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At0mic_PC
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Columbia MS USA
Insane since: Apr 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-06-2006 15:46 Edit Quote

I just got me a Springfield Armoury XD in .45 ACP a few months back. I love it. My only complaint is that I don't have a place to shoot it. This thing is very loud. I accidentally forgot to put my ear plugs in one day and my ears were ringing. Needless to say I quickly remembered the plugs.

What do you guys use for home/vehicle defense? Do any of you have a CCW permit?

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 05-06-2006 16:12 Edit Quote
quote:
What do you guys use for home/vehicle defense?

Nothing. I just lock my door.

And if someone breakthrough while I'm home, if I think I can handle it safely I'll welcome him/them with my bare hands, a kitchen knife or my snowboard ( that thing can hurt badly, trust me ).

Otherwise, if I think I'm no match, I'll offer him/them a cup of coffee. I won't risk my life for material things. There's that thing called insurance to refund you when someone steal/break your goods.

Blacknight
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: INFRONT OF MY PC
Insane since: Dec 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-06-2006 16:41 Edit Quote

@ poi And theres the difference between USA and Europe when it comes to crimerates
Still if someone brakes in to my home.... well bad luck for him theres not much here to take

Moon Shadow
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Rouen, France
Insane since: Jan 2003

IP logged posted posted 05-06-2006 16:58 Edit Quote

And wouldn't crime rates be lower in the US if guns weren't sold so freely ?

Anyways... The only weapon I carry all the time is a sharp pencil

----
If wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets.

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 05-06-2006 17:27 Edit Quote

Blacknight: Canada also has a much lower violent crime rate than the USA.

moaiz
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Santa
Insane since: Nov 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-06-2006 19:31 Edit Quote

I dont have a CCW but the gun I bought for my regular carry is a g36. While I chose the gun primarily for the width/weight profile of it, I dont like the single stack that much but I figure if I cant get it done with 6-.45 hollowpoints, its my time. I almost got rid of my Glock at first because it was consistently low and to the right but after I fed some lead through it accuracy improved. Luckily there are two outdoor ranges nearby and an indoor range. Most of my brass ends up at the indoor range because its closest to me. The gun I toss in for extended time out in cougar/bear areas is my a .357 S&W combat mag snub-nose. Killed a nasty javelina that charged me once when I was in NW Arizona with it, crazy little pigs. Its too expensive to burn .357 rounds but its fun to shoot, earplugs and earmuffs help. I double up when indoors.

Guns cause violence...humm, The lack of a gun as a tool wouldnt alter my threat profle much. I always have a knife, steel-toes and a one pound stainless steel Kara around my wrist...take those away and I am still 5'11", 260lbs and a 5th dan in bar room brawling. If someone intends to do you harm the thin veneer of society's laws and those who enforce them will not protect you.

Is your life really yours if you cant prevent someone from taking it from you by any means necessary?

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-06-2006 21:52 Edit Quote

What do you guys use for home/vehicle defense?

I lock my doors and use the alarm - that's about as far as I'm willing to go for both apartment and vehicle "defense". I have a fire resistent safe in my office but that's more for important documents. I simply don't own anything of enough value where I'd risk my life to confront an intruder.

I see very little value in actually owning a gun.

Rinswind 2th
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Den Haag: The Royal Residence
Insane since: Jul 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-06-2006 23:52 Edit Quote

I get my super soaker from the closet under the stairs...... this will teach them.
And if that is no good i try my double bladed force fx lightsaber...



.........................................................................
:: Develop yourself, develop your life, develop the world ::
.........................................................................

At0mic_PC
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Columbia MS USA
Insane since: Apr 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 00:02 Edit Quote

I have a few things that you can't put a value on. One is my life and the others are the lives of my wife and children. I still lock my doors.

http://www.a-human-right.com/

Sorry about the topic. I was going to say something witty about me being able to control my gun but I forgot to add it to my first post.

I think that disarming people would make it where you couldn't defend yourself. What criminal wouldn't be scared if he thought every person was armed?

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 00:07 Edit Quote

If you value your life so much, why would you confront a potentially armed intruder? I hope never to have my apartment broken into - but if it is, they can take anything they want.

At0mic_PC
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Columbia MS USA
Insane since: Apr 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 00:13 Edit Quote

Even your life.

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 00:42 Edit Quote

(\/) oO (\/) click! clack! double post lobsterized!!

