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Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

posted posted 06-16-2005 10:07

Since I like to stay up to date with things I spend a lot of time reading newspapers & news magazines and watching various news channels. After I finish reading (or watching) something, I generally spend my time wondering how accurate the information is. My parents tell me when they were younger if you read something in the NY Times or WallStreet Journal you KNEW it was true. This might be nostalgia for an era that never existed but now I read both papers daily and I can't help feel both are full of shit.

FOXNews won the media-circus rating wars by being more partisan then any other station. They were famous (or notorious) for telling their journalists how stories would end even before interviews began. Their "news shows", like the O'Reilly Factor and Hannity & Colmes, are more like the talking points from the Republic party. Yet this stuff generated HUGE ratings and their tactics were eventually adopted by every network.

Has FOXNews officially killed the global media? Do you think I'm mistaken in thinking the WSJ is a Republican propaganda rag, as is the NY Times a Democrat propaganda rag? Do you think its even worth reading and watching the news? Am I just mistaken that it was FOXNews who brought down the media? Has this been a long time coming?

One of the main reasons I ask is because I *genuinely* do not see the point in journalists being so partisan. What inspired me to post this was a blurb I saw on the Drudge Report. The title, "Hillary Clinton Shuts Press Out Of Upstate NY Event After Last Week?s Media Storm...", linked to a story in the Buffalo News titled there "No clear answer on who closed event to media". It just infuriates me that you can have two sources, one liberal & one conservative, looking at an identical article and draw completely different things.

reisio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Florida
Insane since: Mar 2005

posted posted 06-16-2005 10:46

Not the global media, but the US media, particularly that of television, is quite screwed.

There are still lots of good print media organizations out there, and lots of good stuff online (though not usually commercial).

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 06-16-2005 10:57

I think the problem lies more on the fact that information is not just being presented anymore, but "opinions" based on the information are.

This type of "trash reporting" is becoming commonplace - because it generates ratings. Why? Becasue that is how humans communicate with one another.

You don't say to a friend "Today, MJ was in court" and then just stop there. That is namely just the way of starting the ensuing conversation!

News organisations have found out that doing this and selling it professionally sells better than just presenting the information without opinion or bias.

It would seem, that this is a more "natrual" way of presenting news to the masses - one that they can easier accept.

I personally find it very distasteful, especially the dis-information that has popped up more and more in the more "serious" news sources - made up stories, wrong "facts", etc.

Horrible.

Diogenes
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 06-16-2005 15:30

I seldom watch TV, but what little I have seen of Fox news leaves me with absolutely no impression whatsoever they have the vaugest idea what journalistic integrity means.

Sadly, the same can be said for almost all Canadian media as well.

I am told by colleagues the closest thing one can get to accurate reporting is BBC followed closely by Al Jazeera.

This latter station's position is, in itself, a condemnation of North American media.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

Ramasax
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: PA, US
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 06-17-2005 01:15

I agree with WebShaman on this one. The ratings determine the news rather than the informtion. Troubling it has come to that.

Back during the election I was an avid watcher of FOXnews and at the time it semed perfectly normal. I liked the shows. Then, a week of so after the election unfortunately, I came around, my views began to change. I probably would have voted Badnarik if anyone, but that is beside the point.

First I came to this realization that O'Reilly is a total ass that has no idea what he is talking about. He is nothing but a pompous statist. And soon thereafter I came to the realization that Hannity is a whining baboon who has no idea what he is talking about and IMO is definately shilling for the Republicrats. I cannot stand watching either of them now. I do tune in to Brit Hume now and again, but just to get an idea of what they deem important news for the day. I also get a kick out of his little roundtable with Krauthammer, Kristol and the other neo-cons.

Having been one of their victims of manipulation I can say with experience that they play on emotion rather than intellect, hence a major lack of true engagment.

I tried CNN, but they seemed to have taken on the same tone, albeit for the other side of the false divide, and again, lacks the detail I need. I don't like having more questions after watching the news than before and that is usually what I walk away with.

Since then I have taken to gathering all my news from the Internet. I watch the AP/reuter wires, where some really good news comes through, and if I find a story that really peaks my interest I go to Yahoo and/or Google news to search for more depth and detail. Usually you find the little hometown papers where the stories originate to be a lot more informative and in-depth, so gathering from them is the best place to start IMO, at least for domestic news. If I can't find more sources, I kind of discard the information until I can gather more. I try, note the emphasis, to not form my opinions quite so quickly, hard being that my emotion can sometimes get in the way. As far as TV, the C-Span channels are the only thing I tune into anymore. I have caught some really informative stuff on there, debates in congress, seminars by various indiviuals. I still think they are lax to touch on some issues, but they are for the most part straight feeds which is good.

