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EDDII
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: May 2004

IP logged posted posted 08-18-2006 16:49 Edit Quote

hey, does anyone know how to make a marquee loop continuously?

kimson
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Royal Horsing Ground
Insane since: Jan 2005

IP logged posted posted 08-18-2006 17:19 Edit Quote

I assume you're talking about Flash? If not, forget what follows...
Have you tried something like: on "Enter Frame", "GoToAndPlay [insert name of your marquee here]?".
Maybe it's plain nonsense, but it would also be helpful to have an example.

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 08-18-2006 17:25 Edit Quote

Considering the fact that this is in the HTML forum, I'm wondering... are you talking about the <marquee> tag? Please tell me you're not.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 08-18-2006 17:27 Edit Quote

you don't. Marquee are bad.

Or if you absolutetly want to, you google for 'marquee html tag', and you'll find the reference of the marquee 'tag' in less time than it took me to write that post.

kimson
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Royal Horsing Ground
Insane since: Jan 2005

IP logged posted posted 08-18-2006 17:49 Edit Quote

Oh wow, I'd never heard of them... I Googled the stuff and found this; it does look rather dodgy indeed.

reisio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Florida
Insane since: Mar 2005

IP logged posted posted 08-18-2006 18:03 Edit Quote

JavaScript

H][RO
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Australia
Insane since: Oct 2002

IP logged posted posted 08-19-2006 04:18 Edit Quote

pretty dodgey but they have their place, can be useful in places like CMS's if used correctly

divinechaos
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Dec 2001

IP logged posted posted 09-14-2006 03:44 Edit Quote
code:
<marquee style='text-decoration:blink;'>marquee</marquee>



The ultimate in marquee.

Regards,
DC

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 09-14-2006 09:18 Edit Quote

Come on, the only valid of text-decoration:blink is :

Schrödinger's cat is <span style='text-decoration:blink'>not</span> dead.

hawkwind dave
Obsessive-Compulsive (I) Inmate

From: up north
Insane since: Nov 2006

IP logged posted posted 11-25-2006 16:18 Edit Quote

Hello people,

A quick question....

why is the marquee considered an 'evil' tag?

I hear so many folk claiming this, but never hearany actual reasons.

cheers, Dave

I am your knee

Wes
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Inside THE BOX
Insane since: May 2000

IP logged posted posted 11-25-2006 20:44 Edit Quote

Besides the fact that scrolling marquees are annoying, they are possibly the least useful way of conveying information.

When you have to communicate something in a limited amount of space, like news or stock prices on the outside of a building or headlines at the bottom of a TV screen (though I still find those distracting), a scrolling message may be necessary. However, on Web site, you have a whole computer screen to work with, which a user can scroll himself to read at his own pace.

With a scrolling marquee, the user is forced to read the information at a pace determined by something out of his control. Plus, if he starts reading in the middle of the message, he has to wait for it to come all the way back around again to get all the information.

To make things worse, people usually use the marquee tag to emphasize something important, yet doing so makes it even more difficult to get the information.

Lurch
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Behind the Wheel
Insane since: Jan 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-08-2006 11:17 Edit Quote

oh wow. marquee, blink, image maps, frames. what a trip down memory lane (c. 1996)

i'm going to have nightmares. scrolly, blinky, 256 color nightmares.

hawkwind dave
Obsessive-Compulsive (I) Inmate

From: up north
Insane since: Nov 2006

IP logged posted posted 12-08-2006 12:12 Edit Quote
quote:

Wes said:
Plus, if he starts reading in the middle of the message, he has to wait for it to come all the way back around again to get all the information.



They can click refresh to restart the marquee from the beginning. One can code the tag so it slows or stops on hover.

What i'm asking is, 'why is the <marquee> tag considered evil, dodgy or bad?' I'm asking about the tag itself, not whether one finds the resulting scrolling text aesthetically pleasing or not.

BTW, I do agree that scrolling text can be annoying most of the time, but this page... http://www.britsuperstore.com/ ... makes good use of the marquee tag (the one top left), there's another at the bottom of the page, and if one feels compelled to read that one.... seek prefessional help! :-)

I am your knee

DL-44
Lunatic (VI) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

IP logged posted posted 12-08-2006 13:48 Edit Quote
quote:
What i'm asking is, 'why is the <marquee> tag considered evil, dodgy or bad?' I'm asking about the tag itself, not whether one finds the resulting scrolling text aesthetically pleasing or not.