(Edited by poi on 05-07-2006 00:48)

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 00:47 Edit Quote

I'm probably too much of a nice/rationnal person but I fail to see why intruders would take your life if you don't give a shit about the things that have a value for them ?

I mean, you want that TV set ? Sure go ahead. Do you want a ribbon or a gift card with it ? I'm not stupid I won't risk to get stabbed or shot for a god damn TV/computer/whatever...

At0mic_PC: That's just my opinion and we obviously don't have the same culture, but if I were you I'd feel more worried about having guns and ammos under the same roof as my wife and children than the eventuality of some intruders comming in and killing my loved ones.

I'm glad you're able to control your gun, but what about your wife and children ? How would it feel to see your children playing with your own gun, even un-armed ?

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 00:52 Edit Quote

At0mic, I'd suggest you look up the statistics on how many people die by gunfire in countries where it's legal to arm yourself like that, and in countries where it isn't. I know here in Australia we have fairly strict gun-control, and I'm glad of it. I mostly don't have to worry that every man and his dog that I walk past is armed. Violent crimes arem uch lower, even when considered as a percentage against the population (because, yes, I'm well aware that Australia's population is much lower than that of the US, and so on and so forth). There's an old saying which holds extremely true: "he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword."

Most of the time (and I have seen a thing or two in this realm, so I'm not speaking from a point of no experience) if your intruder is armed heavier than you, they will posture and revel in their dominance of the situaton, and take whatever they want *stopping short of taking your life*. If they are confronted, though, with you armed as you suggest you prefer to be, what is their reaction going to be? They will panic, and perhaps not necessarily shoot at you, but at someone you love. And, yeah, you might kill them, and congratulations, you've just taken a life, proud of yourself now? Does taking that life bring back the loved one beside you? No, it doesn't. Does revenge help soothe that wound? No. Have you sunk to the level of the assailant? Yes. Do you want to be him? I can't imagine why you would. Guns do not help things in situations like this. They only escelate the situation, and escelation is far from what you want.

This came from a very quick google on the subject, and is but one of many, many things on the 'net. Statistics, studies, mostly done by neutral parties, and without biased spins on them. Go, look forthem. Red. Be educated. Your gun, in the most likely case, will not kill your assailant, should one ever appear in your home. It will kill someone you love. Or your assailant will get it before you can, and kill you with it. You bring the instrument of your own demise into your home and call it a preventative measure? I call it madness or, at best, stupidity. Grow up, go read something, and learn.


Justice 4 Pat Richard

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 02:54 Edit Quote

Even your life.

You confront all the criminals you want - I'll gladly run away and we can see who lives longer ...

At0mic_PC
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Columbia MS USA
Insane since: Apr 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 03:13 Edit Quote

Well I guess if you're ok with someone coming in to your home killing your family and raping your dog and feel like you can somehow rationalize with an armed psychopath then you don't need a gun.

You have to educate your children about guns. You can't just let them figure out how it works by themselves. Handgun safes are a great way to keep them out of your children's hands and still allow you to get them when you need it.

I think it's great that your country doesn't think you're responsible enough to own a gun.

At0mic_PC
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Columbia MS USA
Insane since: Apr 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 03:15 Edit Quote
quote:
You confront all the criminals you want - I'll gladly run away and we can see who lives longer ...



I'm sure you can run faster than 900fps.

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 03:51 Edit Quote

At0mic_PC:

quote:
Well I guess if you're ok with someone coming in to your home killing your family and raping your dog and feel like you can somehow rationalize with an armed psychopath then you don't need a gun.

In what world do you live ? do you think someone will break through your house, kill your family and rape your dog so much that you feel the urge to have a gun under your roof ? Then if the chances that that happen are so big why don't you get the hell out of here and find yourself and your family a safer place to live ? do you enjoy feeling a threat on your life and your children's life ? I sincerely hope you don't have that gun because the idea of using it on a live target provides you some jolts of testosterone.

An armed psychopath can certainly not think rationnaly, but I like to think you can, thus I wonder why you don't move to place where you won't need a gun to "protect" your family.

Maruman
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: under your bed
Insane since: Oct 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 05:29 Edit Quote

"Guns dont kill people, people kill people"
If all guns in the world were distroyed, people will still kill other people. Some of the most violent henous (sp?) crimes are commited without guns.

