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Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 08-24-2009 22:37 Edit Quote

The more I look the more examples of left and right handedness I find in nature. These two Hibiscus flowers are from the same bush. Notice how the petals of one fold clockwise and the other counter clockwise. Snail shells also spiral in either direction as do galaxies.



WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 08-24-2009 22:55 Edit Quote

Great stuff Tao.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 08-25-2009 16:32 Edit Quote

Thanks WS, I find this subject fascinating.

As we are now in the season of mists and mellow fruitfulness, a lot of the flowers I remember having both left and right handedness have finished blooming, or blooming finished, depending on ones mood.
I did however manage to photograph some of the last Lavatera flowers in our garden and luckily there was an example of both.




I have also been poking around the garden looking for examples of the swirls in snails shells, but so far have found none. I'll keep looking of course but I think I'll desist from revealing the true nature of my endeavours to passers by who enquire if I've "found it yet" or "still weeding". The one elderly lady and gentleman whom I did tell, looked like they thought I was a suitable candidate for a care in the community order.

reisio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Florida
Insane since: Mar 2005

IP logged posted posted 08-25-2009 16:51 Edit Quote

I have trouble seeing a preferred direction in something radially symmetrical. Nevermind handedness in something without hands. It's still interesting, just not as much as what I though the thread would be about (whole species [with hands] clearly preferring one side).

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 08-25-2009 18:51 Edit Quote

I see what you mean reisio. I was struggling to find an apt title for the thread and I was not really happy with the one I chose, but could think of no better alternative in the time I gave myself. Sorry to slightly deflate your expectations. If I discover any species, with hands, preferring one side to the other you can be sure I'll photograph them and post the results here asap.

Does this make it any clearer for the "hard of eye".



WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 08-25-2009 21:44 Edit Quote

I love this stuff, Tao!

It is totally fascinating!

I wonder what it truly has to do with the 3D world we live in, and WHY this sort of thing has evolved?

What sort of advantages and disadvantages does right and left "handiness", for lack of a better word, bring?

And brilliant photography, btw.

I can really see your belief and philosophy shining through your photos.

Brilliant. Keep it up.

Stuff like this is why the Ozone Asylum got created.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

reisio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Florida
Insane since: Mar 2005

IP logged posted posted 08-25-2009 22:49 Edit Quote

Can you draw faces on them? Or hands?

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 08-26-2009 01:30 Edit Quote

Now that's just crazy talk.....

NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

IP logged posted posted 08-26-2009 01:45 Edit Quote

This is just a maybe but I think what you might be getting at has something to do with the Golden Mean/Golden Number.

http://goldennumber.net/nature.htm

And of course inmate Steve has this cool bit of animation on his front page.

http://www.thegoldenmean.com/

I first became aware of the Golden Mean at a science fair. One of the entrants, a young girl of about 10, had gathered numerous plant examples of the GM. I thought the GM was most obvious is pine cones or similar and of course is the sea shells.

How this might affect the clockwise anti-clock bit.... well I'm not really sure but I'd say you're certainly in the realm of the GM.

___________________________________________________________________________
“Privatize the Profits - Socialize the Losses.” Randi Rhodes

(Edited by NoJive on 08-26-2009 01:55)

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 08-26-2009 02:00 Edit Quote

WebShaman I too believe this "handedness" stuff is very deep rooted indeed. Consider the DNA spiral, I have seen images of both clockwise and anti-clockwise DNA google it Most of the imagery has been anti-clockwise, but I'm not sure at this stage if that is due to the artists preference or actuality.

I've mentioned Galaxy Zoo before in these lovely orange corridors. I love visiting the site and get a real buzz from helping to classify galaxies. It turns out that there are more anti-clockwise galaxies than clockwise, see here!. Does this have any light to shed on why there isnmore matter than anti-matter in the observable universe, when according to most physicists there should be equal amounts? Maybe not, but it is one of those things that intrigue me.

I find it gorgeous the way a the path of wondering why a snails shell is so shaped can lead one to pondering the nature of the universe.

(Edited by Tao on 08-26-2009 02:07)

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 08-26-2009 02:01 Edit Quote

Nice one, Tao!

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 08-26-2009 02:06 Edit Quote

Ah NoJive you posted as I was typing.

I was thinking of Steve's site too and the effect of the Golden Mean. I've been taking photos of Sunflower heads to try to illustrate this spiral but none of the photos have been good enough to illustrate this mathematical equation in nature.

One thing I am sure of, if something happens in nature there is usually a very good reason for it.

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 08-26-2009 02:15 Edit Quote

So did the Asylum's awesome spam slayer WebShaman...
Thanks for condemning these nasty b*st*rds to squid fodder.

reisio
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Florida
Insane since: Mar 2005

IP logged posted posted 08-26-2009 08:54 Edit Quote

That's what I'm talking about. Now which of those petally hands does "he" prefer?

For the second one, doesn't it bloom in more of a clockwise manner (from the POV of the flower)?

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 08-26-2009 12:37 Edit Quote

Petal-face has two left petally hands. The one on the viewers right has the left petally thumb at the top and conversely the petally hand on the viewers left has a petally thumb at the bottom.
Evolutionarily speaking this has been a disadvantage to our flower-faced friend as I have it on good authority that he is right-handed

As for the POV of the flower, scientific empirical study has shown out of 2,000 flower-faces surveyed, (Study included hand cream, plasma TV's, liposuction, toiletries and illegal downloading) none, expressed a particular point of view on anything. " Petally people are very laid-back easy-going kind of characters" said a spokesperson.




[doh]spellage[/doh]

(Edited by Tao on 08-26-2009 12:39)

WebShaman
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: The Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

IP logged posted posted 08-27-2009 01:45 Edit Quote

I officially nominate this thread for "Ozone Thread of the Year"

Way to go, Tao!

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

Tao
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Pool Of Life
Insane since: Nov 2003

IP logged posted posted 08-30-2009 01:33 Edit Quote

Here is another word I had not come upon before that well describes "handedness". It also opens up yet another fascinating avenue of thought. Chirality

quote:

Aspartame is a sweetening agent that is more than a hundred times sweeter than sucrose. And yet, the mirror image molecule is bitter. "(S)-carvone possesses the odor perception of caraway while [the mirror image molecule] (R)-carvone has a spearmint odor number2."

These examples are just the tip of the iceberg. DNA, proteins, amino acids, sugars are all chiral. Mirror image amino acids are called L- and D-aminoacids. Human proteins are exclusively built from L-aminoacids. The origin of this fundamental dissymmetry is still mysterious. When interacting, molecules recognize each other just as your right hand distinguishes another right hand from a left when you shake hands. This is why mirror image molecules, like mirror image Thalidomides, so often have radically different fates in our bodies



flashfango
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Oct 2010

IP logged posted posted 10-28-2010 07:52 Edit Quote

it is interesting... the Hibiscus flowers are beautiful...

edit tp: spam removed

(Edited by Tyberius Prime on 10-28-2010 17:23)

whatsupdoc
Obsessive-Compulsive (I) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Nov 2010

IP logged posted posted 11-15-2010 04:01 Edit Quote

this is precisely why i like photography.
it lets us get a closer picture of nature. it makes us think about stuff, art and philosophy are always inter related.
coming from a religious man 'Hand of God at Work'

sophielucky
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Miami
Insane since: Nov 2010

IP logged posted posted 11-26-2010 08:51 Edit Quote

So creative and interesting. I like the pictures above.



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