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argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 02-28-2008 15:57 Edit Quote

I just thought about something, having been called arrogant on a misunderstanding for the.... mind you, 10'000 time around?
What if I came back tomorrow under a new name? Would I still be perceived as arrogant or agressive
the very first time I say something - out of stress, out of God knows what - that is not in the taste of some inmate?

You know WHAT?
I have done it. And all was peachy for months. Until I said I used to be InI - and there goes the witch hunt.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I could change id tomorrow, and NEVER mention again I used to be InI,
and you'd all be sweet and smiling. OR I can be who I am, honest to the whole of you,
and the minute I will say something slightly "non politic", someone is around the corner barking threats.

If I wanted to talk with animals - and thus look down on my forum companions for real, I'd frequent some "petsrus" forum instead. I expect
people to talk instead - hell : let it be my rule of thumb. You have my icq, you have my email, if you want to bark, do it in private, but I will NOT
extend the courtesy of a reply to anyone who :
1) calls me InI.
2) talks vaguely about some past and the bad things I have done.

About this one :
yeah, you probably spread poop on your nasty neighbour's doorstep while you were a kid : I don't think anyone should let you approach poop or a doorstep
any other time in your life - that's basically the main argument of my detractors.


4) in general, makes random assumptions about my lifestyle and anything that should not be assumed - but verified AT THE VERY LEAST.
5) simply sounds like a douche within the few lines a very short post can contain.
6) and any other profound demonstration of the same kind.

Furthermore, if you have valuable advice, please try to make it stand out : I don't read minds - I do what makes sense
according to MY mind, and misunderstandings happen.

(taps fingers waiting for the 50 flaming replies that WILL follow - because after all, I spread poop... ah no, that's the one about a
restrain order regarding all doorsteps in the world).



(Edited by argo navis on 02-28-2008 15:58)

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 02-28-2008 16:47 Edit Quote

Ummm...who cares?

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 02-28-2008 16:54 Edit Quote

[picks quote and uses it out of context] I do

Seriously, I do. Things and tense moments happen to anyone - I just happen
not to be "allowed" to this less I'll be threatened. I just was instructed to "thread carefully"
and other bullcrap. So THE HELL TO IT - I figured "let's move the flames in a thread of it's own,
at least it will avoid spoiling something else".

Guess what? If people appreciate me when I respond like a human being, then that's ALL there is to it -
treating me like anyone else.

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

IP logged posted posted 02-28-2008 17:25 Edit Quote

Hmm I can't say I don't care at all about these things but I've figured that the less I worry and the less I get upset about these things the happier I am. So better word would be that I'm really not very 'passionate' about your or anyone else's mood. And to me this is all there is: moods. With you it seems to be mostly that you aren't getting the support or attention that you expect so you turn arrogant and people usually respond with the same. Maybe I'm wrong who knows ...

Btw WebShaman seems to care at least a little. Why post a reply otherwise.

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 02-28-2008 17:55 Edit Quote

To express the lack of care?

I just do not see the issue, to be honest.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 02-28-2008 18:03 Edit Quote

"To express the lack of care", now that is a beautiful paradox in and of itself

quote:

it seems to be mostly that you aren't getting the support or attention



That is interesting. I understand what you're saying - but it's not the attention.
It's the relevancy of feedback : I think I just phrase my questions badly and end up frustrated.

A good example is the "best of" forum proposal : I know for a fact it makes a forum shine,
users happier, and posts easier to retrieve. But the initiative is sitting still.

With all this in mind, things like "you have deceived everyone of us since your first post" or the likes are beyond my understanding no matter what -
and it's more than time that things like this STOP altogether.

White Hawk
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: zero divided.
Insane since: May 2004

IP logged posted posted 02-28-2008 18:29 Edit Quote

I think that any sort of aggressive or over-defensive behaviour, or needlessly inflammatory responses to critique, opinion, or honest-to-goodness advice would be flagged quite happily by any member that perceives it... but your previous (and persistent) reputation lends a certain provenance. Perhaps it is true that knowledge of your prior identity causes a degree of bias - but that can hardly be helped.