Exactly because of the things Wes stated.
The tag itself is long deprecated as far as I recall, and the result of its usage is a horrible thing.

Is that not enough?

As to refreshing the page - do you really want to tell your users to refresh the page to see a message Or have them sit and wait to read it Or even that they must hover their mouse over the text to actually read it

These are basically the '101' rules of web design: don't make your user wait or work to see your message!

As for the page you posted - I don't see anything that could possibly be considered 'good use' of the tag there (neither the top nor the bottom). In fact, it illustrates Wes' point quite well - there is more than enough space for the scrolling message to be displayed statically in the same spot. It is an abomination to have it scrolling instead...

~shrug~

if none of this is enough to convince you...I don't know what else to tell you...

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-08-2006 14:56 Edit Quote

correction: Marquee is not deprecated for the simple reason that is has never been in the HTML specification. Add to that the poor usability and you can really shoot the damn thing.

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-08-2006 15:01 Edit Quote

First of all:

quote:
I'm asking about the tag itself, not whether one finds the resulting scrolling text aesthetically pleasing or not.



What does that even mean? How can you separate the tag itself from what it does? HTML tags are not like friends who might be cool to hang around with in general but have these really annoying habits that get on your nerves from time to time. ("Yeah, marquee, he's not that bad a guy, but hang it all if he can't walk by a piece of text without making it scroll!") Their entire raison d'etre is their function. If the resulting scrolling text is evil (and I think we've established that), then the tag behind it is evil.

As Wes pointed out, the marquee is a technique used to convey information in a limited space. It would be like having really long columns of text on your web site--say, four columns--that ran down several screen lengths. Can you imagine how annoying it would be to have to scroll down and then scroll back up and then scroll back down, etc., just to read the text? What worked for newspapers does not work for the web (I'm not saying that you can't have columns, of course, but they have to be adapted to the web environment). In the same way, the marquee tag is an example of a technique that was the result of trying to apply non-web solutions to the web before everyone figured out that the web is an entirely different medium with different rules.

Does that make sense?

And for the record, the Brit Superstore page does not use the marquee tag. The effect is achieved with JavaScript. Not that that makes it any less of an abomination, of course, but I just thought I'd point it out. On the positive side, if you surf with JS off by default (like I do) you don't have to deal wtih scrolling text.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

DL-44
Lunatic (VI) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

IP logged posted posted 12-08-2006 17:33 Edit Quote
quote:

poi said:

correction: Marquee is not deprecated for the simple reason that is has never been in the HTML specification. Add to that the poor usability and you can really shoot the damn thing.


thanks for the correction. I guess that makes it worse than I thought =)

hawkwind dave
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: up north
Insane since: Nov 2006

IP logged posted posted 12-09-2006 19:41 Edit Quote
quote:

Suho1004 said:

And for the record, the Brit Superstore page does not use the marquee tag. The effect is achieved with JavaScript.



It is a marquee, hence this from the source code....
<marquee width="130" height="189" scrollamount="3" onMouseover="this.scrollAmount=1" onMouseout="this.scrollAmount=3" direction="up" class="brit-store-marquee">

the java is for the menu below the marquee.

i guess it's a down to what the client wants. Customer wanted a scrolling news thingy, customer gets a scrolling news thingy. And at the end of the day, the customer is always right even when they're wrong.

as long as the more common browsers (IE, FireFox, Navigator & Opera) support the tag I'll use it if the client wants it. (although opera displays the upwards marquee as static text & images, but not my problem anymore). Once the browsers stop supporting the tag, i will follow suit and stop using it.

I couldn't give a toss what tags w3c thinks we should and shouldn't use.

the marquee at the bottom is helping the britsuperstore site rank for allsorts of product searches it wasn't ranking for before hand. That text is not for the site visitors to read, it's for the search engines. Hence being stuck in a marquee tag rather than the big dull list of keywords plonked at the foot of his pages for all and sundry to be offended by.

by the way, Hello everyone!

I am your knee

hawkwind dave
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: up north
Insane since: Nov 2006

IP logged posted posted 12-09-2006 20:18 Edit Quote
quote:

EDDII said:

hey, does anyone know how to make a marquee loop continuously?




