Hm. As any project in life :
- identify purpose
- identify means
- get done.
So. To me, newcomer, the Asylum HAS a purpose (yes I was lurking for some time, and yes many people do : ever noticed how the Asylum
ranks in search engines?). I mean, a productive purpose as well : it is a place where some knowledge unique to the web is explored daily.
..Nowadays, although I understand the original purpose of the gurusnetwork, what has it become? Where does it stand?
Is it an Asylum "adult" alter ego? Is there still the same guru's network? Is it a commemoration?
I recommend you/we figure out what that place stands for (btw, it contains some mind boggling tuts, namely the ones about Photoshop or
Illustrator) first and foremost.
Can't we just move all those tutorials and stuff into the FAQ? Or maybe have an entire section in the FAQ for content moved from Guru's Network?
When I first joined Guru's Network, I didn't understand why it was created when we had the Ozone Asylum... I still don't understand why it exists.
Tyberius Prime
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers
From: Germany Insane since: Sep 2001
posted 10-23-2007 16:47
zavaboy:
parts of it are historical reasons.
The faq were established later than the GN,
and the two places had a different focus
and a very different feel, even though they shared
a lot of members.
The faq currently does not support even half the features the gn tutorials have,
and honestly, what's the need?
Not to mention that the GN only has licensed it's content for gurusnetwork.com.
Both sites lack leadership, and while the asylum is still a mumbling madhouse
of like- and different- minded individuals*,
the GN was a place of twenty one associates in no particular order,
of which I haven't seen at least two thirds around...
So long,
->Tyberius Prime
* - last six months show 401 threads, 3506 posts, 195 seperate posters.
Would you mind pointing out where I said both communities were dead? I clearly stated that both communities have died down over the years. If you want to tell yourself that it's not the case and the Easter Bunny actually exists, that's your business. Not mine.
Jestah, fwiw, I read your comment to mean dying down not dead, and I also thought it was a positive comment to end with.
quote: Jestah said:
I hope things pick back up soon, this was such a great community.
I would also like to see more activity here and the the Guru's Network. I know I'll be posting here a lot more as the winter approaches and my time working outdoors is curtailed.
I realise that the times and tides of any entity like a public forum, change as do the seasons, but I also understand that it is not quite as simple as that. A forum like ours is only as good as the members make it. I also take Tyberius Prime's comment as true:
quote: Tyberius Prime said:
Both sites lack leadership, and while the asylum is still a mumbling madhouse
of like- and different- minded individuals*,
the GN was a place of twenty one associates in no particular order,
of which I haven't seen at least two thirds around...
A revamp of sorts has been suggested in the past perhaps now is the time to consider building on our strengths and cutting our weak points. There are some who have thought (for instance) that the BIG SIG forum is unnecessary. It is true that the participation levels have dropped a lot there and I can understand that. Although I have to say that I would miss it a lot if it were to go. There are other forums here that hardly get used too.
Having said ^all that^ I don't really know what can be done to increase the participation levels. Has the traffic to and from the Asylum dropped also?
I know I came here initially to learn more about Photoshop and to make my first faltering steps in making a website and understanding HTML and CSS. I have stayed because my steps are still wobbly and I've grown to love the place in its orange and blue magnificence and the people are pretty good too.
hmmm i think one reason of communities like the asylum and the GN are dying is the fakt that the Web has changed a lot in the last few years. Its all web2.0 and stuff. It has never been so easy to create your own websites upload your photos ect....
I think the avareage user(who would have stumbled in to this place the way we did it years ago) sees no need in learning these things(and learning is all it's about).
And the rest of us is moving along there ways, some stay here others fall out but hardly anyone new comes in.
I think it's the social networking sites such as Orkut and Myspace that have killed GN and are killing our dear asylum. People spend way too much time staring at their own pictures. And of course Youtube with all it's clones where people can easily access user generated entertainment. This just doesn't leave any time for creativity and forums.
So I propose we advertise this site a little :PWhat if we all included www.ozoneasylum.com where ever it is possible to list your favorite websites and in our signatures on other forums? :P
I don't know if the last comment was meant to be a joke, I could guess from the slimeys, but..
Well. For one, I've seen an "ol friends gathering" right here the other day.
Then, the comment about "web 2.0 and 0wn1ng our web" is quite accurate I guess, but..
In the end, who gives a damn?
Do you like coming here? I do. Do a few hundred nutcases share the feeling? Obviously yes.