Unfortunately, it is very true to say that familiarity breeds contempt. It is far easier to use sharp words when dealing with a known character than with a stranger.

I must say, regardless of my pathetic attempt at humour under the indicated thread, I could see a bunch of people going out of their way to respond to you - to take an active part in a discourse with you - only to be rebuffed because their responses were not the 'right kind' of responses.

I thought you were rather rude about it - starting a statement with 'don't take this the wrong way' or 'don't take offence' doesn't reduce the impact of the statement. If it is offensive, regardless of your intent, it is quite simply... offensive...

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 02-28-2008 18:47 Edit Quote

Mhyeah. I can see it. It's miles away from a major disruptive outburst, and I think it doesn't justify threats in and of itself - in the same vein,
a "put guy back on track" comment would have done the job.

Furthermore, I want to stress the *human factor* here, I am prone to mistakes or lack of diplomacy when coding things in a hurry
in the middle of the night (btw your joke was funny).

That kind of bias is one of the purposes of a new identity as argo navis : separating not applicable thought bindings,
and they are not applicable, because there is a vast change since back then.

But thought binding aside, forgiveness should really aim for a clean slate - I've apologized once, for everybody to see
and search and dig up and know. There isn't much more I can do - one thing : stating that obnoxious comments are.. well, obnoxious.

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

IP logged posted posted 02-28-2008 19:01 Edit Quote

What is that "best of"?

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 02-28-2008 19:03 Edit Quote

Forums best of proposal

CPrompt
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: there...no..there.....
Insane since: May 2001

IP logged posted posted 02-28-2008 22:10 Edit Quote

actually to tell you the truth, I was thinking that you reminded me a lot of Ini, _Mauro, etc... way before you announced being that person. So...yes.

Later,

C:\

DL-44
Lunatic (VI) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

IP logged posted posted 02-28-2008 23:23 Edit Quote

Hmm. Where is this witch hunt?

I'm afraid you are a bit beyond over reacting, Argo....

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 02-29-2008 01:16 Edit Quote

@Cprompt, that one is SO easy. "See, I would have TOLD you firsthand but..." Actually, I'd tell you the sport results until 2050.
..
But.


As a matter of facts, people in my real world tend to be very suprised and hardly recognize me - and you don't have to take my word,
I know someone around who can witness this.
So you REALLY should make a business of that intuition C:>

This said, wether you recognized me or not, you've been quite nice and welcoming this far, and it is appreciated
- no rampage yet, but a casual difficulty at getting heard and few flames. Could do worse.

I can count around 10 of the insulting posts AND three inmates, off the top of my head, who really have difficulties with me -
the most surprising was the guy with the "you have deceived us since post 1" quote. THAT was low.

I hate flames. Both ways : I don't mind making amend if I go overboard. I mind the flame ignition - it doesn't serve ME
and it doesn't even serve the other party - anger is sometimes necessary, mostly ugly.

Anyhow right now, I am peachy. Tired, stressed out, but feeling good.

So I'll leave it to you to pick a witch, who knows, that could even turn into a fun game.

SleepingWolf
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2006

IP logged posted posted 02-29-2008 05:10 Edit Quote
quote:

argo navis said:

If I wanted to talk with animals - and thus look down on my forum companions for real, I'd frequent some "petsrus" forum instead.



I love talking with animals, what's wrong with that?


Nature & Travel Photography
Main Entrance

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 02-29-2008 12:36 Edit Quote

Look, it was just a matter of time before the "real personality" established itself again.

This is why I simply could not give a damn - it is the "same ol', same ol'" from umpteenth times before.

I suspect that the "big meltdown" is not far off, now. These things normally repeat in a pattern.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 02-29-2008 16:00 Edit Quote
quote:

I suspect



That is my whole point. You don't "suspect", really, for there is no clue to such a meltdown.
You "presuppose". And you do that naturally because the awkward feelings of the past are attached, in your mind
(in a synaptic way I mean, physically attached), to the name InI.

