Topic: Question about Europe (Page 1 of 1) Pages that link to <a href="http://ozoneasylum.com/backlink?for=30269" title="Pages that link to Topic: Question about Europe (Page 1 of 1)" rel="nofollow" >Topic: Question about Europe <span class="small">(Page 1 of 1)</span>\

 
lallous
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Lebanon
Insane since: May 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-15-2008 06:50 Edit Quote

Hi guys,

I am comparing salaries, living expenses, saving money, ... in different countries.

Say you live with your parents and get paid 1500 EUR net, you live in (1) France, (2) Germany, (3) Belgium.
How would you live with that? is that paycheck enough in each of these countries?

p.s: you live in average cities, not the capitals.

--
Regards,
Elias

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-15-2008 09:28 Edit Quote

I live in Germany, so I will take the question from there for this country.

You say 1500 Euros, netto. That is not a bad salary (though it is not anywhere near high). Depending on where you plan to live in Germany, that could be good, or not so good.

I live up on the North Coast of Germany, a relatively poor region, so 1500 Euros netto is a pretty good income, and you should do fine (you will have to be able to manage your money, but you should be able to manage). In any of the major cities, however, you will be struggling with that amount IMHO. Rent is high, and the cost of living in Germany is astronomical.

As long as you plan on living in more rural areas, 1500 netto should be ok. You will be able to live, sometimes a bit comfortably (if you manage your money well), but nowhere near "over the top".

Me and my wife bring in double that, and we manage to save a bit of money here and there. We rent, have three children, (one car) and it is still often a struggle to make ends meet. We do not have any borrowed money (credit, loans) that we have to pay back, but the "average" cost of living in Germany is high, and getting worse. In Germany, one needs to be pretty well insured for a number of things, and that costs alot of money. To that, comes the very high energy prices, as well as the rent. We got pretty lucky with the rent - we are "only" paying 500 Euros a month for half of a double house (with yard). That is not including energy and additional costs.

I hope that helps.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 05-15-2008 09:58 Edit Quote

lallous: define live "with your parents". What are you expenses and so on.

Back in France, I used to live on my own in a ~30.000 people city, 60 km away from Paris, and was working in Paris. A net salary of 1.500 EUR would have been quite ok. Actually, I started a bit over that : with a 55 sqm flat for 500 a month, about 120 of commuting expenses, no car ( never really needed one, nearby there was grocery stores, bakeries, a market, the train station, etc ... and a few big malls a bit further ). I never really paid attention to my bank account.

WebShaman:

quote:
Rent is high, and the cost of living in Germany is astronomical.

Really ? Don't come to Norway, especially Oslo.

Blaise
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: London
Insane since: Jun 2003

IP logged posted posted 05-15-2008 11:40 Edit Quote

And don't even think about London, you pay through the teeth to live in a squat

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-15-2008 12:13 Edit Quote
quote:
Really ? Don't come to Norway, especially Oslo.



I don't plan to!

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 05-15-2008 13:04 Edit Quote

I did quite ok for my current flat : 45 sqm for ~ 1,000 EUR in (one of) the nice area on the East side, 10-15 minutes walking distance from work and the city center. A friend of mine pays ~ 1,200 for about the same size on the West side, nicer area , but that's more like 20+ minutes walking distance from work. Buying is a LOT more expensive. It certainly is worth it when you re-sell, but I'm sure that's worth the hassle if you don't plan to stay more than 5-10 years around.

Oh, and to buy, and some times also to rent, it's not up to the first firm offer, but to who makes the highest offer with the agency calling every one still interested to match/raise the highest offer. And the viewing of the flats/houses are all scheduled in one or two ~2 hours sessions, so it's not rare to end up with 20+ people visiting and applying for a flat at the same type. Dunno if that's common in other countries, but it's definitely not as "aggressive" in France.



(Edited by poi on 05-15-2008 13:25)

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-15-2008 14:11 Edit Quote

Are we talking about weekly, fortnightly, monthly or yearly here?