As for uniqueness, it's "easy" to make CRAPPY web 2.0. It's easy to apply styles in Photoshop.
Granted. Does that "touch" the extremes reached by maniacs like Poi, Shingebis, the Photoshop masters with speed painting, some
amazing print or photo work, the sigs..
Does that "know how" come built in in web 2.0 "frameworks" and Photoshop filters? NO it does not, and will never, ever, period.
And does the "scarcity" of famous posters in the halls, or the lack of dozens of newcomers hinder the quality of posts and discussions?
Don't know for sure, but I don't think.
@Jestah, I think reisio did indeed react out of a habit of "this is the death of the Asylum" complaints, no judgement meant on anyone here,
it's just that fact.. that old fact to old drivers.. that one tends to drive to the area they're looking at.
I think the underlying concept of "now is worse than yesterday" brought up a "what about tomorrow as a better day"? Kind of qualm.
And I tend to live in the now, and try to rejoice about the future while keeping an eye on potential difficulties.
So I'd avocate an "enjoy" kind of attitude.
(and I'd advocate an attempt at reaching the 21 Monkeys and trying to get to know what they want it to be or become).
I second Arthurio's proposal. But I would use the word "promote" over "advertise." If we truly love this community for what it is--or what it was, we will take those extra steps to show it.
I also agree with Tao about seasonal activity, but we can't deny that this place has been losing activity the past few years. I also agree with him that the forums are only as good as the members make it. So if we want this place to survive, we ourselves must survive and keep this train going full speed.
The Asylum has always had a place in my heart, because we are essentially family here.
BUT (advocate as in THE DEVIL'S advocate, it's a fun game to play) :
>> but we can't deny
As far as I am concerned, I cannot PROVE that there has been a drop in activity
(this takes measures, stats and maths, there are plenty of areas I just never watch so I can't tell what's going on there).
>> we will take those extra steps to show it.
It's the word extra, in advertizing, which disturbs me.
...Do cool people roam around saying "I am kewl"? Do cool people call for attention?
We are not SELLING anything here.
Technically, it's Doc O's "nuthouse", inherited by others, which we are talking about here.
I think this place is, in essence, the opposite of a commercial product : industry makes reasonable quality for masses.
Art is about quality for no reason, quality in expression.
Maybe we can start by refreshing the ways of thinking, "upgrading" to web 2.0 (although I'd like to point out that the concepts behind
web 2.0, Ajax, and such monstruous names were BORN in places like this, well, mostly this and www.ozones.com - and a few others).
...So, "upgrading" to web 2.0 could be a FAQ refresh, and mostly, some extreme skill demonstrations based on "exploring web 2.0".
(essentially, the idea is to upgrade -ways of thinking- in all areas, Flash, server side, client side, and maybe some other kind of "tip exchange" in the
outpatient counselling).
I don't think that web 2.0 is something that this asylum needs. It's crazy enough already. A forum in my opinion doesn't need to be an application. But a separate forum section for web 2.0/ajax? Maybe not too bad an idea but we already have separate sections for server side and client side scripting, html and whatnot.
Anyway we probably shouldn't concentrate on how cool we look. I think that the area where ozoneasylum has always shone the most is the expertise, knowledge and philosophy that is rich and cool but not in a show-off or commercial way (I'm wagging my finger at you conceptart.org and deviantart.com) and of course the tight community. I remember lurking around here since maybe 2001 or so, accountless and humbled. Been away on several occasions and briefly forgotten about asylum ... the shame ... but I have always returned with enthusiasm and usually with questions seeking answers, that I know - this community has.
However when cool things happen it's unfortunate if there are only so many to pay witness. Don't underestimate the poor sane. There are buds of insanity willing to blossom. I don't think anyone has announced a shortage of pills. Or in other words - the apocalypse.
Ok where's the blue pill. I need to sleep and do some work tomorrow.
Just a little chill pill.
I am a member of quite a few forums, most of which I visit three or four times a week. Some, like the Asylum, I visit daily, or at least every time I am on-line. I know what you mean Blacknight when you say;
quote: Blacknight said:
didn't say it wasnt great roming the halls ..was joust remembering the days when i couldn't keep up with the reading :-P
For me at times, when I visit here and find no new posts it's a lot like waiting at home for the postman to arrive only to see him walk past the gate with no goodies in the mail for me. It feels rather disappointing
Also I don't feel like the Asylum is dead or dying just changing and change is the disciple of life.
