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Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 06-29-2004 20:14

I really am not able to get the look of hard plastic white ball like: .

I would really appreciate to hear your suggestions. My problem is to get the right feel with reflections and adding hotspots to white surface.

What would be the right approach? How to create good shadowing to preserve bright white surface?

Please help.

(Edited by Arnitald on 06-29-2004 20:16)

mobrul
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 06-29-2004 21:07

I'm no artist, but one thing I can tell you is that ball ain't white.
Yeah, yeah, I know it *looks* white...but it isn't.
Here, just for fun I poked around a bit and these are the values I came up with.



Look at those hex codes. There's only one that is even close to white, and it's not even that close.

I don't know what sort of information one could extrapolate from such data...I'll leave that to the artists. For my logical (read: non-artistic) brain, this pokin' around is where I'd start looking for clues to your problem.

Nightshade
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Reign Of Chaos
Insane since: Dec 2001

posted posted 06-29-2004 22:12

One of the biggest things is the reflectivity of a hard plastic ball. you can use most of the typical tutorials and methods for creating a plastic ball but then you need to add the reflectivity.

Look at this tutorial and you can see just how many reflections can make up such an effect. http://www.planetphotoshop.com/alward62.html

Even after completing that turorial that is only the lighting of your shpere.

I'd like to offer more detail but till I get home I don't have most of my bookmarks available. Do a google search if you like it will likely return dozens of sites with many excellent techniques and tutorials. Once I'm at a computer with the ones sorted by topic I'll pick a few I like and post back.

For now though this one is one of my favorite tutorials. http://www.photoshopgurus.info/intermediate/classy-glass_buttons/classy-glass_buttons.shtml

Nightshade AKA Skitzo
Master of Mahem
Reign Of Choas

Xdreamer.ch
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 06-29-2004 23:08

Check out euros chrome tutorial for the reflections. Its very simple but the endproduct is great. It all depends on reclections...

http://autobliss.com/euro/learn.htm

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 06-30-2004 16:41

Of course I know that particular Google ball isn't white?

I know about the reflections, too but I can't find any good image to reflect and if the reflection is white you won't see it as nice until you have strong light : dark spots.

I'll check out the tutos... maybe I'll make the ball black in the end (it's for a skin). Or I model it...

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 06-30-2004 18:24

Mobrul's point was that what we generally see as "white" is very rarely (if ever) actually white.

One of the biggest stumbling blocks people tend to have when recreating such an item is trying to make it white.

The best possible thing you can do is continue to collect references. Find images, look at real life examples as much as possible.

Get to know exactly what is making the ball look like it does. Notice where and how it tends to reflect light, how visible any imagery reflected on its surface tends to be, etc.

To many people, that advice sounds obvious and useless. But it is the single most important thing you can do - OBSERVE.

Most of the time such things boil down to a simple gradient with well places highlights.

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 06-30-2004 19:02

I know I have to observe, but I simply can't get the look. That ball in the example is just little gradient with a reflection of a guy outside or a window... It also isn't white. It is bone brown (it's a billard ball finally).

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 06-30-2004 20:35

Why don't you show us what you have done so far.

It's rather difficult to give someone advice on what direction to go when you don't know where they are....

synax
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Cell 666
Insane since: Mar 2002

posted posted 07-01-2004 02:27


Grab the .PSD


Tweak it a little and you'll have your billiard ball. You have permission to use this as reference, but please don't use it directly.

"Nothin' like a pro-stabbin' from a pro." -Weadah

MalFunkShun
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: PA
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 07-01-2004 03:10

I too am no artist but I have had a class or two that have helped me observe objects. Your image the ball seems to be floating in thin air. The ambient light and the shinny surface of the ball will reflect the felt of the table and give it a slightly blue-green tint. I'm seeing some blue shade in your image but it doesn't seem strong enough to connect the two objects. You have multiple light sources hitting the ball and I can barely make out two in your drop shadow. I would also think that the shadow on the left side of the ball needs to expand out just a little bit further. Maybe add a little more perspective to the felt and it should loose focus on the felt at a point. As for getting a good reflection on the ball those chrome tuts should help you out alot.

I tried a few things mentioned above and this is what i came up with. I still don't think the shadowing is right in mine. but you can take a look at it.



