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Diogenes
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-24-2005 03:21

***Please note; "the church", not "The catholic church".

The fact that most of the info I post here shall find the CC pre-eminent, speaks for itself, as I conduct my re-search without using the word 'catholic'.

The pedophile issue is a serious one and one which church-friendly (fearing?) media, politicians, police and courts have done a great deal to help sweep under the alter over the years and even today.

I feel it should be exposed, talked about, revealed and kept foremost in the memory of as many thinking people as possible and a few of those who seem to work merely on fused ganglion as well.

The guilty, or the supporters of various churches, may shoot at the messenger here, but I am bullet-proof.

Some time ago a believer, whom I offended by disagreeing with him and providing proof the bible was a fiction, swore to pray me to death.

I have not heard from him for some time, I hope he is well...as am I.

So, here is some reading material for y'all;

http://www.chilliwacktimes.com/tol/035104tl14.html

http://www.survivorsfirst.org/bosgrandjuryrpt.html

http://www.nospank.net/n-j16.htm

http://www.rickross.com/reference/loc/loc19.html

http://www.unknownnews.net/vaticanpedophilesclub.html

http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/archives/051392_porter.htm

http://www.meaning.ca/articles/news_commentary/sexual_abuse_church_may02.htm

http://www.therapistfinder.net/Child-Abuse/Pedophile.html

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/johnleo/jl20020204.shtml

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=72&ItemID=7842

Since I got chastized for entering similar material elsewhere, I thought perhaps it deserved it's own thread.

Cheers...and never bend over in church.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

(Edited by Diogenes on 09-24-2005 03:24)

Ramasax
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: PA, US
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 09-25-2005 03:23

Hey Deo, this might interest you.

Philadelphia Grand Jury Report on Pedophile Priests

Ramasax
www.AmericanSerf.us

Diogenes
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-25-2005 06:21

Thanks Ram, it does and has been added to the arsenal.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

Gideon
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: rooted on planet Mars, *I mean Earth*
Insane since: May 2004

posted posted 09-25-2005 06:25

Dio, I will pray for this friend of yours, that he will grow close enough to Christ that he realizes why God didn't grant his request. I will also pray that you might discover that reason soon, as well.

While hiding the pedophile issue under the rug is a bad thing, many people are ashamed of their sins. That is probably why they will only come public with it if they are caught. I know that my sins are shameful, and that if people knew all about me, they wouldn't look at me the same. But the cool thing about Jesus is that He will forgive the sin and help the sinner cease the sinning. The cool thing about a believer who lives pro christo is that they will forgive the sin and help the sinner cease the sinning. That is what I would hope these churches will do with anyone who sins (especially pedophiles), because that is what Jesus did.

"For reason is a property of God's...moreover, there is nothing He does not wish to be investigated and understood by reason." ~Tertullian de paenitentia Carthaginian Historian 2nd century AD

Diogenes
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-25-2005 07:35

Gid, yer an idjut.

The clown who wanted to pray me to death was no friend.

Don't hold yer breath waiting for me to discover a belief in a myth.

There is no historical proof of jc save in the bible, which is a story-book the Brother's Grimm could have dobne a better job of.

One cannot be a sinner unless one is religious.

Yoiu believe you are a sinner, so you are. I am not.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

posted posted 09-25-2005 08:02

Gid: You're trolling. Stop it.

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-25-2005 11:57
quote:
Dio, I will pray for this friend of yours, that he will grow close enough to Christ that he realizes why God didn't grant his request. I will also pray that you might discover that reason soon, as well.



I really don't understand why you would do such a thing - it has been proven that Prayer doesn't work - the only effect that it has, is on the one doing the praying.

Do you need soothing and comfort?

norm
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: [s]underwater[/s] under-snow in Juneau
Insane since: Sep 2002

posted posted 09-26-2005 22:16

Diogenes:

Just a little advice for you. Religious folks love to be 'wronged'. I have found it counter productive to call them idiots and other sometimes well deserved names. And if they have already started the name calling business themselves, I will just stop conversing with them.

You know there are actually two types of idiots, the ones who know they are being idiotic and the ones who are too stupid to even figure that out. It really doesn't matter which kind of idiot you are talking to, either way you are just wasting your breath by telling them they are an idiot. No matter how much fun it may be....