From: there...no..there..... Insane since: May 2001
posted 10-24-2007 02:59
There used to be a purpose at GN. If I remember correctly, GN was more geared toward tutorials and the like. The forums were just a section of it. The Asylum was were the forums really took place.
It's funny how every so often someone pops in and is concerned that things are slow here. It's not really. It comes and goes and I've seen it (as well as many others) do the same thing is cycles. Not that big of a deal. As for GN, there never was that much activity there. There *were* however more tutorials popping up now and again and it seems even that has fallen off.
The lack of leadership here surely doesn't seem to bother things. Not like it did a few years ago! WOOO! Crazy times. There was a hell fire fury running through the halls and Doc came in with one swoosh and BBBAAAMMM!! all the Mad Scientists privileges were gone. Poof! No more. That was freaking crazy. Eigh, those were the days. If some of you were not here during 9/11, man did you miss out! WOW! Freaking crazy shit flying around here those few days.
I digress as I reminisce...
So...I guess the "lack of leadership" is not a bad thing. I kind of think of TP is our leader now that Doc has pretty much handed over the reigns to him. And a damn fine job he has done with the forums.
Old things die, new things are born. This is the way of life, be it on the internet or out in meatspace. What is happening now is part of a cycle. Whether that cycle means that the Asylum is in a lull now but will return to greater activity later, or whether it means that the cycle is dying down, ultimately to be replaced by something else, I don't know.
Things have most definitely died down quite a bit here compared to what things used to be like, so I agree with Jestah on that. Where I disagree is the last part of his post: "this was such a great community." Which implies, of course, that it no longer is a great community. True, it's not nearly as active as it used to be, but I still love coming here. I miss some of the old people (Lacuna, Emps... are you still out there?), but I also enjoy the company of some of the newer people. I still consider myself a "new person," to be honest. Things have changed, there is no doubt about that. But I can't argue that they have changed either for better or for worse. They've just changed.
How can we increase participation.? The answer is simple: we can't. But at the same time, we can. We can't really force other people to participate more, but we can participate more ourselves. In the end, that's all we can do. If others decide to follow suit, we have increased participation. If not, we don't. In the end, though, what will happen will happen. Maybe that sounds fatalistic, but I don't think there's any point in worrying about what might happen. The Asylum may not be what it used to be, but I still like what it is.
Guess I got a bit of catching up to do. But first, a dose of clarification :
quote:
Or better yet, "Ajax sports" o)
I was talking about "refreshing ways of thinking." Compared to the pioneering that occured inside the halls,
Maybe there are some new grounds, now, to pioneer differently (as part of the discussions, wasn't suggesting a structure change).
Now, mind my curiosity, but two comments "upset" me somehow :
quote:
There was a hell fire fury running through the halls and Doc came in with one swoosh and BBBAAAMMM!!
all the Mad Scientists privileges were gone.
When was that and what was it about?
And that one...
quote:
On the other hand, maybe Ini left and took all his personalities with him.
Ok, we have bipolars, neurotics, but what's with the schizophrenia?
Namely (no the guy does not go unnoticed) what's with Ini and the "personalities" (and who are those personalities)?
From: there...no..there..... Insane since: May 2001
posted 10-24-2007 14:18
quote: argo navis said:
When was that and what was it about?
It was right around when I first joined I think. So about 5 - 6 years ago or so. There was a big argument between a few inmates that really went too far. A few old MS's got a bit of a control thing going and Doc was lurking around I guess and came in and said "You know what? No one runs this place but me. If that's the way you are going to act...BBBAAAMMM!!"
Then there was a bad scene during the whole 9/11 thing. One inmate ( that was a good contributor to the group ) said something and a few inmates really bashed him and started threatening him off site. Crazy. So...he contacted the Doc and wanted all records of his posts deleted. Doc made a big post about how he has never done that before and that he respected the wishes. So...all posts went away.
Anyway, just a bit of the Asylum history I guess. Might be able to find something in the Archives. Dunno though.
Ok, thank you. Stuff happens and I guess it is part of life : everybody is some other person's "moron", as long as clashes
are "negotiated" and resolved purposefully, life goes on.
This doesn't answer the bit about schizophrenia though : I have seen the posts with Ini. Google links to a bunch of them
but they, sadly, feel incomplete (especially some about javascript optimization).
The replacement message also feels awkward this said, it does give a feel of the tension surrounding that event, and that is sad in
and of itself.
..Yet nemesis mentionned multiple personalities : is that a "joke" or are there other "personas" he used that I could
"dig" from the vaults?
