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Black Hat
Obsessive-Compulsive (I) Inmate

From: Sin City (Can you guess where?)
Insane since: Sep 2004

posted posted 09-21-2004 13:01

I was on a BB earlier today and one of the marines that has been serving in Iraq had this to say in a heated debate about the war in Iraq:

quote:
Well, it's certainly been a sprited discussion so far... :lol: I am new to this particular board, but wanted to weigh in on the subject just a bit.

I have served in Iraq twice so far, in '91 and last year during the invasion, so naturally I have thoughts on the war. Yes, I feel that we were right to go into Iraq, and that it has largely been a success. There have been some unfortunate occurances, such as civilians being hit, but that is almost unavoidable. As another poster said, no one is trying to hit civilians. Technology has allowed us to keep civilian casualties far lower than any war in history. (Vietnam's civilian count was in the millions) We are tryng to avoid civilian casualties; believe that.

I feel we should have closed the borders after the invasion to keep out the extremists who insist on stirring up trouble. New ideas are needed in Iraq.

Chemical weapons? The CIA put out a full report on Iraq in October 2002. You can read it for yourself HERE. It's a very clear picture, and paints Iraq as a serious threat, which it was. The CIA showed no doubt that WMD were there. The big secret: I believe they were correct. My own unit had to purify water sources contaminated with blister agent, and we had 30 men go down with chemical symptoms after moving empty barrels that later tested positive for VX nerve. Saddam had several months to hide his stock or get it out of the country, and I believe he did. Would have been relatively easy with a truck here and there.

Did the Iraqi people need to be freed? Absolutely. I heard firsthand from the people themselves about the mutilation, torture, rape squads, prisons for children (where they took your children when you spoke out against the government).
I saw the autopsy tables and hooks in the ceiling in Uday's basement. I heard how there was no health care, that if a woman had complications during childbirth "she died at home". I asked a man in Baghdad if it was really that bad, and he told me if I wanted to understand I should "get together everyone who has had an ear cut off by the government".

I was first convinced beyond doubt that we were right to be there when we rolled into Baghdad and the streets were lined with thousands of people, screaming, crying, cheering, and kissing US flags.

Having been there and talked with the Iraqi people and seen what they were going through, I remain convinced that the war is right, and that the next generation of Iraqis will be much better off than the one before.

Have we done any good? Of course; a small list:
-More than 2,300 schools rehabilitated, nearly 900 more underway. 4,500 new schools to be built over the next four years.

-More than 32,000 secondary school teachers and 3,000 supervisors trained.

-Entry-level teacher monthly salaries raised from a pre-war $5 to $66.

-Over eight million new textbooks printed and distributed.

-More than 180,000 desks, 61,000 chalk boards, 808,000 primary student kits and 81,000 teacher kits distributed.

-More than 150,000 Iraqis including 75,000 new police, are now protecting their fellow citizens. This is more than the number of Coalition forces.

-Forty-six of the 55 most wanted Saddam Hussein regime members have been captured or killed.

-The Coalition continues to mount aggressive offensives against the remnants of Saddam Hussein’s regime and foreign terrorists.

-Electricity levels exceeded pre-war capacity in early fall of 2003.

-Schools, clinics and hospitals have been renovated and reopened.

-Iraq’s 2004 budget for health care is $950 million; Saddam Hussein’s regime spent $16 million on health care in 2002.

-Power plants, water and sanitation facilities, bridges and roads are being rehabilitated.

-Iraq’s oil infrastructure is being rebuilt, with the Iraqi industry already producing 2.5 million barrels of oil daily.

-Small businesses are thriving in the streets of Iraq – creating new jobs for Iraqis.

-Iraq has a stable currency. The value of the new Iraqi dinar has already risen 25 percent.

-Women’s Centers have been opened throughout the country to offer vocational training and educational opportunities.

We aren't just sitting around; we're working to rebuuild the country better than Saddam had it (not too hard- he treated his people terribly). I'm hearing rumors that I may be headed back around the first of the year, so I may be able to update things from a closer perspective... >_<
If you want to check out some of my pictures from Iraq, swing by my web site at http://www.ilikelife.com .

-Outshined
[right][snapback]1023899[/snapback][/right]



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"I think Bush is an idiot... I think Kerry is an even bigger idiot! Vote Bush 2004!"

bodhi23
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Greensboro, NC USA
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 09-21-2004 15:09

Nice to have the perspective of someone who was actually there. I'm not sure I completely agree with him, but the pictures on his website were certainly interesting to look at...