Having said that, I agree with Poi, if your so scared of your home being invaded, and your family being hurt/killed. Move somewhere safer. there is no need to arm yourself, this make you just as dangerous as the perpetrator of the crime that hasnt happened yet and may never happen in the future.

Ramasax
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: PA, US
Insane since: Feb 2002

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 05:44 Edit Quote

It is not guns that cause the high crime rate in the United States, it is the people and the decadent culture which has cultivated them. Banning guns would never fix anything, and would more than likely cause things to get worse, especially in our current state of affairs where those guns may become necessary in the possibly not so distant future.

quote:
You confront all the criminals you want - I'll gladly run away and we can see who lives longer ...



What if you are not confronting criminals? What if you confronting something else entirely, allegedly the exact opposite, people who wish to impose their will on you? To make you think and behave as they command and tax you to fund your own oppression? To infringe upon the very things that make life worth living. You cannot run from that. Will you lie down and take it, or will you do as those poor Chinese farmers are doing, fight them with shovels and pitchforks? Those will be your choices. Those you are fighting, on the other hand, will have the latest, state of the art, bought with your hard earned money, tools of death.

The old cliche "if guns were illegal, only criminals would have guns" is very misleading. One other entity would have them, and would keep buying them, legally. And you can bet your ass they will also be using them, whether you like it or not. Besides, you are no threat, not in this theoretical, yet increasingly plausible reality.

As for using a gun as home defense, I think that would depend on the situation. To protect things, probably not. To protect my life or the lives of my family from some other type of warped human shell, most definately.

In the ideal world, yes, I would love see see guns gone, but this is hardly an ideal world.

My 2 pieces of copper plated zinc.

Ram

DL-44
Lunatic (VI) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 06:01 Edit Quote
quote:

Moon Shadow said:

And wouldn't crime rates be lower in the US if guns weren't sold so freely ?



There is only point I care to address in this thread:

LEGALLY owned firearms are involved in very few crimes. The "freely sold" guns aren't the problem. The illegally owned guns are the ones to worry about

The legal status of various weapons does not effect the effects of societal conditions on human behavior.

The pervasivnous of viloent crime in societies around the globe regardless of gun control laws is more than evidence enough of this...

(Edited by DL-44 on 05-07-2006 06:03)

moaiz
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Santa
Insane since: Nov 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 09:41 Edit Quote

Good anology with China since this is essentially a hunters vs farmers discussion.
The farmer says take the crops, we'll grow more next year. The hunter knows that next year they take more.
Or mabye its a cain/abel thing...All I know is that in a fight/flight situation my wings rarely work.

The notion that gun laws will prevent criminals from obtaining firearms is a fallacy. I had my first gun before 18, it was a crappy little .380 with the serial filed off. Traded it for cash and hash because, If you're gonna live by the sword...you have to get one first.

I can honestly say that someone coming into my house for my TV would certainly not pay with his life. He will likely end up paying the tooth fairy, actions have consequences. My faith in the legal system to mete out appropriate justice is not what it used to be.

Since we are all inmates here I wont try and conceal my sociopathy, maybe I can rationalize it... I do live in a city that hasn't been out of the top ten in murders per capita for a decade. Maybe we have a shortage of rose colored glasses. Maybe I look around and see people who share my malevolence but lack my restraint. Maybe I never learned to tend the crops.

What do I use my gun for?
Personal protection. The use of deadly force is only to address the EMMINENT THREAT of serious bodily injury or death or to prevent the emminent threat of bodily injury or death of others.

Theres that and its SO much more effective than a turn signal. A haiku about that might go something like this.

quote:

Your bravado gone
Now, staring down the barrel
F*%^ me, no. F!^@ you.



...But I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd...

Blacknight
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: INFRONT OF MY PC
Insane since: Dec 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 13:48 Edit Quote

but look at it a different way ..a homeless brake sin to your house because he hast to (need food drink alcohol what so ever)..is is not trying to kill you ..you get your gun and shoot him because you think he wants to kill you and your family .... you become the murder at that point

mas
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: the space between us
Insane since: Sep 2002

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 16:12 Edit Quote

i only can tell you how the situation is here in austria: no one owns a gun. with "no one" I mean less then 1% of the population has guns...Owning guns is so very unsual, so if you really decide to buy one...well hehehehe. Everyone will point with the finger at you saying: "this guy has a gun, what a mad fella!!!!"

and i am quite happy about the situation. i am totally scared of guns. the first and only time in my life I had a gun in my hands was during the army. there we had to learn how to handle one....and we also had to shoot with it three times. a lot of the guys I was in the army with enjoyed that. sure it was interesting, holding this thing in your hands. but no one was really happy with it.

