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Ensellitis
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Kansas City, MO , USA
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 05-15-2005 00:49

I am working on a new idea for my site...

http://www.ensellitis.com/testing/

Feel free to bash it or compliment it, every opinion is very welcomed. =)

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reisio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Florida
Insane since: Mar 2005

posted posted 05-15-2005 03:03

Fixed width...ewww.
I don't care for scrollable areas that have no border of some sort at least at top/bottom.
Why are you using XHTML?

Other than that the general look is nice enough.

WarMage
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Rochester, New York, USA
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 05-15-2005 03:21

I want to pre-emt your rant against XHTML with my pro-XHTML rant, by saying he is using it because XHTML is the better technology, it is where the standards are going and is XML for all intents and purposes, which is a superior base to work from.

Onto other things, I think you need to spice the page up a bit. It is really really plain. Spend some time with some images, or if you are trying to stay pure. The work in some more colors and some better text treatments. I don't like where you mouse over text comes in, it just seems a little off.

You look to be going in a good direction. It just needs some more work.

Dan @ Code Town

Ensellitis
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Kansas City, MO , USA
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 05-15-2005 04:17

THere will be images, this is just my base. It has alot more work to go...

I am using the XHTML because of all the years I have been doing design, it seems to always remain more cross-browser compliant, and I absolutely love that. Since I have been "pure" I could never go back to tables.

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Ensellitis
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Kansas City, MO , USA
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 05-15-2005 10:46

Ok, just added images and some other little crap to it... I think it is coming along quite nice... =)

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reisio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Florida
Insane since: Mar 2005

posted posted 05-15-2005 17:03
quote:
WarMage said:

I want to pre-emt your rant against XHTML with my pro-XHTML rant, by saying he is using it because XHTML is the better technology, it is where the standards are going and is XML for all intents and purposes, which is a superior base to work from.


I'm actually all for XHTML, but his website isn't XHTML, it's (rendering) HTML...and HTML may as well be coded in HTML.

quote:
Ensellitis said:

THere will be images, this is just my base. It has alot more work to go...I am using the XHTML because of all the years I have been doing design, it seems to always remain more cross-browser compliant, and Iabsolutely love that. Since I have been "pure" I could never go back to tables.:


You can refrain from using tables in HTML 4.01, too, y'know.

HZR
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Cold Sweden
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 05-15-2005 17:28
quote:
WarMage said:
XHTML is the better technology...


... but doesn't work on today's web, hence shouldn't be used.

quote:
Ensellitis said:
I am using the XHTML because of all the years I have been doing design,
it seems to always remain more cross-browser compliant


You can't possibly have an argument backing that up.

quote:
Ensellitis said:
Since I have been "pure" I could never go back to tables.


These are the lamest kinds of arguments in favor of XHTML. I hope you realize that XHTML 1.0 adds nothing over HTML 4 (but the reverse is true).
Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, CSS does work with HTML, and you can abuse tables in XHTML too.

And no, I wouldn't call XHTML as text/html pure.

Sorry for being harsch.

(Edited by HZR on 05-15-2005 17:30)

reisio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Florida
Insane since: Mar 2005

posted posted 05-15-2005 20:57
quote:
HZR said:

(XHTML)...doesn't work on today's web, hence shouldn't be used


Well it's great for lots of things, but, indeed, there's essentially no bonus in using it for a basic website like this, only drawbacks.

WarMage
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Rochester, New York, USA
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 05-16-2005 00:59

That seems rather short sighted. It is the better standard. It might not be implemented correctly in browsers, but as the better standard it make sense to use it. Especially for sites like this where learning is the key.

Just like with CSS support, the browser companies cater to the demand. If they see that this is the way that the technology is going they will follow by coding their browsers to support it. It is the chicken or the egg problem, but if you want to advance the technology you have to pick one, and as a web developer you only have one option, which is to push the technology through use.

Dan @ Code Town

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: France
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 05-16-2005 01:36

[quick_reply] Nothing forbids the web dev(s) to send the appropriate Content-type header according to the HTTP_ACCEPT variable. [/quick_reply]

reisio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Florida
Insane since: Mar 2005

posted posted 05-16-2005 03:02

like I said - XHTML is cool, but...

  • He has no special reason to use it and
  • He's _not_ using it - all that markup is being rendered as HTML



(Edited by reisio on 05-16-2005 03:03)

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 05-16-2005 03:59

If I may interrupt the XHTML/HTML war for a moment...