I guess it's about time somebody actually tried to answer the original question.

there's a list of marquee atributes here, http://www.scit.wlv.ac.uk/encyc/marquee.html

with the addition of direction up & down aswell as left and right.

I am your knee

(Edited by hawkwind dave on 12-09-2006 20:19)

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-09-2006 21:10 Edit Quote

Hello and welcome.

I'm not against being pragmatic and cutting corners at times, but you know, when you make a website, as in write HTML + CSS pages, you'd rather go by the standards. Which standards emanate from the W3C. Right now computer says no : your site in not valid.

As for the SEO argument about the second marquee, have you ever heard about display:none; and semantic markup ?


Cut the crap a.k.a table based layout, font tags, marquee, multiple HEAD, BODY and HTML tags, document.write( navigationMarkup ), ... and your sites will be lighter, more accessible, work in more browsers and have better ranking in search engines.

It takes some time and efforts to switch from oldschool HTML to proper (X)HTML + CSS but it's really worth it. In the end you'll serve your customers better.

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-09-2006 21:15 Edit Quote

hawkwind dave:

quote:
I guess it's about time somebody actually tried to answer the original question

Strangely enough the link you pasted appear when you do the search I mentionned in my first post, 3 weeks ago



(Edited by poi on 12-09-2006 21:16)

DL-44
Lunatic (VI) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

IP logged posted posted 12-09-2006 21:55 Edit Quote
quote:

hawkwind dave said:

i guess it's a down to what the client wants. Customer wanted a scrolling news thingy, customer gets a scrolling news thingy. And at the end of the day, the customer is always right even when they're wrong.


That works great as a motivational poster in a grocery store break-room perhaps.
In the real world, it's a more complex matter, and 'what the cusstomer wants' in regard to web design is something that needs to be shaped, at least in part, by the web designer/developer.

The bottom line is that such a thing as this scrolling text is bad practice on pretty much every level. Clearly you are at liberty to use such things if you desire, but you must understand the negative effect such things will have as well. You may wish to do a search on something like "web design 101" for a ton of additional reference and study in regard to such things...


quote:

hawkwind dave said:

the marquee at the bottom is helping the britsuperstore site rank for allsorts of product searches it wasn't ranking for before hand. That text is not for the site visitors to read, it's for the search engines. Hence being stuck in a marquee tag rather than the big dull list of keywords plonked at the foot of his pages for all and sundry to be offended by.



As you can clearly see, things like scolling text do a perfectly good job of offending 'all and sundry'

There are *far* more effective methods of improving a site's search rankings - again, a simple search for 'SEO' will return many a good article, study, and tutorial in this regard.

Do you seriously think it wise to distract visitors to a website with something as mundane as keywords, scrolling across the bottom of the page, diverting attention from the actual content?

quote:

hawkwind dave said:

I couldn't give a toss what tags w3c thinks we should and shouldn't use.


You don't care what the body that governs the standards we code by has to say about the code....?
Don't know what to tell you then.....

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 12-10-2006 08:43 Edit Quote
quote:

hawkwind dave said:

It is a marquee, hence this from the source code....<marquee width="130" height="189" scrollamount="3" onMouseover="this.scrollAmount=1" onMouseout="this.scrollAmount=3" direction="up" class="brit-store-marquee">the java is for the menu below the marquee.



My bad. There is indeed a marquee tag in there. But apparently it's not a pure implementation, because it doesn't seem to run without javascript (not java, by the way... the two are very different things). Try viewing the page with javascript disabled to see what I mean.

You seem to have your mind made up on the matter, so I'm not going to attempt to persuade you differently. If you really don't care about standards, then you do what you have to do. You are indeed entitled to use the marquee tag if you so desire. Just don't expect people here to support your decision.

hawkwind dave
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: up north
Insane since: Nov 2006

IP logged posted posted 12-11-2006 03:33 Edit Quote
quote:

poi said:

Hello and welcome. I'm not against being pragmatic and cutting corners at times, but you know, when you make a website, as in write HTML + CSS pages, you'd rather go by the standards. Which standards emanate from the W3C. Right now computer says no : your site in not valid.



Hello Poi,

Whilst I understand why w3c has created a set of standards for us all, a site which does not pass w3c validation does not mean that the site is bad in any way. I'm aware that it doesn't validate, but whilst it does not validate, it displays correctly in the browsers the vast majority of us use. So long as it displays correctly in IE & FF I'm happy.