Black Hat
Obsessive-Compulsive (I) Inmate

From: Sin City (Can you guess where?)
Insane since: Sep 2004

posted posted 09-21-2004 15:41

Yeah they shed some light on the way the people were living and what an asshole Saddam really was... Did you see that lizard? I want one

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"I think Bush is an idiot... I think Kerry is an even bigger idiot! Vote Bush 2004!"

metahuman
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: meme-contagion
Insane since: Aug 2003

posted posted 09-21-2004 20:39

Hrm, I wonder if I have a copy of an e-mail to sent to a friend of my dad's sent to my dad from Vice Admiral LaFleur who was in Afghanistan... mrmm....

krets
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Right-dead center
Insane since: Nov 2002

posted posted 09-22-2004 03:09

Some of those pictures of Saddam's palaces were amazing. Talk about decadent...

:::11oh1:::

tntcheats
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: BC, Canada
Insane since: Jun 2004

posted posted 09-22-2004 03:38

Yes, the lizards do look damn cool.

-----------------------------------------------------
funny websites | funny signatures | funny jokes

Ozone Asylum KILLED my inner child.

Black Hat
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Sin City (Can you guess where?)
Insane since: Sep 2004

posted posted 09-22-2004 04:06



quote:
One of the desert lizards that GI's are fascinated with. They hit you with their spiked tails when provoked.



"They hit you with their spiked tail when provoked"... Is anyone thinking that this lizard is the decendant of the Club Tail dinosaur?

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"I think Bush is an idiot... I think Kerry is an even bigger idiot! Vote Bush 2004!"

bodhi23
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Greensboro, NC USA
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 09-22-2004 17:46

I actually had that very thought, Black Hat...

...along with a thought about how the soldiers know it swats at you when provoked... must have been some provoking of the lizard going on there...
heh...

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: France
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 09-22-2004 20:56

From an actual woman who was in Abu Ghraib

Black Hat
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Sin City (Can you guess where?)
Insane since: Sep 2004

posted posted 09-23-2004 00:49

That's seriously fucked up... It really is... What our troops did... I disown them!

That is the type of shit that is causing Iraqi people to hate us...

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"I think Bush is an idiot... I think Kerry is an even bigger idiot! Vote Bush 2004!"

tntcheats
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: BC, Canada
Insane since: Jun 2004

posted posted 09-23-2004 02:54

Black Hat, other countries have always hated America.

-----------------------------------------------------
funny websites | funny signatures | funny jokes

Ozone Asylum KILLED my inner child.

Karl
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Phoenix
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 09-23-2004 05:11

Operation Iraqi Freedom is not over -- it will be a struggle, there will be casualties (of both Iraqi citizens and American and Coalition forces). And yes, there will even be the horrible beheadings which these animals will inflict upon our innoccent.
However, the purpose of this war serves a much greater cause. These unfortunate events, including the accounts of Alazawi are unfortunate, but, think of how unfortunate it must have been to live under the evil dictatorship of Sadam. Imagine the constant fear which must have resided in the back of most Iraqi's minds that without warnings Saddam's henchman might show up on your doorstep to cart away your brother or your father. I say FUCK Sadam! And I say, FUCK all those who do not support the Americans and their effort to make this planet a safer and better place.
Don't think we have not suffered and don't think that this war does not come at a cost.
I weeped when I heard of the beheadings.
I weeped when those children were slaughtered.
I weeped when 2 towers came crumbling down.
I weeped when a free and proud Iraqi olympic team was introduced during the opening ceremonies.
We will prevail, just as we have in the past.

God Bless America.

Karl

Ramasax
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: PA, US
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 09-23-2004 06:01

Geez, and here I was expecting this thread to be entirely anti-US as per usual around these parts. I'm kind of disappointed.

Ramasax

tntcheats
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: BC, Canada
Insane since: Jun 2004

posted posted 09-23-2004 06:09

USA 5(_)><0|2z t3h c0x!1111!1 l0lz!11!1111111einz!1!111!!!111acht!111!!11!!schenken!11!1!10!(!!(10!)1111!!!!1

happy Ramasax?

-----------------------------------------------------
funny websites | funny signatures | funny jokes

Ozone Asylum KILLED my inner child.

Ramasax
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: PA, US
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 09-23-2004 06:44

That's certainly original. You get an A for effort.

Ramasax

bodhi23
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Greensboro, NC USA
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 09-23-2004 14:24

Ok, I tried to stop myself, but I have to do it - bad grammar is a curse on the world.

Karl, no offense, the past tense of WEEP is WEPT. (but I get your point)

I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion...

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-23-2004 17:06

This is one sad thread...

WebShaman | Asylum D & D | D & D Min Page

Karl
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Phoenix
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 09-23-2004 22:56

Agreed, that was poor grammar.