EDIT: big time mistake. I thought that was the original post Arnitald's PSD and I was trying to build upon it. I appologize. But Swatz that's definately a great base for him to start I was able to get the look above by duplicating and tweaking 2 or 3 layers.

(Edited by MalFunkShun on 07-01-2004 04:47)

trib
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Den Haag, Netherlands
Insane since: Sep 2002

posted posted 07-01-2004 09:28

It's all in the reflections ... look at the original ball and see what's there ...

... see the room ?? Spend some time observing shiny spheres, especially in light/dark environments like on a desk near a window. Move up and down in relation to the ball and observe the relationship between the upper and lower curvatures of the reflection as you shift your viewing angle ...

OK ... tired eyes yet?? ... No?? .. good ... let's take Synax's original ball above, nice render, no reflections ... To add reflections, find a photo to suit your requirements and distort it a bit.

then sphereise it, twirl it, liquefy it, until you get what might look like a spherical reflection of the original. Then cut a round piece out of it, paste it into your ball, and set layer blending/Opacity to overlay/30-50%.

Liberal use of liquefy and the eraser at about 30% opacity will tidy up the edges and make its curvatures fit to the viewing angle and object angles of the reflected objects ... and ... remember to coincide the bright spot of your reflected image with the brightest spot of your rendered ball, then it all drops into place nicely.



Not particularly good, but OK for a 10 minute tweak, and I think you get the idea.

For more stuff search the Asylum for DocileBob and Steve. They're much better than me at this sort of thing, and you'll probably find posts by them on the same sort of questions. For proper image distortion (rather than my twist it and see approach) look for any of WarJournal's displace tutorials (also on here).


Bug-free software only exisits in two places
In a programmer's mind and on a salesman's lips

(Edited by trib on 07-01-2004 09:40)

docilebob
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: buttcrack of the midwest
Insane since: Oct 2000

posted posted 07-01-2004 15:57

~thanks, trib~

Not really much to ad to the advise already given..It is all about the reflections. The thing about doing 3D stuff in Photoshop is that you have to think a bit in three dimentions. You seem to have the info you need, it`s all in the detainls from here. Those details depend on the environment your ball is in. (and what you have so far.) Is it on a pool table ? In your hand ? Falling from an airplane ?
Also, the displace map can serve you well, here as trib mentioned.
What you see of the reflection depends entirely on what`s being reflected. In a white room, on a light colored table, you woun`t see much. And so on...

Let`s see where you are with it, and we can go from there.

synax
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Cell 666
Insane since: Mar 2002

posted posted 07-01-2004 16:42

You should have enough tips now to achieve the desired effect.

Don't let me down by not showing us your efforts.

"Nothin' like a pro-stabbin' from a pro." -Weadah

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 07-01-2004 19:21

Oh that is great. Thank you all very much. I was not talking about this particular ball (so don't worry I won't use it anywhere) but about the surface. It was very helpful. I just wonder if you created the reflections by hand (brushes) or by filters.

Here is where I need the surface. Please don't comment on other stuff since I had not much time to work on anything in this skin (so nothing ugly is final). I added a simple circle reflection of the ball in the front already (more details will be added to the reflection to simulate detail on the back of the ball).

As you can see I have light from the up in form of a bright lamp. The darkest spot will be under the pipe (no shadow yet). Also I plan to reflect the light of the volume block (after I
decided on the form and ammount of lights etc).



Suggestions are welcome as always. I would like to know if brushes is the right approach... or just try everything I know about.

(Edited by Arnitald on 07-01-2004 19:24)

synax
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Cell 666
Insane since: Mar 2002

posted posted 07-02-2004 14:12

Don't forget to reflect the other objects the white ball is attached to. Once you do that, you'll have a realistic-ish object.

"Nothin' like a pro-stabbin' from a pro." -Weadah

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 07-02-2004 14:59

Yup I'll remember that.

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 07-02-2004 19:27

I would have another question... I won't start a new thread.

I have the problem with the masking of layer styles. I will describe it with this illustration:



As you can see I have created two layer sets for the volume block (the ring). To the right you can see the style for the clicked stage. (active, on, whatever) To the left is logically the off stage. But since this should be a slider I need more stages than on and off, so I decided to use layer mask to subdivide the ring and simulate a slider by contracting the mask.