Justice 4 Pat Richard

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Norway
Insane since: Jun 2002

IP logged posted posted 05-15-2008 15:01 Edit Quote

monthly.

lallous
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Lebanon
Insane since: May 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-15-2008 16:38 Edit Quote

Hi,


Thanks for your answers, they help a bit.

poi: living with parents or rent being taken care of. So you still have to pay for food, energy, etc.

WS: what are the things you need to have insured? I don't know about Europe in general, but doesn't the tax you pay cover having free medication, and pension later on?
what other advantages you take from paying the taxes?

Anyone Belgium?

Thanks.

Blacknight
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: INFRONT OF MY PC
Insane since: Dec 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-15-2008 21:54 Edit Quote

Taxes in Europe aren't only spent on "free" Medicin and Pension, it is also spent on homeless jobless(so if YOU loose your job you get money) ect. ohh and the EU ^^
but you need other insurances like an accident incuranse which is quite helpful if something happens. And you need a home insurance incase something happens in your home(a window brakes:insurance pays) car insurances ...and many more (all appart from car insurance is optional)
And the Public health insurance only pays for basics, you still have to pay a fee (in %) if you need medicine or health care.

This is for Austria but it is more or less the same in all of europe

i hope i could help you a little

ps: http://europa.eu/index_en.htm here you will find more details on more or less all of your questions concerning Europe

(Edited by Blacknight on 05-15-2008 21:56)

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-15-2008 22:28 Edit Quote
quote:
WS: what are the things you need to have insured? I don't know about Europe in general, but doesn't the tax you pay cover having free medication, and pension later on?



Car Insurance, Legal Insurance (believe me, in Germany this is a MUST! Germans are more legal happy than Americans!), Half-Pflicht (not sure what that is in english, but it covers damages when you or a child of yours breaks something, for example, in someone elses home, etc), insurance for being injured...

All of these things are not covered by taxes.

Also, even though the medical system in Germany is covered by taxes, it is not complete coverage! That has changed in Germany. Everything from medication to special types of treatments can cost extra.

As for Pension, well, that has become a running joke in Germany now. It used to be great, but recently, it went down the tubes with no end in sight.

Most Germans now applying for their Pensions after putting in 50+ years of work are ending up having to apply for social benefits and help just to make ends meet. It is a sad thing.

My wife's parents are a good example of this. He was diagnosed with prostate cancer two years ago (and that was caused by a really incompetant doctor...the whole story is a sickening mess, and it is turning into a living nightmare) - he was operated on, and they fucked that up, and introduced a hole from his bladder into his intestinal tract, and refused to "find it" although he was pissing food that he had eaten. It took a year of examinations, blah blah blah and switching multiple doctors, hospitals, experts, etc before they finally found it (wow, amazing what a CAT scan can find, isn't it? God damned incompetant fools!).

But he got progressively worse, and applied for early retirement. As only he had worked (although his entire life), he got a pitance for Pension. 600 Euros a month for them BOTH to live on! And he had earned well!

Thankfully, he had invested privately well, and had paid off the house that they live in, AND had a respectable savings (400,000 euros). Otherwise, he would be having to apply for social benefits as well!

He was diagnosed with spreading cancer, and underwent a battery of tests, etc...and was scheduled for chemotherapy...only for the docs to find out that he has hepatitis! (he was delivered to the hospital with an ambulance because he had collapsed!). He does not have spreading cancer!

So anybody trying to tell me that the German medical system has a clue as to what in the FUCK they are doing, I have the evidence that they do not (more if one wants to hear...like how I sued the medical system for cutting a huge fucking hole in my neck while removing a small skin problem because the fucking operating table collapsed during my operation!)

I could go on and on...my wife works in a Gynacologists office.

Basically, the German medical system is bankrupt, and is "running on empty" in a huge way. I personally think that it is as bad or worse than the Pension system - and probably so FUBARed that the German Government has no idea on how to fix it (let alone impliment the will to do so!).