BTW, I didn't build that website, i just mentioned it because i like the way the marquee has been used (the top one). The client wanted a 'news ticker' type thing, so i gave him one which he can easily edit. If he said "i want a news ticker" and I said "no you don't", he may have just gone to another company which would give him what he asked for. I could have talked him out of it in more constructive manner with regards to it being distracting, etc..., but personally, I don't think it's that bad, and the client is/was happy with it.

quote:

DL-44 said:

'what the customer wants' in regard to web design is something that needs to be shaped, at least in part, by the web designer/developer.



I agree entirely.

quote:

poi said:
As for the SEO argument about the second marquee, have you ever heard about display:none; and semantic markup ?



I don't want to use hidden text in any form, hence not using display:none; . I'm aware of semantic markup, but haven't really looked that deeply into it, I'll take your advice and read up on it.

I worked on that site a couple of years ago, the client was a sole trader and asked the company i worked for at the time to help him with his rankings. All i did was bang a marquee full of keywords at the foot of his pages and his orders went through the roof, so much so that he had to employ a full time member of staff to help him with the increase in orders. I'm not trying to blow my own trumpet here, just trying to explain why I'm defending the marquee tag in this thread. However, I don't use that particular method these days.


quote:

poi said:
Cut the crap a.k.a table based layout, font tags, marquee, multiple HEAD, BODY and HTML tags, document.write( navigationMarkup ), ... and your sites will be lighter, more accessible, work in more browsers and have better ranking in search engines.It takes some time and efforts to switch from oldschool HTML to proper (X)HTML + CSS but it's really worth it. In the end you'll serve your customers better.



That site is an Actinic site (version 5 i seem to remember), the code is generated from god knows how many templates and the resulting generated code is rather dense (or, to be honest, a right bloody mess!). Not sure if the more recent versions of actinic generate a friendlier code as I've not worked with it for a good while now, but somehow i doubt it.

Like i say, i worked on the seo side of that site ages ago. When i build a website from scratch i do use CSS for all font styling and positioning. I've never liked farting around with tables and only use them if i need to display information in a table format. Although I am still a tad old school with my html. (which i guess is obvious to you all

quote:

Suho1004 said:
My bad. There is indeed a marquee tag in there. But apparently it's not a pure implementation, because it doesn't seem to run without javascript (not java, by the way... the two are very different things). Try viewing the page with javascript disabled to see what I mean.



The contents of the marquee(s) are included from external files (which makes it easier for the client to edit), which could explain this. Although I'm not 100% sure, my knowledge of java/javascript leaves a lot to be desired.

I would like to say that I do respect and appreciate the knowledge, views and opinions of everybody here. I'm not here to argue or dissagree, I'm here to further my skills and to be an active member of this forum.

every now and then one see's comments in a thread which promts one to ask 'why?', which is the nature of forums, we're here to ask, discuss and stick our hoar in.

it's good to exchange views and opinions (even if you all think I'm nuts with my 'couldn't give a toss about w3c' comment) and look forward to doing so with you all in the foreseeable future.

:-) dave

I am your knee

(Edited by hawkwind dave on 12-11-2006 03:43)

hotwire
Neurotic (0) Inmate
Newly admitted

From:
Insane since: Jan 2009

IP logged posted posted 01-24-2009 09:50 Edit Quote

WHAT A BUNCH OF NONSENSE CRAP I'VE READ HERE!

I understand this is an older post back from 2006, and yes the good OLD marquee tag has been deprecated.. That's what got me to this page, because like hawkwind, The marquee does have usable uses and as of Jan 2009, it appears to work in all major browsers..

With that stated, I cant for the life of me see why this tag by some web designers is so hated.. Most of the nonsense arguments I have read here and at the W3c is still not a GOOD argument to hate such a tag unless you just clearly hate its original simplicity.. It does give you ample attributes to give the dam thing some controllable abilities!

Let's face it, the tag lived quite well before all the new dynamic web page changes come into effect to make browser more fit for the new age, but I have sparingly used marquees quite effective with my family website for scrolling member birthdays, and scrolling members who are online... So marquees does have a place for websites and design..

If you're marketing a web page, then maybe this want be the best idea of a tag for you, but to say it is a trash tag is nonsense.. That's a Personal Issue if you ask me.. And as hawkwind stated, just because is is denounced as deprecated doesn't make the tag the worst thing in life .. Let's face it, I can bet many of you growlers have a couple of tags you liked to use that are now deprecated as well..RIGHT?

