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Nimraw
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Sthlm, Sweden
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 01-08-2005 23:36

I've finally manage to finish an old drawing that has been haunting me for a while.

This particular one is pretty much done, but I'd appreciate any C&C you can give me so that I might improve for the next one.


clicky


Thanks



(Edited by Nimraw on 01-08-2005 23:37)

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 01-09-2005 00:45

*Looks puzzled for a moment*

That looks strangely like Shiiizzam. Name matches too...

Damn good work though, I personally can't find anything to fault on it, but I'm not that good, so anything better than my own pathetic efforts looks great to me


Justice 4 Pat Richard

(Edited by Skaarjj on 01-09-2005 00:48)

mas
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: the space between us
Insane since: Sep 2002

posted posted 01-09-2005 00:49

yeah man...this IS our nurse i think. great painting btw

DarkGarden
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: in media rea
Insane since: Jul 2000

posted posted 01-09-2005 01:21

*cracks knuckles* Let's get started


Depth: Depth is your friend, and it's defined by tone and value. Depth is NOT defined by extreme contrast...soak that in for a second. Having a piece that's mostly white with a few darkened down areas doesn't display depth, contour, shape or curve. You need to be more honest with your values, stop being scared to put the pencil on the paper alot. If you darken down too much, use an eraser, titanium white, conte crayon, whatever you wish...but you need to even your tone then work from there.

Shadow: Don't just look at your photo reference, turn it over. Look just at your piece and the source of light you have. Think how the shadows will cast on the face...from hair, glasses, contour of the head...now put them in. Yeah, That's Right, look away from your reference and think of the light. Even if they don't occur quite that way in the photo, who gives a fuck, you're being honest with your work. Now, darken down again...you look terrified to smear or get in it.

Thin Line: Thin lines with nothing around them are not your friend. You're trying to do gradient penciling, but you have tiny little lines defining the edges of eyes and brows etc. That's drawing a stick man...stop it. Again, get the edge of your pencil in there, change the angle, get flatter...define with shade, not with lines. People's eyelashes are NOT 12 congruent lines from their eyes...darken around those eyes, get a smear of tone on those lashes and brows, then tighten up a bit.

It's a good start...the form seems right, your lines are close...now give me something to bite into...ditch the fear. If you can't get rid of it now, try doing a few speed sketches of the same piece...three minutes to rough it ALL in with a pencil...tiny pieces, then bigger...rough, then tighter...but no more than three minutes. You'll see, it'll start coming.

Now run....run back to it and make it better...or start again...or start something new...but learn

Peter

CPrompt
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: there...no..there.....
Insane since: May 2001

posted posted 01-09-2005 05:24

wow good read DG. I just noticed that there was something funky going on with the angle of the neck. i dig it though

Later,

C:\

Nimraw
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Sthlm, Sweden
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 01-09-2005 15:07

Thanks Peter!
That's exactly what I wanted!

If I could only figure out why the hell I'm so scared at working those tonal values.. Most of my attempts at portraits come out very diluted due to this, and this time I guess I only had the guts to test it in certain areas... I guess who dares wins rings true..

I'll definately do some speed sketches for practice as well as probably go back to work on this some more.
(I spent the morning looking at "good" pencildrawings to learn more about my slips)


I'll also try to work more from logic as you suggest. I was well on my way to add some "logical" shades to this piece, but changed my mind when I could not find them in the photo. oh, well...

Watch this space for more, since I'll be back!

BTW; Skaarjj & mas
That is indeed a portrait of our missing nurse that I promised her ages ago.

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 01-09-2005 15:53
quote:
If I could only figure out why the hell I'm so scared at working those tonal values.. Most of my attempts at portraits come out very diluted due to this



One of the msot common problems out there.

I would like to add that the highlight work is very well done. If you could get the level of clarity into your shadows that you have in your highlights, you'd be all set.

The work on the hair is also quite nice, except in certain areas where it should fade into darker shadow.

The lips are the area that suffer most from the ailments Peter laid out for you - lips are essential to a good portrait. Second area that needs attention is the eyes. I like the crisp outline yuou have on them, but as noted above those lines need support. Those crisp lines will generally butt upagainst some highlight, but then have some good shadows defining the rest of the eyelids/nose etc.

All in all some rather nice work, just needs to be built on.

Nimraw
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Sthlm, Sweden
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 01-16-2005 11:12

OK, this is still in a state of WIP.

Tried adding a lot more lead to the paper, but it still needs to be tightened up.

I've not done much about the hair, but tried to work on the shadows of the face (even though I know I have some time left to spend on both hair and face). This is just a raw scan without any alterations or adjustments in PS.





(Edited by Nimraw on 01-16-2005 11:14)

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 01-16-2005 18:09

what kind of pencil(s) are you using?

it seems, from this, that it might be jsut a regular #2 pencil.

if that is the case, I would highly recommend getting hold of something darker. A good EB pencil is invaluable for dark shadows, and used properly can still yield the lighter shading needed in more delicate areas. {edit - if you find the prospect of an EB pencil a little frightening, I would recommend at least a 4B. easier to manage if you're not used to using such dark leads, but still has enough punch to get what you need here)

I can see areas of improvement, where transitions of height flow smoothly, but it definately needs some bolder shades still.