I'm not too keen on your current navigation. I shouldn't have to rollover a nav link to see what it is. If you want to have the rollover text provide more information, fine, but you shouldn't make that the only information--i.e., the links should be self-explanatory.

Also, why the vertical limitation? I can understand the horizontal fixed width (although I may not agree with it), but why is the content area so short? All that does is increase the amount of scrolling that needs to be done.

OK, that's all. Carry on, soldiers.

___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

wordnerd
Obsessive-Compulsive (I) Inmate

From: Denver, Colorado
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 05-16-2005 19:04

This is a triumph for CSS and XHTML integration. That said, your mystery meat navigation (read: I want to know where I want to go before I even move my mouse) leaves a great deal to be desired.



The purpose of navigation is to give the user the ability to go where he/she wants, yes? To retrieve information in the most efficient way possible, no? That said, the icon-driven system that exists throughout the web does nothing for usability. From that perspective, the designer is saying, "you should know where you're going before you go here. Just access your bookmarks. These icons are for design purposes only."


You can imagine my dismay.

-----------------
What once twItch^ed is now more stable.

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 05-17-2005 03:05

^Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to say.

___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

Ensellitis
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Kansas City, MO , USA
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 05-17-2005 03:32

Thanks for the input. I am actually working on a better navigation system using DHTML... I uploaded it so you can take a look if you wish. I also killed the scrollbars. Now I am trying to fix the padding problem on the bottom of the page...

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twItch^
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Denver, CO, USA
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 05-17-2005 04:05
quote:
Ensellitis said:

Thanks for the input. I am actually working on a better
navigation system using DHTML... I uploaded it so you can take a look
if you wish. I also killed the scrollbars. Now I am trying to fix the
padding problem on the bottom of the page...

:: WWW || Contact || Deviations || ThoughtPrism ::




Yes, yes, this is a much better layout. I even enjoy the contrast between red and green on the mouseovers for the menuing system.



What padding problem are you worried about? I look at it, and while I see a decent sized chunk of blank space underneath the main content area, I don't particularly think it's a bad thing; there's no problem with a bit of whitespace to make the bottom of the design flow into the background.

That said, my guess is a line-height CSS definition in the logo bit on the bottom. Consider tweaking that.

- Stephen
deviantART Profile :::: Everything2 Profile

WarMage
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Rochester, New York, USA
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 05-17-2005 04:54

Wow, that was one hell of a jump. It is much much better.

Ok, I do have a minor problem with the navigation. When you mouse ever portfolio it looks broken. This is going to be difficult to discribe but I will give it a shot.

When you mouse ove it pops up the sub-red nav link. The text under these sublinks at first appear as if they are a part of the background. This cause me a wierd distortion when tpying to figure out what was going on therep

Also use of the sub red nav bar looking element for your link is really poor usability. I think those are headers and not links, you should distinguish between the two with some different styling.

Great work on everything else.

Dan @ Code Town

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 05-17-2005 06:39

A definite improvement.

Personally, though, I'm not too keen on using dropdowns for explanatory text. Users have been so conditioned by drop-down menus that they might be confused by the unclickability of the text. It also introduces the problem WM pointed out with the portfolios button. Here's an idea: why not use that empty space to the right of the menu to pop up the explanatory text on rollover? This way you eliminate the unnecessary drop-downs on most of the buttons, as well as avoiding possible confusion with the portfolios button.

___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

Ensellitis
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Kansas City, MO , USA
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 05-17-2005 20:28

Should I just get rid of the Ensellitis title at the bottom and have one at the top?

I will try to get the descriptions back to the far right of the nav bar, if not I will just get rid of them all together...

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HZR
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Cold Sweden
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 05-17-2005 21:00

Currently you're relying on JavaScript for the menu to work. Don't.

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted posted 05-18-2005 09:33
quote:
Ensellitis said:

Should I just get rid of the Ensellitis title at the bottom and have one at the top?



Now that you've changed the layout, it is completely possible for the title to be off the page before scrolling, so yeah, it might not be a bad idea to put the title at the top.

As for the descriptions, one thing you could do is just include them as titles in the links. This way they will display as tooltips when you hover over the links. This might not be as fancy, but it would be just as functional and far easier to implement. But maybe that's just me--I'm a sucker for simplicity.

___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

Ensellitis
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Kansas City, MO , USA
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 05-18-2005 20:53
quote:
Suho1004 said:

I'm a sucker for simplicity.



So am I, It is much easier to fix the simple than the complex (Sometimes)

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