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poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 10-07-2007 00:53

Craig Venter, the controversial DNA researcher involved in the race to decipher
the human genetic code, has built a synthetic chromosome out of laboratory
chemicals and is poised to announce the creation of the first new artificial
life form on Earth.


Fascinating and thoughts provoking research.
I'm against patenting genetic finds but this breaktrough is worth protecting for a few years until scientific community and states agree on how to deal with the possibility to create new species.



(Edited by poi on 10-07-2007 00:54)

SleepingWolf
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2006

posted posted 10-07-2007 03:38

Where can I buy one, and how long is the battery life?

Does that make Venter the Artificial God?

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poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 10-07-2007 04:00

Slightly off topic but:

quote:
Does that make Venter the Artificial God?


AFAIK all deities are artificial, read we still have to see the slightest shred of a proof of their existence. If Venter were to be a god, he would be the first/only real one.

reisio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Florida
Insane since: Mar 2005

posted posted 10-07-2007 09:46
quote:
Bacteria could be created, he speculates, that could help mop up excessive carbon dioxide,


That sounds like a terrible idea (y'know unless the world is about to succumb, or something, I s'pose).

quote:
I'm against patenting genetic finds


I'm against patenting anything. If you want to protect something, don't show it to people - better yet don't advertise its existence and the enormous possibilities.

Will have to think more about what I think of creating organisms in general... probably won't be a fan. I thought making goats that produced spider silk was irresponsible (and for what? Profit.).

White Hawk
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: zero divided.
Insane since: May 2004

posted posted 10-07-2007 13:29

Ooh! A palpable step. IMO, a step well overdue. I'm excited.

Tyberius Prime
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Germany
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted posted 10-07-2007 16:56

well... there's a lot more to a living cell than just a complete dna... there's a reason these things multiply by
division, not by 'assembling a smaller copy'.
So even if Craig can assemble a complete chromosome, which by the way is a looooong step
from 'synthesized a complete chromosome de-novo', more like a patchwork of existing elements,
he'll still need a host to plant it in...

Anyhow, if we weren't meant to tinker with this stuff, genomes would be encrypted better.
We have manipulated our complete surroundings since we've been around, breeding animals
is not much different from most 'genetic manipulation' (with the added bonus that genetic
methods can combine spiders and goats .

mas
Maniac (V) Mad Librarian

From: the space between us
Insane since: Sep 2002

posted posted 10-07-2007 20:27
quote:
he'll still need a host to plant it in...


i think he thought about that in advance. and if not....i'll sacrifice myself


The Space Between Us | My Blog: lukas.grumet.at

Tyberius Prime
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Germany
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted posted 10-07-2007 21:14

the article actually mentions that the'll put the genome into a cell with (mostly) removed DNA

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: the dungeons, corridor 13, cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

posted posted 10-07-2007 22:21

"creation of the first new artificial life form on Earth." No it is not.
Wake me up when they have created their equivalents of ribosome, vesicle, golgi apparatus, mitochondria, vacuole, cytoplasm, lysosome, centrioles etc. There's more than just DNA/RNA to a cell. How can they call it creation of artifical life if they change only a tiny part of an existing life form.

SleepingWolf
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2006

posted posted 10-07-2007 23:15
quote:

Arthurio said:

"creation of the first new artificial life form on Earth." No it is not.Wake me up when they have created their equivalents of ribosome, vesicle, golgi apparatus, mitochondria, vacuole, cytoplasm, lysosome, centrioles etc. There's more than just DNA/RNA to a cell. How can they call it creation of artifical life if they change only a tiny part of an existing life form.



Define life. Not all cells have all the organelles you specify. Red blood cells are alive yet they do not even have a nucleus nor mitochondria. Bacteria do not have mitochondria either. And viruses? Phages? Some are nothing more than glorified strings of DNA.

So again, the real question is what is life? Did Venter create life? I don't think so. Only God can create life - but then again is there a God, is there such a thing as creation? or is it all about evolution?

On the other side of the coin, let's see what will come out of this technology - let's hope for the best.

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(Edited by SleepingWolf on 10-07-2007 23:17)

Wes
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Inside THE BOX
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 10-08-2007 03:33
quote:
with the added bonus that genetic methods can combine spiders and goats



Better yet, spiders and turkeys. What a Thanksgiving that would be!

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: the dungeons, corridor 13, cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

posted posted 10-08-2007 09:24
quote:

SleepingWolf said:

Define life. Not all cells have all the organelles you specify. Red blood cells are alive yet they do not even have a nucleus nor mitochondria. Bacteria do not have mitochondria either. And viruses? Phages? Some are nothing more than glorified strings of DNA.



To me red blood cells may be alive but they aren't a separate life form. I would be satisfied if they could create something that eats, replicates and is able to evolve. This is pretty much how I define life. But for it to be artificial it would have to be made from scratch.

(Edited by Arthurio on 10-08-2007 09:26)

SleepingWolf
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2006

posted posted 10-08-2007 16:19
quote:

Arthurio said:

quote:To me red blood cells may be alive but they aren't a separate life form. I would be satisfied if they could create something that eats, replicates and is able to evolve. This is pretty much how I define life. But for it to be artificial it would have to be made from scratch.(Edited by Arthurio on 10-08-2007 09:26)



Yeah, I see your point. I doubt we'll see what you are expecting in our lifetimes.


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WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 10-08-2007 16:22

Really cool!

Thanks for posting it!

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

SleepingWolf
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2006

posted posted 10-08-2007 17:31

At Heathrow a week ago, I picked up Jame Watson's "DNA - The Secret of Life".

In that book they also present the first reference for "making life" - Kornberg and a test tube variety.


Kornberg also won a Nobel Prize.

http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2006/october11/kornberg-101106.html

Today it's no longer seen as that a big deal, well relatively speaking - let's see how we progress from here.

The Venter concept goes back, interestingly to 2003, when other researchers also claimed to have created life:
http://www.sonoma.edu/users/t/thatcher/biol518/present3-5a.htm

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(Edited by SleepingWolf on 10-08-2007 17:39)

Tyberius Prime
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Germany
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted posted 10-08-2007 18:14

Red blood cells can't reproduce (they even loose their dna when differentiating from stem cells into red blood cells).

Regular biological definition of life is 'has a metabolism and reproduces' - which excludes viri, red blood cells, and some other phenomena.

A phage is nothing but a virus that attacks a bacterial host.

Progress in biology is fast these days - dna sequencing becomes cheaper every day, and there are a lot of interesting
techniques just at the horizon - I wouldn't be suprised to see that we master a more complete 'cell assembly' during my life time.

And after all, it doesn't matter if you need to have other cells that produce the necessary surroundings. It only counts
that it does what you want it to do

SleepingWolf
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2006

posted posted 10-08-2007 18:26
quote:

Tyberius Prime said:

Regular biological definition of life



There is no such thing as a "regular biological definition of life"....that is so carbon based life form of you.


If you're saying that red blood cells are not alive, trust me you will be challenged by every biologist on the planet. They are very much alive. The ability to reproduce should not be a factor - many insects can't reproduce - only the queen.

As for metabolism? Not only do red blood cells have metabolism during their short life span but they also produce substances. Just because they don't have mitochrondia doesn't mean they don't need energy - they do, like all living tissue - but they get there energy from anaerobic pathways. It's ALIVE!

Ok now for red blood cells not having any DNA? Well that's true, they don't have a nucleus either, but it's only true for mammals (which are not the most prolific creatures on earth) - that's right, other vertebrates do have DNA in their red blood cells.




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(Edited by SleepingWolf on 10-08-2007 18:48)



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