Diogenes
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-27-2005 01:39

Good point Norm.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

Gideon
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: rooted on planet Mars, *I mean Earth*
Insane since: May 2004

posted posted 09-27-2005 03:12

You brought those things up earlier D-man: the lack of evidence for JC, and that sinners are only such if they believe so.

Have you ever looked into any of the research Paul Maier has made on the early Christian Church? It's extraordinary the things he has found concerning Jesus of Nazareth, and the arguments for the assumptions of his context are pretty sound.

D-man, you are actually one of the few people I have found who actually don't think they are a sinner on some level. Most people intuitly know they have broken God's laws because of the concience they have convicting their hearts. If you truly feel that way I can think that the only explaination is that you have darkened your heart so much, like those described in Romans 1:21-25, that you can't tell any more.

"For reason is a property of God's...moreover, there is nothing He does not wish to be investigated and understood by reason." ~Tertullian de paenitentia Carthaginian Historian 2nd century AD

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 09-27-2005 03:27

There is a very big difference, gid, between knowing that you have done things wrong at some point, and beleiving that you have broken "god's law".

It is a very simple issue: if there is no god, then there is obviously no god's law. If there is no gods law, you can't break, and cannot be a sinner.

For those of us who do not beleive in your mythical diety, the concept of "sin" as such is a useless fabrication.

This is very different from not acknowledging wrong-doing.

Diogenes
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-27-2005 05:38

Well Gid, it seem obvious to me that you are either unwillimg ( a sin of ignorance) or unable ( a sin of refusal) to acknowledge facts put before you which any person with an open, seeking mind would find of interest.

I must say, I am impressed by your encyclopedic knowledge of the several billions of " most people" upon the face of this earth and their religious leanings .

Surely this is due to your direct connection to your god. Gee, I hope it is not a party line and you are listening in to Dumbya's chats with 'The Lord".

It may cause you some distress to do a little research and find that xianity is a minority faith on the face of the earth and a dwindling one at that.

The lack of evidence of JC is based on scientific research.

Fact, in other words.

The real thing, not the Macdonalds/xian version.

It is not my heart which is dark, it is light and bright and free from other's opinions of what I must think and feel; it is your mind, which is occluded by superstition. Superstition, like all bigotry, is fueled by deep-seated feelings of inadequacy.

Sleep well.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

Ramasax
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: PA, US
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 09-27-2005 06:20
quote:
The lack of evidence of JC is based on scientific research.

Fact, in other words.



Are you talking historically (Jesus the man) or theologically (Jesus the diety) here?

While noone can prove that Jesus was indeed the Savior, it is well accepted among historians and scholars alike, with few exceptions, that he did exist.

Explain.

Ramasax
www.AmericanSerf.us

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-27-2005 07:28

Ram, he is referring to direct evidence that proves the man that is labeled Jesus Christ really exited - there is none.

We have been through this before, I recall, long ago. I think we had a similiar conversation here at the time when the grave marker was found...

That proved inconclusive.

briggl
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: New England
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 09-27-2005 14:01
quote:
Gideon siad:

Have you ever looked into any of the research Paul Maier has made on the early Christian Church? It's extraordinary the things he has found concerning Jesus of Nazareth, and the arguments for the assumptions of his context are pretty sound.


Many of the links that have been posted in these threads show how the arguments that he uses do not stand up to the facts.
One example:

quote:
Relating to Jesus? final week in Jerusalem, an ancient flight of stairs down to the Brook Kidron has been excavated, doubtless used by Jesus and His disciples on the way to Gethsemane at the base of the Mount of Olives, where ancient olive trees still thrive.


So they found a flight of stairs. There is no evidence that a person named Jesus used them, but he states that they were "doubtless used by Jesus and His disciples...". Hmmm... not doubtless, I certainly doubt it.


WarMage
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Rochester, New York, USA
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 09-27-2005 14:33

I do believe the name Jesus' name was in a Roman census.

Dan @ Code Town

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-27-2005 14:37

And I believe the name "Jesus" was in the last US Census, as well...

Diogenes
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-27-2005 16:29

The name Jesus was apparently as common then, as John or Jim or Smith is today.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

Bugimus
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: New California
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 09-27-2005 19:12
quote:

WebShaman said:

...he is referring to direct evidence that proves the man that is labeled
Jesus Christ really exited - there is none...