(Edited by Karl on 09-23-2004 22:56)

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-27-2004 10:30

No, sad, because it misses the mark, totally. It was never really a question, of whether or not the removal of Saddam was good or not for the Iraqi people.

Aside from questions, on how the actual...situation in Iraq is going (and how it was done), the real point is, why Iraq, when Al-Qaida is still out there and Afghanistan is still being contested?

Oh wait...right, Weapons of Mass Destruction, exactly.

Oh, yeah, this is supposed to be part of the War on Terror...

Lessee...North Korea exploded something, has admitted to having Nukes, and is close to perfecting its missle technology (including more tests). Oh, and Iran are going ahead with its nuclear plans, as well...and Afghanistan is being hotly contested, with areas where the American Military only goes in force...Al-Qaida is still out there...so is Bin Laden...

I know! Let's go into Iraq, and get rid of Saddam!

I don't know about anyone else, but can someone please point out the logic here to me?

WebShaman | Asylum D & D | D & D Min Page

metahuman
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: meme-contagion
Insane since: Aug 2003

posted posted 09-27-2004 10:34

I think Saddam Hussein knew a second invasion of Iraq (aka. "Bush's War") would be merely personal which is why he issued a personal challenge to brawl to Bush sometime ago.

Wars should be fought by the men who start them.

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: France
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 09-27-2004 11:27

More than 150,000 Iraqis including 75,000 new police, are now protecting their fellow citizens. Really ??

Several days ago, I've a seen in the evening news a journalist women, who just came back from Bagdad. She said that the new school year ( including in Uni ) have been delayed, that the situation is rather chaotic in Iraq : The people working for western companies have to claim they work for Iraqi companies by fear to be taken in hostage or be victim of attacks.

I've also seen a report made in an open market in Bagdad where people show the videos of, what they call ,the "Iraqi resistance" ( in fact it's more the Abu Musab al-Zarqawi terrorist movement than a movement of resistance against the occupation of Iraq ) and the beheadings in loop and sell some DVDs of it. That point raises one question : if a journalist have absolutely no difficulty to find a person buying some videos to the "Iraqi resistance", how is it possible that the intelligence services haven't found Abu Musab al-Zarqawi so far ? The little resellers in the market could be either followed or caught and questionned to get the location of their contacts and so on. Ok, it seems they are getting closer to find/kill him, but Zarqawi is acting since a while now.

WebShaman: You forget to mention Saudi Arabia. There's many people out there funding Al-Qaida and the likes, but the "war on terror" seems blinded by the millions of barrels Saudi Arabia can extract daily and the 60years old relations between the USA and Saudi Arabia.

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-27-2004 12:12

No, I didn't forget...I just consider that which I did mention, to be of a higher priority.
The US is currently fighting on 4 different fronts...westill have Afghanistan, then that against Al-Qaida, the War on Terror, and then there is Iraq.
Some may atempt, to "lump" it all together, under the term "War On Terror", but it is still 4 fronts, irregardless of what one wants to call it.

That is one hell of a lot of fronts!

WebShaman | Asylum D & D | D & D Min Page

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 09-27-2004 12:16

"A brave man fights a war on two fronts, a fool on three. What would you call a man who fights a war on four fronts?"

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-27-2004 12:35

Ummm...George W. Bush?

WebShaman | Asylum D & D | D & D Min Page

Babamba
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: here
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 10-01-2004 01:26

I know I'm really late in posting this, but I'd just like to shed some light on the lizard you all want It's commonly refered to as a "uromastyx". I am unsure of the exact species from that pic-it doesn't show size, undusty lizard, etc. They are available as pets here in the US and make very interesting captives. Their size ranges from about 12"-36" depending on the species, and some are very colorful.

They are vegetarians and like very hot, dry environments(ie, desert). They also tame down very easily and won't whip you with their tails after a small efort is made to handle them often. They will also just sit in your hand, on your lap, or anywhere else and aren't skittish at all.

I'll shut up now to prevent everyone from thinking i'm a geek

~babamba
Spam is yummy

Black Hat
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Sin City (Can you guess where?)
Insane since: Sep 2004

posted posted 10-02-2004 03:54

You know what.. That lizard in that pic is 32" long... You say they are sold here in the USA as pets? WHERE!? Im going to buy one!

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Babamba
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: here
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 10-04-2004 18:43

At 32" long, that would be Uromastyx aegyptius aegyptius, the Egyptian Uromastyx. This site is owned by a very reputable breeder, and he produces excellent animals: http://www.urotopia.com/ He can also make sure that you know all there is to know about keeping/raising it.

~babamba
Spam is yummy

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