, the idea of an echo seems reasonable.

I would love to see more research into the energy of the human body and what happens to it at the moment of death. Unfortunately, a lot of experiements that could be conducted on this are not ethical... can't just be killing people to see what exactly happens when they die... Controlled experiments into this area are extremely limited. I believe that we do not yet possess the means to define what we currently refer to as "paranormal" or "supernatural", but I believe it exists, and that we will one day be able to pinpoint it as a thoroughly natural occurence...

(Pardon me if this post seems slightly erratic, I've been trying to type it for the last 2 hours... shouldn't be doing this during a payment deadline... tsk tsk...)

(Edited by bodhi23 on 05-13-2004 22:39)

Bodhi, I agree with that to an extent. Like you, I haven't spent a lot of time on the subject, but I do agree that what has been observed is an energy. But I think that it isn't just an echo . . . what if the part of us that is energy is the soul, and so that continues in all of us after death? Many of the spectors that people have observed have been glowing "clouds", streaks, etc., typical of what you would expect of energy. In my case it was as if it were a real woman, so maybe she had a different story. But the energy idea would also explain poltergeist phenomena, and the fact that some people claim to have seen a white vaporish cloud leave recently deceased people. If it is an intelligent entity rather than an echo, it would also explain such things as malevolent spirits. A friend of my sister's told her that when she was walking down a staircase in her home, something tripped her by grabbing her ankle. She swears by it. Whether nor not something grabbed her ankle, she only got a broken arm. Lucky.

It does seem as if so many spectors do have a history of traumatic or suicidal deaths, but possibly they weren't ready to depart this plane, so they hang around indefinitely until they either accept their situation or are somehow relieved of their concerns? By the way, I read somewhere that paranormal researchers who were investigating spirits in castles in Great Britain have ascertained that the general life expectancy of a ghost is 500 years. I hope someone reminds me not to hang around after I die!

Dragonlady

All very interesting...

I suppose I could be considered agnostic.

What I do believe is that beyond science's inability to either prove or disprove the reality of supernature, the issue will always be muddied by the efforts of those who desire to make some sort of gain from the ignorance of others.

Take religion, for instance...

White Hawk - well, of course!

These days everybody is out for what they can get out of it. Rare is the true philanthropist...

Dragonlady,

I spent four nites at the Crocket Hotel in San Antonio two weeks ago and heard of the Ghost but didn't see anything strange when I was there.

An old Mexican wives tale on visions of the supernatural is that if you see a ghost in white it means impending death of someone. This also refers to dreams of a person wearing white. Visions or dreams are usually of a woman in a white wedding dress. This is a widespread belief in the Hispanic culture.



I did want to go see the famous place where those children died in a bus accident in San Antonio where it involved a train. They say if you go there and stop your car on the tracks the children push you car over and the way you can tell is if you sprinkle baby powder on you car and you can see the hand prints of the children. I remember seeing this on some kind of mystery show on cable. And also many people and relatives I know have went there and say it is indeed true.

I've heard of that paranormal activity around that bus accident but I didn't know where it was. If I get back to San Antonio I will check it out! I also saw the special and it appeared to be true.

I'm not sure, but I think I was in room 256 at the Crockett, but don't hold me to that. I hadn't heard anything about the ghost before I went there. What did you hear? Did the one that you heard of fit the description of the one I saw? I would be curious to know. I tried to find something on the internet on it, but I couldn't. (The only one I found at the time wanted me to join a "Ghosts of San Antonio" organization.)

I also hadn't heard of the old wives' tale. Didn't have any deaths around that time , tho!

Dragonlady

Dragonlady,

Don't know for sure what the story is. I think it might be on the web. My husband wanted to stay there because he heard the place was haunted and he wanted to check out the ghost. He did not see anything erie either.