I bet reading the name can easilly lead you to live these awkward feelings again - it's a stimulus in behavioral biology.

You know, that's the big problem with fear, which caused the whole issue of witch hunts in first place :
FEAR is about False Expectations Appearing Real.

As for this thread - it will allow all the anger accumulated against InI, namely the anger accumulated by Tao, to be unleashed
for the best - no compromising other threads, no pollution of worthy discussions - a thread that could be concealed at will, or exposed,
without disrupting anything else around.

Proactively opened when I could sense usually calm inmates prone to attacking - better handle it this way.

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 02-29-2008 16:12 Edit Quote

This thread is clue enough - you have done these types of things before, normally after you have "lashed out" at someone else in another thread.

You are repeating an old cycle.

I am going to ask you some questions :

Do you see any other member doing these types of things? Do you see them posting such posts after a particularly sharp exchange in another thread?

Why do you post these types of threads?

What means could it possibly serve?

What purpose do you see it serving?

Because to be honest, I don't see it serving any purpose at all, that I can make heads or tails of.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles


(Edited by WebShaman on 02-29-2008 16:18)

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 02-29-2008 16:28 Edit Quote

I guess. Quickie.

0) What you called a "pattern" would usually have resulted in ME lashing out at (some guy for some random comment) LIVE in the thread where the accident occured.
Without most people understanding. And THEN extensively overreacting.

1) It's not what happens here and now - although I am willing to deal with the issue that makes me feel bad ONCE and FOR ALL.
It is not what it WAS.

2) Every person have their identitiy and I consider the diversity around here to be worth a fortune. So no I don't see other people posting these threads,
THANK GOD - it means I have a different point of view to share among things.

3) And you and me know down inside that this point of view can bring a lot - as anyone's. That is exactly why you still are reading.

4) During a misunderstanding in the DHTML forum, Tao became agressive to me - in response for what he judged a misbehavior. But in proportions not appropriate.
Feeling the conversation was about to drift, and seeing the rest of the thread was worth of some good DHTML.

...I moved the "sorting out anger" part of it here. In the long run, NOT the short rushes of adrenaline, as I said above,
this will help separate the good DHTML talk from the emotional junk.

Which takes me a patience I have never displayed in the past.
Hope it helps. I REALLY do.

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 02-29-2008 16:54 Edit Quote

In other words, it is about you.

This thread servers your purposes, or what you perceive to be your purposes.

quote:
3) And you and me know down inside that this point of view can bring a lot - as anyone's. That is exactly why you still are reading



No, that is nowhere near why I posted here. You should not assume you know "exactly" why I do anything. You should ask me first. You may assume, and you may have your opinion as to why, of course.

I stated before,

Who cares?

Why is this thread necessary?

That it obviously serves some necessary thing for you, I think you have made obvious.

As you have stated, you feel that you are different than others.

I think that you have established that point already, to the point of exhaustion.

And that, again, repeats an old cycle.

In other words, this is just a repeat of things that have happened before.

I am going to quit this thread now, because I do not see any reason for me to continue posting in it. That, as well, serves no purpose.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 02-29-2008 17:04 Edit Quote

There is no way not to communicate, and an emotional response says a lot :
why do you need to conceal the obvious fact you have some interest
in this talk? How do you think it would hinder you to admit to it?

Now, a brilliant contradiction :

quote:

You should not assume you know "exactly" why I do anything.


So why do you do this to me?
And why do you do this all the time to me?
Why should I welcome something you do not tolerate for yourself?
And why should I refrain from telling you, just like you do, that it disturbs me?

A very concrete example :

quote:

As you have stated, you feel that you are different than others.



I have actually stated the OPPOSITE : I have just said that EVERYONE have differences and that it is the point where those meet
that is interesting.

quote:

Every person have their identitiy and I consider the diversity around here to be worth a fortune.