What would constitute direct evidence for you, WS? You mean like physical remains or what?

This was what I was getting at in another thread when I said we should consider it fact that Jesus existed. To discount the NT when we do not for other historical evidences and other historical figures would be biased. We do not doubt that Nero existed, for instance. Do we have his remains? Not to my knowledge, but we have gobs of documentary evidence. To doubt that the man, Jesus Christ, existed in this day and age can't be considered objective.


Dio, I really don't have the time right now to read all those links. I read one and so you're saying that members of christian churches are *more* prone to this abuse? Assuming that is true, then it leaves us with this:

1. This abuse is a sin of the highest magnitude. Damaging and innocent life to the point where their physical life will be ruined *and* their after-life too is heinous. Christ warned of the fate of anyone who would do such a thing and nothing could be further from Xian teaching.

2. It should be exposed and eradicated. If the churches don't clean their own house, then others should. There really is no excuse for covering up such behavior.

3. Part of the proof of Xianity's validity is supposed to be how Xians love one another and others. This sort of thing obviously undermines that and that is why the church should be the most motivated to root this out.

4. This should not be used by anti-religious zealots (not to mention any names ) to attack the teachings of Xianity when it is clearly diametrically opposed to them.

: . . DHTML Slice Puzzle : . . .

briggl
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: New England
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 09-27-2005 19:17
quote:
We do not doubt that Nero existed, for instance. Do we have his remains? Not to my knowledge, but we have gobs of documentary evidence. To doubt that the man, Jesus Christ, existed in this day and age can't be considered objective.


Historians who lived when Nero did wrote about Nero. We have no such writings about Jesus from historians who lived when Jesus lived.


Diogenes
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-27-2005 19:33

Righton Briggl and I posted a link somwhere which points out in detail the fact there isno historical record of the man outside of the bible which is not to be trusted as a historical record .

No Bug, sadly the pedophiles are found in many more places than the church, schools, social services, government agencies, boy-scouts and similiar organizations.

However, it is much worse for it to not only be happening in the various churches, but for them to be covering it all up with such enthusiasm.

The catholic church alone is thought to have spend billions of hush money.

As you point out, such actions counter all the teachings of xianity, but then very few xians live up to those anyway.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-27-2005 22:47

Oh, I'm sure that someone named Jesus lived during the time that a certain Jesus Christ was mentioned in the NT and by the Jews, Bugs.

However, that is where it stops.

We have no direct evidence, whatsoever, that the Jesus Christ mentioned in the NT really existed.

What is direct evidence? Well, physical remains would be pretty good, obviously. A non-refutable piece of evidence I think would also nail things down - a grave with a definite direct means of identifying the person in it, for example.

This is kind of like the Buddha - but we know he really existed, it has been documented very well, from a number of sources, unrelated to each other.

That would also be a pretty good indicator - to have many different sources documenting the Jesus Christ in the NT.

But we do not.

And that is a very, very strange thing, considering who and what Jesus Christ is supposed to have been and done.

After all, the Romans weren't the only ones in the region, and neither were the Jews. What about the "3 Kings"? What about the Palastinians and other Peoples in the area? Why didn't anyone else document these things?

We see Confucius, Buddha, and even Mohammad were all well documented, from many different sources. Why isn't the Jesus Christ of the NT documented so?

We know that a Caesar named Nero existed - not only is he documented by the Romans, but he is also documented by many of the other lands and countries ouside of Rome - and by Rome's enemies. Why would Rome's enemies document and help perpetuate a myth?

I mean, we have more evidence that Cleopatra existed, than did the Jesus Christ of the NT, Bugs.

(Edited by WebShaman on 09-28-2005 07:19)

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 09-28-2005 00:50
quote:

Bugimus said:

To discount the NT when we do not for other historical evidences and other historical figures would be biased. We do not doubt that Nero existed, for instance. Do we have his remains? Not to my knowledge, but we have gobs of documentary evidence. To doubt that the man, Jesus Christ, existed in this day and age can't be considered objective.



Briggl touched on this, but this needs serious attention.

I would not in any way consider the gospels to be "historical evidences" in the same way that the historical writings related to Nero are. They are much more in the vein of Homeric tales, or other forms of greek mythology.

Yes, we do have "gobs of documentary evidence" for Nero. We do not have this for Jesus.