The Space Between Us | My Blog: lukas.grumet.at

At0mic_PC
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Columbia MS USA
Insane since: Apr 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 16:24 Edit Quote

If he knocks on my door asking for food then he'll get food. Just like my brother-in-laws sisters kids. Just like the guy on the highway holding up a sign "Traveling Hungry" and others.

But this guy breaks in your house. You get your gun. You face him in your kitchen where he has his arms raised above his head palms open with a chicken leg on the floor. "Sir, please take the chicken and go. Do you want something to drink? Can I heat that up for you?" "No, sorry I do not have any alcohol. Take this Dr Pepper. Do not break in my house again."

It's as moaiz said. The person or animal must make you believe you or your family are going to die. Not something that a "HEY!!" would cause the thief to drop your DVD player and run.

You're outside at an ATM machine. They don't have a place where you can pull your car beside it so you have to get out. You are taking the cash when someone comes up behind you with a gun to your head. He demands the cash. You give him the money and he runs off. Do you get your gun then? No, the threat has left.

You're in your car and accidentally cut someone off. They (because criminals are car poolers.) throw you the bird and then at a stop light you see them get out of their vehicle and come towards you. One has a knife. Your doors are locked but windows are down (Trying to save on gas by not running the AC.) and you didn't get the electric window option. With the average adult being able to cover a 12 foot distance in less than a second, in my opinion you are completely justified in drawing on them. They can take this further by continuing to approach you in this manner or they can turn around and get back in their car.

At0mic_PC
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Columbia MS USA
Insane since: Apr 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 16:31 Edit Quote

That's pretty interesting mas. Here I was given a BB gun at around 4 years old. With this I had to learn the responsibility of owning a projectile weapon. My dad taught me gun safety with this and I learned how to operate it. When I was older he bought me a shotgun and took me hunting with it. He taught me to respect my environment by not leaving trash in the woods. He taught me to respect the animals and not kill just to be killing them. We ate what we killed.

You guys don't hunt or fish in Austria?

mas
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: the space between us
Insane since: Sep 2002

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 17:41 Edit Quote

sure, hunters have rifles here, thats an exception. fishing with guns? lol? we use something like a fishing rod

The Space Between Us | My Blog: lukas.grumet.at

Blacknight
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: INFRONT OF MY PC
Insane since: Dec 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 19:18 Edit Quote

and it isent easy to get a gun, you need a certificate and have to bee 18 years or older to legaly own one. of course there are illegal wepons ..but not many..most wepons used in a murder crime actualy is a legal wepon.. a yes and the hunters are all in the hunters guild so that is very strickt too

(Edited by Blacknight on 05-07-2006 19:20)

hyperbole
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Madison, Indiana, USA
Insane since: Aug 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 19:40 Edit Quote
quote:

At0mic_PC said:

What do you guys use for home/vehicle defense?




A claymor.

.



-- not necessarily stoned... just beautiful.


(Edited by hyperbole on 05-07-2006 19:41)

At0mic_PC
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Columbia MS USA
Insane since: Apr 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 21:28 Edit Quote

The sword or the explosive device? I'm guessing the sword. Pretty swords.

Arthemis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Milky Way
Insane since: Nov 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-07-2006 23:31 Edit Quote

what i think is fun.. is that by changing a few words on this topic - not many, just a few - this could be another of those, almost exactly like, threads that go "hey guys, i bought this new digital camera, blah blah"

Patrick
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Austin, TX
Insane since: Dec 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-08-2006 04:28 Edit Quote

I ask one question. For those of you who are for gun control, do you want the police and the GOVERNMENT to be the only entities with weapons, or would you rather be able to rise up and overthrow an government that is nolonger of the people, for the people, and by the people?


The government should be afraid of it citizens, not vice versa.

---
I suck at graphics, I suck like a black hole...

Blaise
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: London
Insane since: Jun 2003

IP logged posted posted 05-08-2006 11:23 Edit Quote

I believe in Switzerland there is a larger population of guns than people, due to miliatary service, when citizens are not at training which happens a few months every year they MUST take their guns home with them and regularly look after them. Switzerland also has a very low gun crime/death rate.

