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mobrul
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-15-2004 21:31

I'm been charged with "fancying" a logo.
What follows is the letter "C". It's supposed to look like shiny, beveled metal (chrome or the like). The top of the "C" is supposed to represent a blade edge; curved like a saber or a scimitar.
This is my first go.
Any comments, critiques, pointers or anything else even close to helpful would be highly appreciated.


Bigger

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 09-15-2004 21:55

So, is there an existing logo that you are working from, or are you creating from scratch?

My intitial thought on the shape is that it is just...kind of "squished" looking. The curves could really be much more elegant.

As for the metal effect, it comes off rather weak overall. The top half of the C isn't too bad, but the bottom half seems almost totally neglected.

OVerall the feeling is much more plastic than metal. The reason is the large amount of flat grey. It needs more bright highlights, more dark shadows. It could definately stand some sort of reflection, or the imitation thereof. This could actually take care of the need for better highlights/shadows at the same time even.

It's hard to get much more specific though, without knowing if you can alter the shape, and what the intended use of the logo is.

mobrul
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-15-2004 22:12

The shape is set. In fact, this is just a small part of the overall logo...a test case for the metal, if you will. When I get this shiny-metal-w/-blade-edge thing down well, I'll apply it to the entire logo.

I'll get to adding more contrasty highlights and shadows.
In the meantime, any clues, helps, resources for accomplishing that?

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 09-15-2004 22:30

My preferred method is to use a suitable photo and displace it (see Steve's tutorial at the GN) using the logo's shape and shading. Play around with opacity and blending mode.

After that, some hand-tweaking is usually in order with the paint brush, as welss as blurs, curves adjustments and so on.

The intention is not to have something recognizable in the reflection (though you certainly can if you like), but to add the oh-so-familiar streaks, swirls, and otherwise almost random contour markings on the surface. It also amplifies your highlights and shadows when done right.

Can we get a look at the existing logo, for curiosity's sake?



(Edited by DL-44 on 09-15-2004 22:32)

mobrul
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-15-2004 22:51

Take 2

Bigger

Cutting Edge Cycles - Full Logo (scanned pen drawing)

(Edited by mobrul on 09-15-2004 22:52)

ink_e
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Los Angeles
Insane since: Jun 2003

posted posted 09-15-2004 22:57

A much more successful attempt at a metal surface. With a look at the full logo, this should be nice when it is done. I like your shadows, nice attention to detail. You're definitely heading in the right direction. I would second DL's suggestion to use a photo and displace it, not quite sure if this technique is being used here. Nice job.

mobrul
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-15-2004 23:08

Take 3
(If fast cycles of production and testing works in programming, it must work in graphics, rigtht? =)


Bigger

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 09-16-2004 02:16

Definately heaps better.

You've got a good feeling of depth and substance.

I don't care for the banded area at the top right, but that can be easily worked with. There are also some jaggies here and there that need some smoothing out.

The overall is quite nice though - good work.

-


As for the logo itself - aside from the very blatant relation to some other logo, it is very crowded, hard to read, and overly complex. The arrangement of the letters is painful quite honestly.
I realize you may not be able to do anything about that...but I had to say it.

mobrul
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-16-2004 14:57

Thanks.
You are right - there's nothing I can do about the shape of the logo. Actually, I kinda liked the complex shapes. I am a little concerned when you say "very blatant relation to some other logo..."
Which?

I think I have the basic techniques down. I'll continue to post each piece as I accomplish them. Please continue the critiques, if you all have the time.
There is much I can learn.

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 09-16-2004 16:01

The more I look at your last attempt, the more I like it. You've definately acheived a good hard-cold metal feeling.

As for the logo - http://www.orangecountychoppers.com/

Obviously it's different enough not to have to worry about copyright issues, and goes more down the 'tribal' path, but...

Making the letters fit the shape of a bike is fine as an idea, and certain parts of this are well enough conceived....but things just seem crammed in there - it's contrived rather than fitting 'naturally'.

Simply taking the same concept and cleaning up all the curves (and that is really a huge issue. the curves here are so akward that it kills the intent) and the spatial relationship between the letters would go *very* long way.

docilebob
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: buttcrack of the midwest
Insane since: Oct 2000

posted posted 09-16-2004 16:20

Not much to add, just wanted to say this is looking much better.
Have to agree with DL-44 about the "bar" on the wide part of the blade. Only suggestion at this point would be to displace a photo of one of their motorcycles across the logo, and a highlight or two using the same D-map.

mobrul
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-16-2004 20:51

Take 4

Bigger

Adjusted color to suit client better (still not satisfied, but we're working.)
Adjusted banding to suit DL and Mr. Bob =)
Added some knicks to blade to suit client's business partner.
Adjusted bevel at far left and bottom points to suit me!

You're right, DL, it does have the same feel as OCC. I wonder if that was done on purpose...
I had nothing to do with the creation process whatsoever. I guess it's too late now, and client doesn't seem to be worried. His business plan, not mine. His ass, not mine...
Thanks for the continuing critique and help through this process.

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: France
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 09-16-2004 21:21

wow! That "C" rocks!
Finally do you use any Dmap or a combination of standard layer styles ? If there's a Dmap, is it "simply" a sort of elevation map based on the inner edge of the blade or is it more elaborated ?

JKMabry
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: raht cheah
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-16-2004 21:32

nice stuff, I think you've taken care of the big problems of the jaggy spots, smoothed things out a bit, it looks really sharp (no pun). For my taste though the reflection is a bit too detailed, looks almost like damascus steel type markings.

Daggum nice overall.

mobrul
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-16-2004 22:39

A few jaggy problems and some shadow modification aside, we're well on our way to full product.

Bigger

Jason, I don't know what you mean "...almost like damascus steel type markings."

Poi,
The dmapped texture is but one of about 20 layers. I used a photograph of a nicely set kitchen table - a flower centerpiece, candles, wine bottle, shiny crystal...lots of good contrasty things. I followed DL's advice of reading Steve's tutorial at the GN and it was very helpful.
The dmap itself was basically the same as the height map, with some minor modifications.
On top of that, however, I did a fair amount of curves adjustments and then some handpainting to bring out the shadows and highlights that were missing.

I'd be happy to give you my psd file (or anybody else, really). What's the best method of getting that to you?

(Edited by mobrul on 09-16-2004 22:40)

JKMabry
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: raht cheah
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-16-2004 23:34

damascus steel

lost some depth on the bottom of the E there but I'm taken aback by your photoshopping, didn't know you had it in you

mobrul
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-17-2004 00:14

Ah! Damascus steel I now understand...and it was one of the things that was bugging the hell out of me (though I didn't know it actually looked like something!). Especially on the bottom edge of the first "C". I agree with your critique of the E (and the same could be said of parts of the bottom "C" too).
I've tried a few things to fix those problems (and clean some jaggies while I was there.)
Here is where I am now, and I'm feeling quite stuck. I'm not sure I like the direction I'm heading, but I don't know how to turn around.
Maybe just sleep on it...

I don't think it's fair to say I "had it in [me]." Really, I'd say I was the mildly intelligent minion of DL, Docilebob, JK and others...for I certainly wouldn't have been able to pull this off without your pushings in the right directions. Thanks.

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