Ok, end of rant.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

reisio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Florida
Insane since: Mar 2005

IP logged posted posted 05-15-2008 22:53 Edit Quote

Communes, baby.

Blacknight
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: INFRONT OF MY PC
Insane since: Dec 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-15-2008 23:23 Edit Quote

And Germany is not the only country with these problems. all of yourope is facing the same ..so you want to have some money to put in to your pillow/sock/pants/Pig/you name it

liorean
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Umeå, Sweden
Insane since: Sep 2004

IP logged posted posted 05-16-2008 02:35 Edit Quote

All of the developed world is. It's a case of the workforce paying for the young, the old, the sick and the criminal. If the size of the workforce in relation to those groups is reduced, it's a given that the quality of the services given is also reduced. People today tend to stay in education longer and live longer past their pensions than they did yesterday...

--
var Liorean = {
abode: "http://web-graphics.com/",
profile: "http://codingforums.com/member.php?u=5798"};

tcqhdl
Obsessive-Compulsive (I) Inmate

From: Ph
Insane since: May 2008

IP logged posted posted 05-16-2008 05:57 Edit Quote

you might want to fuck the capitals and try the suburbs. more interesting to get around. there's buses at stake but there'll be plenty of food to keep you company while you get around.

Gawd Jesus Christ Lord have mercy on mi.

DmS
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Sthlm, Sweden
Insane since: Oct 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-16-2008 12:00 Edit Quote

@Webshaman
I hear you!

Speaking on Sweden here:
While individuals within the medical system works their heart out for a pathetic excuse for a salary the whole system as such is degrading due to an immensly overbloated bueroucratic overhead which eats resources as a starved pack of hyenas. There are private alternatives as well, but forget about those if you don't have a private insurance.

So is the governmental pension plans, a couple of years back "someone" got the brilliant idea that "we" should move from maintaining the pension funds in a secure, slowly growing fashion to putting the individual "packages" in the stock market and giving the responsability to the individual to maintain their own coming pension.
All in the name of freedom of choice... Yeah... As if everyone and their uncle has a friggin clue on how to make mony grow in the stock market...

To make a potential long rant short:
Lunch 7-10 euros, dinner at resturant (w/o alcohol) 15-30 euros per course, beer at local pub 4-5 euros, a music CD 20 euros, DVD 20 euros, a bottle of mid range wine at "systembolaget" (the only legal place to buy alcohol) 7-12 euros. A medium sized used car say 10 years old: 4000 -> euros + insurance (differs insanely, but a guess is about 50 euros/month). Cab fare, appr 15 kilometers = around 30-40 euros, public transportation in stockholm, 70 euros for 30 days.

Rough average salary for a dumbed down desk jockey: around 2000-3000 euro/month before 35% tax.
Then you need to save for all those wonderful unforseen things as well
There ya go
/Dan

*/ I'm a ginio.....genios......genu......smart person! /*

{cell 260} I have no site due to no free time.
-{ Sleep: A common physical disorder that manifests itself as the level of blood in the caffeine circulation exeeds 20% }-

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-16-2008 14:41 Edit Quote

Everything I read here just makes me feel lucky to live in Australia. I suggest you all move to Melbourne, immediately.


Justice 4 Pat Richard

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 05-16-2008 18:36 Edit Quote
quote:

Skaarjj said:

Everything I read here just makes me feel lucky to live in Australia. I suggest you all move to Melbourne, immediately.Justice 4 Pat Richard



Since I lived in Adelaide (well, near it ) for 3 1/2 years, I can only echo those sentiments.

*sigh*

Australians have good reason to be proud of their country - the formal apology from the Government to the Aborigines only strengthens this, in my view.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles


(Edited by WebShaman on 05-16-2008 18:37)

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

IP logged posted posted 05-17-2008 12:05 Edit Quote

It only took us twelve years and a new government to accomplish it.


Justice 4 Pat Richard



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