See? Everyone is unique, although forged on a common, human model - I post about the things of interest to ME is all I said above.
Why skewing the meaning or lending me motives instead of ASKING? And when asking, why rejecting the answers as anything but
what they are? On a CONSISTANT basis.

And I could tell you why - just as I can tell you you love to read.

...As for this thread : it does serve the community. Tao is on the verge of a major lash out at me - he announced it,
announced that back home he would adress my points. Ask yourself if keeping that talk mixed with DHTML talk is the best possible outcome.
Ponder this for a minute : then feel free to move this thread, but if I have to face agressions and accusations, I just want
to welcome them in a thread of their own - instead of an archived thread going "Cool.... DHTML.... Wow... Javascript.... <swear words>"



(Edited by argo navis on 02-29-2008 17:04)

(Edited by argo navis on 02-29-2008 17:06)

DL-44
Lunatic (VI) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

IP logged posted posted 02-29-2008 21:20 Edit Quote

What happened in the other thread was very simple, Argo - you received feedback that you had a problem with, and you were a dick about it.
Someone called you on it. And they did it in a pretty low-key and reasonable manner.

That should be about the end of it. You can't tell people that they can't remember things you've done in the past...that's just not realistic, no matter how much you've dealt with yourself and your past.

But anyway, the comments that happened in the other thread should have no need to spill over any further, and this horse was beat to death many posts ago in this one

IMHO, FWIW

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

IP logged posted posted 02-29-2008 23:01 Edit Quote

Will this act ever get old for you?

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

IP logged posted posted 02-29-2008 23:32 Edit Quote

Where's Blaise?
Be Happy People! Stop fighting.

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 02-29-2008 23:50 Edit Quote

<warning - few swear words and lots of caffeinated and politically incorrect humor ahead>

Hey, from a male whore to another, few facts : poi is getting on my nerves, period - I appreciate his enthusiasm. I appreciate his work. I don't share all of his views
and having him hammer them on me all the time is a PAIN IN THE REAR. Too much is too much, at times he just feels like that kindergarten teacher - who was so willing
to be nice when telling me how to do or not do this or that - that I am actually RELIEVED, even at the risk of losing his sympathy, not to hear him around me anymore.

Knee-jerk reaction. Yes. A prick on that one? Maybe. Human after all.

But tying this to disruptive outbursts and my past behavior?
It's exactly like saying to the recovering heroin addict - "hey guy, you'll never give it up, you can't change. What about suicide right here and right now?"

If some otherwise cool guys are lurking around the corner with anger down their system, then honestly : I DON'T SEE HOW THEIR NURTURING NEGATIVITY
PRE-EMPTIVELY WILL BENEFIT ANYONE AND I DON'T SEE WAYS I WILL AVOID HARSH REACTIONS, I am not made of stone.

So yes it's human as well not to forget.
To dwell back again and again, on the other hand, is silly at best, weak, intolerant, and plain WRONG.
Tthere comes a time a man with the appropriate apparel and a brain should DRAW THE LINE.
If Tao needs to adress the points he raised over there, then SO BE IT BUT LET IT HAPPEN IN A DEDICATED SPACE for a change.

...

As an even simpler fact, without further justification - what's with the Asylum being seemingly full of pantsies sending flowers to each other?
What's this become? A trendy gay venue? As I was saying : I am HUMAN.
If I have an angry reaction at someone and turn into a prick for a second, then SO BE IT TOO - and I am proved deeply wrong, guess what? I WILL
make amend or ask for forgiveness - as I did a long time ago about each point Tao raised over there.

Swear words no more, long posts no more, personal stuff even less (this one I understand, but some personal stories do convey key informations), and do NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT A POST EDIT.
Plus as far as I AM CONCERNED, the least sign of anger or discomfort and BAM - I am faced with the "you did put poop on your neighbour's doorstep 20 years ago"
mentality again.