Here is where I get the problem displayed in the third image from the left and in the two close-ups. Because my styles contain multiple glow effects on different blending modes and mix up with the colors of the surface (white ball), I am not able to simply merge these style sets and mask them easily. I have to use the unmerged sets. But if you mask a layer with a style, this style (glow) is not cut sharply as your mask (right image). The style is simulated like only the holding shape was sharply cut. This results in overblending to the next sections of the volume block (black arrows).

I tried diverse methods of merging and masking but I can't find one, which would cut the style sharply. Is there a possibility to cut off the styles easily. I have the feeling sometimes Photoshop is a bit too intelligent.

I hope you can understand my problem and have some solutions to it.

(Edited by Arnitald on 07-02-2004 19:32)

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 07-06-2004 19:48

Does nobody know?

EzRa-D
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Dec 2002

posted posted 07-06-2004 22:06
quote:
Is there a possibility to cut off the styles easily?



youll need to rasterize the layer effects to cut that off directly

i think your trying to apply a style to a selection layer? if thats the case you can just make a duplicate selection layer w/ styles and merge it with a blank layer and with the selection inversed you can erase the parts of the glow you dont want. then you can delete the original selection layer , rinse and repeat for each different level of the volume slider.

hope that helps maybe?

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 07-07-2004 08:12

Hm as I said I can't simply merge them because I have some glows there on Color Dodge... and if you merge them they change colors. FInally I will have to take the whole ball cutout to animate it, but that is not important yet...

Thanks anyway.

docilebob
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: buttcrack of the midwest
Insane since: Oct 2000

posted posted 07-09-2004 01:35

If you merge them into a blank layer, as EzRa-D suggested, the colors should remain constant.
Turn off all non-merging layers and CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+N (new layer) then CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+E (merge visible).

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 07-10-2004 09:11

Then I would have to merge it with the white background the preserve the valuable color information...

Hey and by the way (and I could swear I have posted this yesterday,but somehow it dissappeared), does anybody know about some good tutorials about reflections. I am more interested in theory, how the reflection on different shapes are shaped, how the intensity blurs on different surfaces etc. I know something about it through observation but I would like to gain the most possible insights to improve myself. I will also post the skin here sometimes so you can critisize me and show me where to do it better...

Bye!

Xdreamer.ch
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 07-10-2004 23:53

Do NOT merge the layers since it's not needed. I hope you're working on photoshop 7 so you can turn on
this option easily.
Go to the layers blending options and check "layer mask hides effect"...that should do the job :-]

docilebob
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: buttcrack of the midwest
Insane since: Oct 2000

posted posted 07-11-2004 19:32
quote:
Then I would have to merge it with the white background the preserve the valuable color information...



Not necessarily. If it`s the white background that`s generating the color information, simply make the desired selection, open the fill dialog, (SHIFT+BACKSPACE) and select Use : White , Blending mode : Behind.
Or place the selection of white on a new layer and merge it with the others.
I suggested this method because it gives you a copy of the effects you wish on it`s own layer, so you can manipulate it as desired, without changing or destroying the original set.

Xdreamers.ch`s suggestion wil work also, but any changes will affect the original.
Always lots of paths to achieve a goal in Photoshop.

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 07-12-2004 21:34

Yes I understand what you meant and I will do it in later stages, when I will slicing it.

But this really got me, (I am so dumb):

quote:
Go to the layers blending options and check "layer mask hides effect"...that should do the job :-]



Thanks, that is exactly what I looked for and I knew it was somewhere... I just didn't checked the options... I always straightly go to the effects... Oh my god . Thank you guys.

bramer
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: CUCKOO´S NEST
Insane since: Dec 2001

posted posted 07-20-2004 02:12

nice tries mates!


...L i v E to L e a r N...

EzRa-D
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Dec 2002

posted posted 07-21-2004 22:46

wow, i didnt know about that either thanks X !

Xdreamer.ch
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 07-22-2004 11:50

Thats why I am born :-]

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 07-23-2004 18:13

Hey, hey, it wasn't that much of work for you .

Some updates, no time now to continue much:

EzRa-D
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Dec 2002

posted posted 07-24-2004 01:00

looking good! is this going to be a skin for a media player or something?

Moth
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: columbus, ohio, usa
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 07-24-2004 05:38

I was thinking the same thing.


Life's too short to put up with bad art.

White Hawk
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: out of nowhere...
Insane since: May 2004

posted posted 07-25-2004 02:25

Arnitald said:

quote:
I had not much time to work on anything in this skin


quote:
As you can see I have created two layer sets for the volume block ... since this should be a slider I need more stages than on and off...