Back to the main thread track, the Asylum has been having a life of it's own for a while - long before the Doc left actually,
your accounts "show" this to a degree.
The "absence" of a leader
does not feel good but hey, if I was living in California and doing God knows what with my professional, independent life, had a family,
etc. I may not respond to any single thing or email I receive. And I probably receive a lot less than he does, so
to wrap it all up, "stuff still does happen".
Tyberius Prime
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers
From: Germany Insane since: Sep 2001
posted 10-24-2007 15:02
the MS debacle was before my time - but it's one of the things where I'm sure you'll find something in the archives.
InI... threw a dozen tandrums, ended up demanding all his posts deleted (see the archives), came back under a different name,
threw another tandrum, left, again....
The 'delete my posts less I sue thee'-tandrum made a lot of discussions in the archives one sided.
But hey, just contact him, I'm sure his demons made him take a copy of every post he ever made.
Personally, I've just about carved a living out of what I learned at the OZONE Asylum...
That's exactly my point here. I don't know the guy, I was asking for this :
>> under a different name
Anybody remembers that (or those) different names? Archives and the sink are just huge, I don't want to backtrack it all.
Back to "exactly my point", why do you sound that agressive to me about the topic? ("But hey, just contact him" may be perceived as rude,
sounds a bit like the next thing in your mind was a "screw you" when I am genuinely asking what to look at).
And the form of the "bye bye" message, as much as I don't give a rat's behind since I AM here, reflects exactly
THIS tension - you're basically telling me someone I don't know "threw a tantrum and left and threw a tantrum and left".
..I just wanted to check the valuable contributions, if any remains, rather than the tantrums, and I still know 0.23 about the person,
but now, I know that you like to depict people in a negative light - sad for someone who, indeed, "praises" this place and
contributes all he can to it.
,) Devil's advocate trying to "prove a concept" that will not impact ME much, after all, so no offense inside.
Tyberius Prime
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers
From: Germany Insane since: Sep 2001
posted 10-24-2007 17:09
Argo, please look at the post times, there's a reason your 'exact point' wasn't answered by my post.
I suggest you do own research, lest anyone takes you on a wrong track.
Googling for 'ini came back ozoneasylum' gives at least one more handle InI used to use.
So long,
->Tyberius Prime
Ps:
Other inmates, please excuse this diversion from the topic at hand.
How do revive the GN, and should we do so in the first place?
why do you sound that agressive to me about the topic? ("But hey, just contact him" may be perceived as rude,
sounds a bit like the next thing in your mind was a "screw you" when I am genuinely asking what to look at).
Keep in mind that Tyberius Prime was the direct receiver of a lot (if not most) of Ini's wrath and if he sounds a little upset about this situation, it's directed at the situation with Ini, not at you.
I inferred that CPrompt's post was made, at least, partly in jest. He's referring to incidents that happened in the past that seemed traumatic to those of us that were here at the time and that we look back on with some fondness now. It was an inside joke, and probably not worht the trouble to dig up what happened, but if you feel you must find out about them, go digging through the archive and you can find what happened there.
Yes there have been some problems here, but that are also a lot of good times to look back on and as a community, we have all learned a lot about each other, and I think because of how well we have gotten to know each other the good times will continue.
I personally like the quiet here. I'm not as reluctant to talk with fewer people around as I am when things are happening loud, and fast. Having more people around does help to get more opionons when someone needs help, but sometimes, the din overwhelms those that may be able to help in some situations.
Thank you hyperbole, I understand part of this (well, the looking back with fondness bit is a new information).
So, let me offer back this easy key to understanding me : challenging is something I consider a beautiful compliment -
I don't challenge the not so interesting, wether it is people or situations or (Asylums for instance).
I don't challenge in a rude or impolite way either. Challenging -with respect- other people's thoughts is fun, and tends to bring out the best in them.
I think we can really get back on track now, as pointed out, the issue at hand is : Gurusnetwork present and future?
From: there...no..there..... Insane since: May 2001
posted 10-24-2007 20:01
quote: Tyberius Prime said:
Ps:
Other inmates, please excuse this diversion from the topic at hand.
sorry about that. I was just trying to make a point and went off topic quite a bit. i was just wanting to make a point that things here go in cycles. everyone comes around every once in a while and think the Asylum is dead. It comes back People have lives and can't post like some of us
posted 10-22-2007 21:33
"meatspace" 