On a HUMOROUS NOTE (warning, the following sentences will contain vulgarity, which, by means of irony, is absolutely not intended as an insult but rather a form
of funny protest against excessive political correctness and it's constipating effect on free minds - and a form of hat tip to those same free minds as well) :

FUCK IT The holy moral code? I recommend shoving it right next to where the bible and any other dogma based document should be.


...Next time I am coding on a deadline at 1h in the morning and not too friendly towards some comment,
count on me to send my fellow inmates a perfumed note and a hello kitty peluche asking them to politely please maybe avoid hammering the hell out of me.
And PLEASE REMIND ME of exactly all the bad actions I have done for the past 29 years every single time I say something
imperfect. After that, PLEASE feel free to threaten me about my threading pace or size - and count on the effect to be impressive.
And do NEVER EXPECT any negative reaction on my side - instead I'll get kinky with you as your personal sex toy, but only if you beat me.

Not.



Jestah : the day you get yourself a brain. Be nice and have someone write a letter to Santa, who knows?

(Edited by argo navis on 02-29-2008 23:52)

Arthurio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: cell 3736
Insane since: Jul 2003

IP logged posted posted 03-01-2008 00:22 Edit Quote

I feel a little sad and disappointed now ...
Makes me think ... who else is 'getting on your nerves'? ... and whether you really expect answers, opinions and help when you ask for them ...

Bash someone and another person gets offended ... I guess it's called empathy. I guess I now understand what's going on here.

argo navis
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Switzerland
Insane since: Jul 2007

IP logged posted posted 03-01-2008 00:41 Edit Quote

Sigh. And say I am in a good mood for real.

Jestah is the only one I really dislike because he has intolerance and provocation in his system and is hell bent on boasting his ego this way
- I've never known him to be any different, and he's relatively artful at debating - but I have yet to see him ACT constructively, I don't think he will :
I think his motives truely are negative as a whole, making him, in my eyes, the worst a person can be - a smiling face with hatred inside.

I am the opposite most of my time : a fake mad face with kindness inside.

Anyone else who brings up the past or throws threats make me feel bad for 5 seconds - and that's IT.
I judge people based on repeated actions, never on words specifically because I like to give the benefit of doubt to each and every person I meet.

Guess what? I haven't received the same benefit of doubt in ages and it's exhausting.

I truely admire : Arthurio, DL, Webshaman, Suho, and almost all other posters at the Asylum and in this very thread regardless of a 5 minutes argument.
I think all these people are brilliant in an area or another, and prone to mistakes in an area or another. It all makes communication
twice more frustrating when I feel like this down inside, and, by communicating like a robot at times, convey arrogance instead of genuine admiration and simpathy.

YES you understand that people here DO keep negative memories and don't want to let them go.
And what you call empathy is, instead, SYMPATHY : taking other people's situations so deep at heart it reaches you.
Empathy is not about that : it is about understanding while keeping your feed grounded in your reality.

This whole dynamic fuels a never ending cycle, and based on my experience, which does include staying cold as stone
when dealing with Israeli army - for real - there are two ways to stop this cycle.

Either someone comes to Lausanne and shoots me in the head.
Or EVERYBODY DECIDES DOWN INSIDE THAT THEY'LL CUT ME SOME SLACK FOR REAL. I mean, FOR REAL : no bringing up past issues
past the point I have made amend, no bringing up past issues in an insulting way, no threats, NONE of this.

And it really is your pick : as I said I am human and have natural limits - wether I dealt with past difficulties or not and am changed or not.

(Edited by argo navis on 03-01-2008 00:41)

DL-44
Lunatic (VI) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

IP logged posted posted 03-01-2008 05:52 Edit Quote
quote:

argo navis said:

Anyone else who brings up the past or throws threats make me feel bad for 5 seconds - and that's IT.


Ok. 5 seconds are up.

take the positive you have learned and walk away from this thread. drop it - truly - and you will be all the better for it.



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