Hmmm. The clues are there, lads. The clues are there, somewhere...

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 07-25-2004 12:27

Yes, I'll see for what version, though. Yes a media player.

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 07-27-2004 14:46

Could you tell me how to apply and adjustment layer only to some layers?

OlssonE
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Eagleshieldsbay, Sweden
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted posted 07-27-2004 16:28

You would use layer sets for that.

code:
Creating new layers and layer sets

You can create empty layers and add content to them, or you can create new layers from existing content.
When you create a new layer, it appears either above the selected layer or within the selected layer set in the Layers palette.

To create a new layer or layer set using default options:

Click the New Layer button New button or New Layer Set button Create a New Set button in the Layers palette.

To create a new layer or layer set and specify options:

1. Do one of the following:
* Choose Layer > New > Layer or choose Layer > New > Layer Set.
* Choose New Layer or New Layer Set from the Layers palette menu.
* Alt-click (Windows) or Option-click (Mac OS) the New Layer button or New Layer Set button in the Layers palette.
* Ctrl-click (Windows) or Command-click (Mac OS) the New Layer button or New Layer Set button in the Layers palette to
add a layer below the currently selected layer.
2. Set layer options, and click OK:
* Name to specify a name for the layer or layer set. (See Renaming layers.)
* Use Layer Below to Create Clipping Mask. This option is not available for layer sets. (See Creating clipping masks.)
* Color to assign a color to the layer or layer set. (See Color coding layers.)
* Mode to specify a blending mode for the layer or layer set. (See Choosing a blending mode.)
* Opacity to specify an opacity level for the layer or layer set. (See Setting layer opacity.)
* (Photoshop) Fill with Mode-neutral color to fill the layer with a preset, neutral color.
(See Filling new layers with a neutral color.)

Tip iconTo create a new layer that uses the style of an existing layer, see Applying preset styles.

To create a new layer with the same effects as an existing layer (ImageReady):

1. Select the existing layer in the Layers palette.
2. Drag the layer to the New Layer button at the bottom of the Layers palette. The newly created layer
contains all the effects of the existing one.

To copy a layer set:

Drag an existing layer set to the New Layer button.

To convert a selection into a new layer:

1. Make a selection.
2. Do one of the following:
* Choose Layer > New > Layer Via Copy to copy the selection into a new layer.
* Choose Layer > New > Layer Via Cut to cut the selection and paste it into a new layer.

To create a new layer set from linked layers:

Choose Layer > New > Layer Set from Linked. (See Linking layers.)

To add new or existing layers to a layer set:

Do one of the following:
* Select the layer set in the Layers palette and click the New Layer button New button.
* Drag a layer to the layer set folder.
* Drag a layer set folder into another layer set folder. The layer set and all of its layers move.

To nest layer sets:

Drag an existing layer set to the New Layer Set button Create a New Set button .

Previous | Next | Top | Using Layers > Creating layers and layer sets





(Edited by OlssonE on 07-27-2004 16:30)

(Edited by OlssonE on 07-27-2004 17:09)

docilebob
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: buttcrack of the midwest
Insane since: Oct 2000

posted posted 07-27-2004 16:37

Only way I know of would be to clip an Adjustment Layer to each Layer that needs adjusting.
If they require the same adjustment, copy the Adjustment Layer and drag it down(or up) int the stack and clip it to the new layer.

Moth
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: columbus, ohio, usa
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 07-27-2004 23:30

White Hawk , you got me.

Serves me right for just skimming a thread.


OlssonE, thanks for posting the info about layer sets. Is your sig a hurlbat?


Life's too short to put up with bad art.

OlssonE
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Eagleshieldsbay, Sweden
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted posted 07-28-2004 16:32

No, If it were an 'hurl axe' then the blade would be equally big one both sides...
I think it more as an skull cracking axe.
Just have to add a skull.



edit: Typos.... daaam

(Edited by OlssonE on 07-28-2004 16:32)

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 08-02-2004 15:54

Well I am going away for two weeks... I wished I could go both camping and doing this .

theGuest
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Vancouver, BC Canada
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 08-03-2004 11:30

I concure whole-heartedly! Small details are very important.


Thought i may as well jump in on this, even if i AM late.

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