(Edited by DL-44 on 01-16-2005 18:12)

Nimraw
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Sthlm, Sweden
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 01-17-2005 10:14

I'm using HB, 2B, 4B and to a small amount 6B. (Still afraid of those soft leads I guess).

I'm hoping to get some free time this week to work on this while on the road, and I'm determined to get more punch into it. The scan is a bit lighter than how it really looks, and as you can see I have done very little work in the bottom right part.

I dont know if it's the correct approach but I'm adding a little at the time, being rather careful. Thanks for all the tips though. I think it's going in the right direction even though I have a long road ahead.

Stay tuned for a new scan next weekend.

Morph
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: The Soft Cell
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted posted 01-17-2005 14:24

Have a look at this guy's pencil work: http://chaosartifex.deviantart.com/
some of the best I've seen and it may help.
I too used to be afraid of the soft leads but now I would rarely go harder than HB

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 01-20-2005 16:04

You're not that Nimra from DeviantArt, are you?

(Edited by Arnitald on 01-20-2005 16:05)

Nimraw
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Sthlm, Sweden
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 01-22-2005 00:20

No, unfortunately not

I'm "nimraw" at DA as well. I actually discovered Nimra at DA when I missed a key typing in my own URL.
Now he's awesome!!!

Arnitald
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Germany
Insane since: Apr 2004

posted posted 01-25-2005 12:51

I see. I hope it's just coninsidence that your nicks are similar... you know, all the copy guys around.

Is Nimra somebody or something? And yes, he is a very great artist. I wonder how it is possible to draw -that- realistically.

But you are on a good way to reach that too.

Nimraw
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Sthlm, Sweden
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 01-25-2005 14:42

Nimra is very much "someone" living in Michigan.
Just check out his site: http://arminmersmann.artroof.com/
(seems very slow at the moment)

I would be most flattered if he took his nick after mine (I was at DA 5months before him and have been using Nimraw since golden C64-days), but somehow I doubt it... That would be like Mercedes or Bentley started copying the names of their different models from Skoda or something..
(although Bentley Fabia might work )

The new scan is postponed until the upcoming weekend due to "real life" messing with my ambitions...



(Edited by Nimraw on 01-25-2005 14:46)

Nimraw
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Sthlm, Sweden
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 01-30-2005 17:55

OK, here goes.

Spent a good deal of time on this trying to add more depth. Not sure that I dare to touch it more now, since I'm really in over my head.



Since the last scan I've almost exclusivly used a 8B pencil, eraser and a "stompf" (Don't know if that translates.. Y'know one of those "pencils" entirely made of rolled up paper used for blending and like a "coal paintbrush").


So, give it to me!!
What have I missed? Which parts (if any) are OK and where do I need to focus more?


By the way, if anyone have any good tips for scanning pencil drawings, please help me out.
I've played with Adjust Variations, Multiply and subtle hues on this scan to try to make it more like the real thing, but it just doesn't come out right.. Might be my old Agfa Snapscan, but I'm pretty sure I'm missing something... Should I scan in B/W or RGB?

These are scanned in Colour and then converted to B/W in PS. Unfortunately they seemed "harsher" after the conversion, so I reconverted to RGB and added some "paper warmth" to them.

(edit: Updated image links with the RGB versions)



(Edited by Nimraw on 01-30-2005 18:22)

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 01-31-2005 00:14

overall, a big big improvement. You've managed to keep those nice highlights as well- - good work.

There are a couple trouble spots that could still use some darkening though.

Primary spot is her right eye. The caruncula + semi-lunar fold (the pink goo) is about the same value of the white of the eye, which obscures it. Adding a little more darkness in there will help redefine it. Also, outside of that same eye, in the corner of the nose, the depth is washed out now. Darkening that strecth will help redefine the nose structure, and set the eye back in context. be careful to leave some lightness on the edge of the eye to show that roundess that starts to bulge before the actual eye.

second spot is the lips - just needs all round oomph added.

third is the lens over her left eye. Compared to the other lens, and compared to the highlights on it, it's left a little vague now. Adding jsut a little bit of darker fade near the highlights will pull that back out.

Could also use some more shadow to define the bottom of the nose a touch (under the nose).

I did a quick sloppy overpaint in PS to illustrate some of what I'm saying -
http://in-dented.com/ozone/angel_over.jpg

if that helps at all.

like I said, big improvment. ineveitably though, as some aprts get darker, other parts that were great get left a little behind

{{edit -

quote:
By the way, if anyone have any good tips for scanning pencil drawings, please help me out.



Yeah, I'd be interested as well. Always have big problems getting them to look right =(




(Edited by DL-44 on 01-31-2005 00:15)

Nimraw
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Sthlm, Sweden
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 02-20-2005 19:04

back again.

This is the last take on this particular piece. I realized that some mistakes of mine is too hard to try to correct now, but still I think it has made progress. Managed to totally mess up the lips without finding my way back.

Anyhow, this is where it finished at:


Many thanks for all the good pointers though. I'm just giving up on this particular one, but I'll make sure to have all tips in mind when I start out with the next portrait.

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