Bottom line, it's not up to a few web designers, and W3c as well, to determine if a tag will work well for a designers website or not, there's different strokes for different folks.. If the tag pulled too many browser resources to do what it does, then that would be more confining to a hated tag, just as we are encouraged to use CSS in place of the right now Font tags etc.. (And let me State that CSS is great for replacing the older font attribute coding).

IMO... have a good year..

(Edited by hotwire on 01-24-2009 10:05)

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

IP logged posted posted 01-24-2009 12:12 Edit Quote

What the heck? Your first post ever on this forum and you dig up a thread that is now over two years old to insult a bunch of long-time members?

Normally I would say, "Welcome," but... yeah, maybe not this time. Way to start your stay here with a bang.


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org | Cell 270 | Sig Rotator | the Fellowship of Sup

DL-44
Lunatic (VI) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

IP logged posted posted 01-24-2009 15:45 Edit Quote

And way to clearly show your lack of knowledge

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

IP logged posted posted 01-25-2009 00:25 Edit Quote

hotwire
Obsessive-Compulsive (I) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jan 2009

IP logged posted posted 01-25-2009 17:21 Edit Quote

Call it disrespect or lack of knowledge of which neither applies to my response to this old topic... It just goes to show that some people can't handle fair argument about certain issues...

I just clearly stated my point of view about the marquee tag, and that I believe it is nonsense the way some of you trash the tag.. I clearly stated the reasons why I considered the the tag useful for certain uses depending on the users use of the tag.. And because I agreed with someone within this thread that didn't quite agree with all of the negativity about this tag, does not imply that I am disrespecting anyone here..

And if you wanna jump on my @ss prematurely about being a first time poster here, then that's fine, but i will not change my view about the way you trash the tag nor my statements of why the tag works for some and not others..

So keep your welcome with you..

I'm no idiot to internet forums, I've used them for over 15 yrs, and I do know some stale members tend to negatively tag new users when they want some type of negative drama.. I clearly believe my response was appropriate to this tag and did not directly disrespect anyone by saying "Nonsense".. So take it as you will..

DL-44
Lunatic (VI) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

IP logged posted posted 01-25-2009 18:33 Edit Quote
quote:

hotwire said:

I just clearly stated...



You did no such thing


just for the record

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

IP logged posted posted 01-25-2009 19:33 Edit Quote

wait .... .... *scratches head* ... hello Argo ... how've you been?

hotwire
Obsessive-Compulsive (I) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jan 2009

IP logged posted posted 01-26-2009 16:40 Edit Quote
quote:

DL-44 said:

quote:hotwire said:I just clearly stated...You did no such thing just for the record



Blah Blah Blah...

Clearly Stated: I clearly stated the reasons why I considered the the tag useful for certain uses depending on the users use of the tag.
Clearly Stated: I have sparingly used marquees quite effective with my family website for scrolling member birthdays, and scrolling members who are online... So marquees does have a place for websites and design..

I shouldn't have to make that anymore clear, or do I? GEE WIZ!

And for the record, I have and can also use javascript just as effectively than the marquee, pending on the circumstances, the marquee makes for more simpler coding depending on the information being scrolled. No Problem here.. Just Insane In The Membrane on a Marquee Tag In the Drain..

(Edited by hotwire on 01-26-2009 16:46)

DL-44
Lunatic (VI) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

IP logged posted posted 01-26-2009 17:58 Edit Quote

What exactly is it that you hope to accomplish by digging up a 2 year old conversation and being an asshole about it?

I would highly recommend calming down a bit and losing the chip...

hotwire
Obsessive-Compulsive (I) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jan 2009

IP logged posted posted 01-26-2009 21:01 Edit Quote

Didn't know you would crack so easy by calling me names... Don't get me started boy, You've failed to debate my issue on an adult level, so don't start the name callin!

This was all about me expressing my opinion over this original topic, if you can't handle my responses to your failed negative replies, I would leave it alone..

You call me an asshole because I answered your lame reply... Get A Grip.. Lunatic Under the Bed!

By the way.. This 2 year old topic appears to have you by the nuts..

(Edited by hotwire on 01-26-2009 21:06)

DL-44
Lunatic (VI) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000