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norm
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: [s]underwater[/s] under-snow in Juneau
Insane since: Sep 2002

posted posted 06-06-2003 06:11

I have a senior business partner who is trying to steer me towards using Frontpage. She teaches the occasional FrontPage class at her local college , so she actually likes it. I'm not even going to try and convince her what a limited, code mangling, piece of crap program FrontPage is, (should I tell you how I really feel about it?) I just need a way to bow out gracefully.

It's bad enough that I'll have to do all serverside code in .Net, I refuse to let Microsoft f*ck up my clientside code....

My only idea so far is to refuse due to my 'quirkyness', she knows I was the only kid in school who refused to play Pac-Man and that I haven't had a TV in 10 years.

I could sure use some backup reasons... Help Please!!!!

Wolfen
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Minnesota
Insane since: Jan 2001

posted posted 06-06-2003 07:01

How about mentioning DreamWeaver... or Max's HTML Beauty... easy to use, straight foward in HTML programming, Does well with both browsers. Does not need FP plugins. All you need is a good bedrock of HTML knowledge, CSS or Javascript. that is not much more than what one needs to know about frontpage. And you could impress her with her computer skills.

Slime
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: Massachusetts, USA
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 06-06-2003 08:02

1. FrontPage creates unclean code which is hard to edit.
2. FrontPage creates code that does not reliably work in non-IE browsers.
3. FrontPage creates web pages that do not adhere to web standards.
4. FrontPage creates web pages which are inaccessable to people with disabilities.
5. FrontPage creates web pages which do not rank well in search engines, due to its non-standard code.
6. FrontPage creates web pages which are not made to be presentable in any device other than a computer screen (such as a PDA, cell phone, etc)
7. FrontPage, like any other WYSIWYG, starts with assumptions about the web page that you want to create. This stifles creativity and taints the design with the WYSIWYG look.

OK, that was a little redundant, but should give you some arguments.

eyezaer
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: the Psychiatric Ward
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 06-06-2003 08:08

you could explain how all the extra wizz bang features slow you down, and how much more efficiently you can wield note pad and copy and paste... and it wouldent hurt to add something like "I will quite my job long before I touch FP." Let her know how you feel.

Don't try to convince here... don't say it as fact, say it as your own opinion.

I mean, try not to make her defensive against it. Just explain that you can not deal with it and you never will deal with it.



[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 06-06-2003).]

viol
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Charles River
Insane since: May 2002

posted posted 06-06-2003 08:56

Sometimes I use FP just as a text editor for some html files and I like it as such.
But it is not my text editor of choice. This is EditPlus.
Also, FP as an uploader sucks.
And don't even try to create code with its WYSIWYG features. Do it manually.
But actually sometimes it is pretty helpful.
And it's not as cpu-demanding as Dreamweaver MX, specially for an outdated computer like mine (P3-733).

Petskull
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: 127 Halcyon Road, Marenia, Atlantis
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 06-06-2003 14:22

viol- I'm working on it..

*Classified*

CPrompt
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: there...no..there.....
Insane since: May 2001

posted posted 06-06-2003 16:38

I would just give her the facts on what happens with FrontPage code. For someone to go in and do a simple edit with FrontPage code is just a mess. It makes it really hard for someone to go into the code and adjust one simple thing.

Also, servers have to support FrontPage extensions. Now, a lot of them do but if she didn't want to worry about having that one thing to check on, that may be one way if she needed to switch servers in the future.

Have to look at the long road in situations like these. It may be easy now,but what about in the future?

Later,

C:\


~Binary is best~

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

posted posted 06-06-2003 17:18

I would agree with Izzy and just offer an opinion. You could also let her know that you're unfamilar with FrontPage but work very well with another editor, say Dreamweaver. That way she'd be forced to train you to use FP, which she probably doesn't want to do.

Jestah

Yuri21
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Feb 2003

posted posted 06-06-2003 17:24

Actually, telling her that you are unfamiliar with FP might not deter her from training you.

So, just tell her that you don't feel at ease with using FP 'cos if you get used to it, you might lose your knowledge of how to do website coding and then tell her that if that happens, she will have 1 less person working on that stuff and more expenses to cover since she might have to hire someone to do that. :P

I am asexual, neither male nor female.

norm
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: [s]underwater[/s] under-snow in Juneau
Insane since: Sep 2002

posted posted 06-06-2003 17:28

Thanks for the Suggestions everyone!

I'm going to try them all. And as a last resort there is always crying and stomping my feet.....

tikigod
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: outside Augusta National
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted posted 06-06-2003 18:46

Tell her how design and development companies, like the one I work for, will bill you 20-30% more to migrate the content of a site created in Frontpage to a new design. Or that it will cost you this much more in labor after you figure out that using it was a dumb idea.

Rinswind 2th
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Den Haag: The Royal Residence
Insane since: Jul 2000

posted posted 06-06-2003 19:31

We had this question before thus: :FAQ::Why you should not use frontpage Also there is this:
html editors

__________________________________________
"Art has to be forgotten. Beauty must be realized."
Piet Mondriaan

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 06-06-2003 19:32

We do have an FAQ on this:

:FAQ: Why you shouldn't use FrontPage

I've updated it.

[edit: Coooooooooooooooo Beaten to the draw by Rinswind ]

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Rinswind 2th
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Den Haag: The Royal Residence
Insane since: Jul 2000

posted posted 06-06-2003 19:33

emp's you are fast...


__________________________________________
"Art has to be forgotten. Beauty must be realized."
Piet Mondriaan

Sanzen
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Raleigh, NC
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 06-06-2003 22:16

i'd shit on frontpage.... but that'd be a waste of perfectly good shit.

mob68com
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Born in Dublin, Ireland .:. now living in the US
Insane since: May 2003

posted posted 06-10-2003 04:22

I used to use f**kpage, I mean frontpage all the time, but found it limiting in so many ways that I decided to give Dreamweaver a crack. I spent the best part of a week screaming at it until I finally realized that is was so superior to FP that I uninstalled it and found managing sites was so much easier with DW. Today was a perfect example of an enctounter of the FP kind. A friend of mine asked me to stop by and show her how to figure out a DHTML menu that wasn't sitting where it was supposed to. After finally moving all her files over to DW, It took me an hour just figure out what FP had done to the files themselves, what a f**kin mess. I finally got the menu to sit where she needed it to by using the margin settings, and using the wonderful table properties available in DW. I have been trying to get me friend to make the move to DW, I think I might have finally made it happen today.

Good luck mate.


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