As stated by briggl, we have contemporary accounts of Nero, written by historians. For Jesus, we have accounts written from between 40 and 70 years after he was said to have died, and written by people who we cannot identify, and written to promote an ideology.

To say that these 4 writings can be held to be of a comparable integrity with other historical documents is worse than unobjective.
We also need to note, again, that those figures of history whom we do accept existed with little evidence, we do so only nominally, and with the full acceptance that everything we know about them could be anywhere from slightly exagerate to completely fabricated.

The only thing that can help lend credibility to such a figure, is corroboration with mulitple sources of information telling about the same person. We simply do not have this with Jesus. The small handful of references that are commonly touted by christians as extra-biblical sources of information about Jesus are nothing more then mentions of the movement, which mention the name Jesus, since that is the name associated with the movement. Nowhere is there an account of the actions, life, or death of Jesus other than the gospels.

Until such a reference is found, his existence in the first place must at least be viewed with skepticism.

I am willing to accept that Jesus did exist. I have no reason to suppose he did not. The circumstantial evidence for him is enough for me to give the benefit of the doubt - but that's far different from being able to say with confidence that this particular Jesus did exist.

Diogenes
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-28-2005 02:30

I guess it won't hurt to re-post this; http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/appendixd.html

and this; http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/gordon_stein/jesus.shtml

It seems some have missed or avoided them.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

Diogenes
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-28-2005 02:39

Can ylou believe this? http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/aboutwbc.html

so much for xian love.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

Fig
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Houston, TX, USA
Insane since: Apr 2000

posted posted 09-28-2005 03:24

random observation: it seems the philosophy and other silliness forum actually should be relabeled the "let's bag on xians" forum.

diogenes, the guy/church behind godhatesfags.com is an idiot and doesnt represent most xians.

WS, on a semi-related note i'm working on some research on your ideas of jesus not fulfilling the jewish prophecies. A guy that teaches in a program my brother (and is a pastor and professor) is jewish but became xian later on, he also has multiple doctorates in theology, can translate hebrew to english on the fly, etc. I'm trying to get some info from him on his position on jesus' fulfillment of those prophecies as he obviously believes that jesus was the messiah.

chris


KAIROSinteractive | tangent oriented

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-28-2005 07:30
quote:
"let's bag on xians"



Now that is typical!

Maybe Dio is "bagging" on xians, but I don't see anyone else doing it. Dio is not the Phil and other silliness forum, Fig.

On another note, I'd be very interested to hear your findings, Fig.

quote:
is jewish but became xian later on



You need to be careful here, though. That's a WHOLE load of Bias. I would prefer a neutral party's findings, actually. For example, a Buddhist that has studied the Jewish Torah and the NT.

Because someone who has lost Faith in one religion, and switches to another, opposing one, obviously believe in that new relion's Dogma. It would be like asking a Pastor and Professor who has studied Physics (and has a Doctorate, etc) that is a Flat Earther, about the shape of the Earth...

Diogenes
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-28-2005 16:04

The reason xians get the majority of the the bad press here is because they get the majority of the bad press.

Have you seen any headlines about Bhuddists, Janes, Jews, or other religious groups covering up institutionalized sexual abuse of kids?

If you have some, lets get it on here. It is not to be tolerated anywhere.

Recall as well, I have mentioned the predators are also found in secular institutions. When those headlines hit, I'll post them and would expect anyone else to do the same.

Pedophiles depend upon organizations wanting to keep such things under wraps to avoid prosecution.

It is important to keep the crime front and centre and thus encourage people to make it something people don't want hidden and perpetuated.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

Zynx
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: In the Midsts
Insane since: Aug 2005

posted posted 09-29-2005 04:55
quote:
- it has been proven that Prayer doesn't work


WS, of ALL that your Indian heritage allows, (And mine - Cherokee), why oh why would you state such a thing?

Now think about this; Just because how a prayer is asked, does not mean that the response/answer given, should be an exact match to that prayer request.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

" The world today is such a wicked thing "

(Edited by Zynx on 09-29-2005 05:00)

Diogenes
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-29-2005 06:31

Prayer doesn't work Zynx, because those praying are talking to themselves alone.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-29-2005 07:23

Zynx, My People do not pray! (and I am Cherokee).

There are times when one may beseech, or speak, with the spirits - but that is definitely not prayer.