International news is a bit more tricky, but I would say that I have a pretty good trust of the beeb, although I am also apprehensive on them as well when it comes to a lot of things. I have read some articles on there about national ID cards, RFID technology, and all the other things I think are leading us to a worldwide database of cattle, and they routinely speak of how good it is. Al-Jazeera, let's just say I think they have their own agenda as many other places do. I don't really trust them, no more than any American outlet anyway.

So, to answer your original question Jestah, has FOXnews killed the media? Yes and no. I think it is a systemic problem that WS described above, the commercialism taking over the delivery of journalism. FOXnews and Citizen Murdoch just took advantage of that and took it to the next level, which kind of forced competitors to do the same.

quote:
Do you think I'm mistaken in thinking the WSJ is a Republican propaganda rag, as is the NY Times a Democrat propaganda rag?



No, I believe the same thing. While they can both be informative, and both have some really good journalism, I do think they have their bias either way, just as do most major papers like the Washington Post and Times. Again, the best thing to do is to look deeper, look for more information before accepting any conclusion they may be drawing for you. The big media in my opinion likes to form your opinions for you, and the trick is not letting them but doing some legwork for yourself. In doing so I have cultivated some views that some might consider extreme, but I have never felt better informed about the going ons in the world. I could be wrong on some issues but at least I am using my own brain instead of letting someone else do the thinking for me.

As an afterthought, perhaps the change in the big media is also in part because of the threat they feel from alternative media sources, althought they will rarely acknowledge it. Newspaper circulation is down in a big way over the past decade, and viewership of cable and even network nightly news is in the same dire straights. Back in the 70's and 80's CBS/NBC/ABC all averaged between 35 and 45 million viewers on any given night and IIRC they are all down to 20-25 million. You see the media constantly demonizing the blogs and other alternative media. They are worried, and they should be.

The problem of distortion still exists on the Internet, perhaps with some new risks as well. Take Talon News for instance, clearly government run. There is a new one that appeared after Talon shut down called CNS news service, another one I believe is straight from the intel community. Lot of disinformation out there and sometimes when you simply want to find the truth it can be very frustrating.

As far as Drudge is concerned, I still visit there everyday, he is simply a news aggregator, like a primitive blog if you will. The example you mentioned is common with him, but if you click through and read the articles for yourself you'll be ok I guess. Those who look at the headlines and nothing more are those who are mislead. I try to vary my sources as much as possible, so as to et the most rounded view I can. Drudge, Infowars, Huffington, LGF, Daily KOS, and a few Libertarian blogs for good measure. I don't identify with any of them totally, as they all have their quirks and most are caught up in the left/right paradigm which I think is a control factor, but if you are going for opinions that is about as diverse a collection source as you can get. I listen to the various arguments and form my own opinion based on the merits thereof. Funny thing is there are much better points to be uncovered in the alternative media than on any of the corporate news.

Seems like a lot of work just to get the news, but I think it is really the only way to get a balanced view of what is really going on in the world. If you are interested in it like I am, almost to the point of an obsessive hobby, the two to three hours I put in everyday doing that and writing my blog is well worth it. Call it a feeling of enlightenment, if only to a small extent.


Ramasax

(Edited by Ramasax on 06-17-2005 01:18)

Ramasax
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: PA, US
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 06-17-2005 01:26

As a side note, they may have garnered more ratings in the short run, but over time this is ultimately going to backfire on them. Polls, as finicky as they can be, show that public trust in the media is WAY WAY down.

What we have to worry about now, and something I think could be a distinct possibility in the future, is them passing some sort of legislation on the Internet to make a lot of political blogging illegal. Like needing a licence to be a journalist or even a dissemator of opinion.

edit: one thing that WebShaman didn't mention is the government propaganda/advertisment segments routinely passed off on the nightly news as ... well news. GWB has admitted to and and refused to stop. But again, this is nothing new and goes back long before his administration. Clinton was particularly guilty of the same thing, but was just never called on it.

Ok, I am done now.

Ramasax

(Edited by Ramasax on 06-17-2005 01:30)

Moon Shadow
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Rouen, France
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 06-20-2005 19:21

It is indeed very sad... Does any of you remember this article ?

At that time, your media started all this fuss to convince America our opinion had no sense whatsoever and that the war in Iraq was legitimate. Bha. I'm glad to see more and more Americans realize how far their media can go to manipulate the public opinion to suit their needs.

Jestah, try reading the newspaper Guardian Weekly (it is shipped worldwide). You may like it

----
If wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets.

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