Frankly I think it's all to do with education, guns are a tool for war, not for arguments or even protection. Most people in Western Europe don't consider guns in the same way as Americans.

Now naturally you'll use any means necessary to protect yourself and kin from harm, but the gun needn't your first option, I'm absolutely with poi and Jestah on this, as has been said before; guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Blaise
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: London
Insane since: Jun 2003

IP logged posted posted 05-08-2006 11:37 Edit Quote

Woohoo double post!

(Edited by Blaise on 05-08-2006 12:50)

docilebob
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: buttcrack of the midwest
Insane since: Oct 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-08-2006 21:29 Edit Quote

I`m with moaiz all the way on this one. There are huundreds of ways to defend yourself in most everyday situations. From roudy drunks to road rage. Lots of things make dandy self defense weapons, from glass ashtrays to car keys and steel toed shoes.

but sometimes you just have to shoot the f*ucker.
Personally, I would rather do the training, and be prepared for any situation than wait til I find myself in a bad way and think 'oops, wish I'd learned some self defense'.


GUN CONTROL IS BEING ABLE TO PUT 2 BULLETS IN THE SAME HOLE.

docilebob
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: buttcrack of the midwest
Insane since: Oct 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-08-2006 21:33 Edit Quote

oops

(Edited by docilebob on 05-09-2006 19:45)

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 05-08-2006 23:31 Edit Quote

[doh]The dreaded double post lurgy strikes again[/doh]

(Edited by Tao on 05-08-2006 23:35)

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 05-08-2006 23:33 Edit Quote
quote:

At0mic_PC said:

Well I guess if you're ok with someone coming in to your home killing your family and raping your dog and feel like you can somehow rationalize with an armed psychopath then you don't need a gun. You have to educate your children about guns. You can't just let them figure out how it works by themselves. Handgun safes are a great way to keep them out of your children's hands and still allow you to get them when you need it. I think it's great that your country doesn't think you're responsible enough to own a gun.


At0mic_PC, you also said somewhere "I guess I live in a more innocent part of the world." I must say that whatever part of the world you come from, it does not sound very innocent to me.
America and its gun laws are both baffling and a cause of distress to me. Regardless of the often quoted and I'm presuming true, "The legally owned guns are not the problem, it's the illegal guns that are used for most of the crimes", or words to that effect. Illegally owned guns were once legally owned by someone and somehow along the line they have become illegal or illegally owned.
You started this thread by asking “What do you guys use for home/vehicle defense? Do any of you have a CCW permit?”

I have spent a large portion of my life training in martial arts; I am quite handy with nunchaku too. The best kind of home defence I have found so far is this. I go out and talk to my neighbors, not just my immediate neighbors but as many around me as I can. I’m sure you must see the sense and the strategy behind this.

Good locks and visible alarms help too of course. Look for all the vulnerable places where a thief is likely to break in. I have lived in some very rough places; areas were the crime rate is very high (for England) especially for breaking into homes. One method I recommend for those who feel they can hear potential thieves and vagabonds prowling around outside at night, is to get your camera, handily placed, and set the flash ready. From a safe position, just using your hand, stick the camera by the window where you can hear the most noise and let rip with the flash as if you were photographing something through the window. The object here is not to get a good photo, although that could be a bonus, what we are doing is making any one out there think twice about what they are doing.

I think it must be the gun culture in America that pervades the mindset of people who want a gun anyway, to worry them with tales of rape and murder as you have done here until they feel they are somehow lacking in their duty if they are not armed “for any potential threat”

INSANEdrive
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Therapy Department 117 :Skining and Mods
Insane since: Jan 2005

IP logged posted posted 05-09-2006 00:04 Edit Quote
quote:

At0mic_PC said:

I just got me a Springfield Armoury XD in .45 ACP a few months back. I love it. My only complaint is that I don't have a place to shoot it. This thing is very loud. I accidentally forgot to put my ear plugs in one day and my ears were ringing. Needless to say I quickly remembered the plugs.What do you guys use for home/vehicle defense? Do any of you have a CCW permit?



I know Kung-Fu...and thats all you need to know

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There Is A Fine Line Between Genius and Insanity... I Have Erased this line

JKMabry
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: raht cheah
Insane since: Aug 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-09-2006 00:47 Edit Quote

Tao's last 'security' pic

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