WarMage
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Rochester, New York, USA
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 09-29-2005 15:19

The peyote might cotribute a bit as well

Dan @ Code Town

jade
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: houston, tx usa
Insane since: Mar 2003

posted posted 09-29-2005 15:22
quote:
there are times when one may beseech, or speak, with the spirits - but that is definitely not prayer




What would be the reason for the speaking to spirits??????
What would you want to know???? Or better yet what do they reveal to you????
What is the purpose for communicating with your spirits in your lifetime???
Woudl it be you could not cope with the real world so you ask them for advice????
Why does your culture have a spirit world and how do they manifest themselves to you????


This would be very interesting to know?????

Diogenes
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-29-2005 15:33

Jade, one might ask all of the same questions of you, as whatever you pray to is no different and no more real.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-29-2005 16:12
quote:
What would be the reason for the speaking to spirits??????

- to find out what they know.

quote:
What would you want to know???? Or better yet what do they reveal to you????

I don't talk to spirits, so I can't tell you what they might reveal to me, but things I would like to know are a)what happens after death, the Mysteries of Life, etc.

quote:
What is the purpose for communicating with your spirits in your lifetime???

I haven't communicated with spirits. I've had encounters with sprits, but no real communication. It takes someone with lots of training and guidance to do so, I have been told.

quote:
Woudl it be you could not cope with the real world so you ask them for advice????

No.

quote:
Why does your culture have a spirit world and how do they manifest themselves to you????

My culture doesn't have a spirit world - reality has a spirit essence that is a part of it. They manifest themselves in dreams, in trances, and sometimes in certain animals or objects.

Diogenes
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-29-2005 16:33

Again, pretty much the same argument as the xians put forth.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-29-2005 16:44

Not really, Dio. We know that there are sources of energy (quantum Physics), and that reality can be influenced with thought and observance alone. I think my People know of a way to do this.

Also, we don't believe in "gods" or a "god". We don't believe in Angels, either. Nor is there a "heaven" or a "hell". We believe that there is a binding spiritual world right beside ours, that connects us all together, with all animals and all things.

We don't believe in the idea of "being saved" or salvation, becasue we don't believe that Man is somehow afflicted with sin (the idea of Sin is foreign) and so are the concepts of good and evil.

And though I myself have never been able to communicate with the spirits, I have encountered them. I can't prove this to you, however, and thus, it is only important to me, and those like me who have experienced such (and My People).

WebShaman | Asylum D & D | D & D Min Page

(Edited by WebShaman on 09-29-2005 16:53)

briggl
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: New England
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 09-29-2005 20:39
quote:
I haven't communicated with spirits. I've had encounters with spirits, but no real communication. It takes someone with lots of training and guidance to do so, I have been told.


So someone told you that people with enough training and guidance can speak to spirits.

And Catholics are told that if they tell their sins to a priest (a person with a lot of training and guidance), he is a direct pipeline to God, and their sins will be forgiven.

And someone told me that a man, who wasn't really a man because he was the son of God, died for my sins, but then didn't really die, and is now sitting at the right hand of God, but he really is God, along with the Holy Ghost, whoever he is, and they make up the Holy Trinity and they are really all one being because there can't be more than one God, and if I pray to them/him, they/he will answer me, so I can speak with God even though I don't have all that much training and guidance.


WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-29-2005 21:09

Well, I suppose if you were seeing God, Jesus, Angels, etc, Briggl, you might consider that communicating with them could be a real possibility, right?

But you could also be right - I don't know.

*shrugs*

I asked those who say they have spoken with spirits, about the spirits that I saw. They say that it is dangerous to speak with spirits, and that it is dangerous even to be noticed. I stopped attempting to do so, after a particularly bad experience.

Since I don't have the drive or dedication necessary to even attempt to try to learn how, not to mention completion of such training, I will probably never know.

NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

posted posted 09-29-2005 21:30

[quote]And someone told me that a man, who wasn't really a man because he was the son of God, died for my sins, but then didn't really die, and is now sitting at the right hand of God, but he really is God, along with the Holy Ghost, whoever he is, and they make up the Holy Trinity and they are really all one being because there can't be more than one God, and if I pray to them/him, they/he will answer me, so I can speak with God even though I don't have all that much training and guidance./quote]

Excellent! If it wan't so damn long I'd use it as a closing quote. =) vbg

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