Topic awaiting preservation: More scary stuff to look faorward to... (Page 1 of 2)

Can this be real? (the part regarding Microsofts future plans)
http://kimber-ja.demon.co.uk/Docs/palladium.txt



[This message has been edited by Xpirex (edited 07-24-2003).]

Yep. Palladium's gonna be a bitch.

I've resolved that Win2000 is the last OS I'll be using from Micro$oft.
Any Linux geeks in here care to comment?

Ack! VSBOD!!

And I second ozphactor's sentiments. I have no idea what the fuck Microsoft is thinking but they look like they're going to be making the same mistakes AOL just made and start losing customers by the assload*.


*assload (ass-load) n. - lit. the amount of weight an ass can carry. The total amount varies but is reputed to be quite a large amount.

Xpirex: I started a thread on Paladium last year but I really don't think it is going to sink in until it is here and we are all screwed.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I refuse to be screwed!

I remember when people used to joke about Micro$oft's schemes of "global domination". I think we can safely say that this no longer qualifies as a joke. It's dead real and it's coming to a computer near you.

[EDIT: Feel free to sign some >petitions< while you're at it. It won't help shit, but it feels good to have some backing.]



[This message has been edited by ozphactor (edited 07-24-2003).]

[This message has been edited by ozphactor (edited 07-24-2003).]

Actually, the scary thing is that Microsoft is being a little reluctant to release all of this information. Instead, they are hailing Longhorn (What Palladium runs under) as a security revolution, so the majority of the public will run to their local Fry's and buy it.

I use XP pro right now, 2000 pro before that, and if Longhorn actually goes through, Linux next. (Although I'd still run XP or 2000 for my PS and Painter.)

--

(EDIT: Oh yes, you might want to look up the Fritz chip. Even scarier.)

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 07-24-2003).]

*Just one more reason why I love my old mac...*

I knew that Microsoft was in league with the forces of Hell! I knew it!!!

I thought that I hated XP but after seeing this it makes XP looks as attractive as 2000.

Here is the previous discussion:
www.ozoneasylum.com/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20020930-1-004894.html
www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum1/HTML/007220.html

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

It sounds a little too far fetched to me, I think there's some huge exagerations in there. It's basically saying that there's going to be supporting of monopolies, Microsoft have already been spanked for this, and I don't see how it'll happen again.

Anyway, didn't they say that all this would happen with windows 95?

Blaise

There's no way that this would *ever* happen.

#1: If everything in that article is infact true, who the FUCK in their right mind would pay money to be jerked around like that?
#2: Some if not most of the things the article says M$ plans to do have to be illegal. I mean, come on - M$ could potential read the contents of my computer and DELETE whatever they deem "inappropriate" ? I don't fucking think so...

I just don't buy it.

quote:

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If everything in that article is infact true, who the FUCK in their right mind would pay money to be jerked around like that

---

The ones who don't know any better ( = most of the world). And the ones who don't think such things could be true, or even scarier, the ones who think "they wouldn't do something like that!"

And it doesn't help that Micro$oft is promoting this as a "security" feature.

Huh.

Secure for who? The customer, or MS?

I wouldn't be surprised if they make this a gradual thing. Very very gradual. But there's gotta be some major problems with all this...

#1 What the fuck are they gonna do when 50% of the internet uses Pre/non-Palladium stuff and 50% does? The internet would be effectively divided in half and all hell would be breaking loose, unless they have a temporary disable plan going.

#2 Hackers / Crackers etc are gonna have a field day, I don't care how good MS thinks they're code etc is, when 80% of the hackers in the world could be devoted to breaking they're code so that they can use pirated software and mp3s, or whatever.

#3 MS has gotten busted once for monopoly stuff, this is going farther than they were going before.

#4 Wouldn't it be illegal to do that stuff like making your documents invalid if you in fact own the data within, no matter if the format your data is in is not yours? Okay, that was an idiotic statement, but I don't see how I could say it another way, heh. I'm not even going to get into that forcing people to update crap, either. I can see this stuff happening for mp3's maybe, but when they hit applications and file formats, I'll go find Bill himself and take a piss on him.

#5 How the hell would they tag all this stuff? I don't even wanna get into how many different documents, programs, versions, updates, web pages, and files in general there are on the net. It's unthinkable that they could tag every single file generated to lock them down when they please. And people could quite easily do a copy/paste and add an extra "space" at the end of the document, repeatedely, making other variations etc to confuse the tag stuff.

All sounds a bit radical and extreme doesn't it? But the theoeretical structure of these plans indicate these people are not joking. It seems to have been thought out very thoroughly. God nothing suprises me anymore but this stuff is pretty mad. If it happens then I for one will abandon the whole system... and go back to playing guitar..

I say we abolish computers and the Internet all together and go live in a shack in the woods.

The problem is that the "Fritz" chip is going to enforce this. AMD and Intel have agreed to ship it in their mobo's which enforces Palladium's security features.

*Very low, resonating bass sound*

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 07-25-2003).]

http://www.stoppalladium.org

actually, I've wondered what I'm gonna do if and when this rolls around and the solution is quite simple-

I already have Linux Boxes ready to let me do whatever the fuck I want with them, they won't touch the 'good computers' running Palladium/Longhorn and connected to the internet except to burn my files to CDs and disks and swap between them...

Palladium/DRM/TCPA -- KissMyAss/Linux -- Back again...

To mod a popular phrase: "They can have my Linux box when they pry it from my cold dead hands."


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

[This message has been edited by Petskull (edited 07-25-2003).]

Click

...and Click

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 07-25-2003).]

On a side note, I did a paper for school a while ago called "1984, now" in which I detailed what life would be like under 1984(ish) circumstances. It's actually fairly close to this.

To go along with the hardware enforcement, what if we don't pay for Palladium? What if it's just one of those critical updates that get shot out to us? They don't need to make money SELLING Palladium. They KNOW they'll make money after it's in place. A piece here and piece there... most users wouldn't have a clue. Who knows if we don't already have half of it in our XP boxes right now? Not to start a panic or anything but it is an underhanded and dirty sort of things to do. Isn't that what we've been saying the M$ is capable of all these years?

Straight from M$: Palladium NGSBC News

Specifications for the "Fritz chip": (pdf) Download

"I've resolved that Win2000 is the last OS I'll be using from Micro$oft." Thats how i feel too, the only decent OS they've made its why it isnt supported anymore I recon , if everyone stuck with 2kpro noone would need to upgrade, just the odd patch down the line.

I don't think this is such a bad thing, hopefully it'll push everyone over the edge to rid there hard drives or microsoft crap. Manufacturers are goin to refuse this crap, who is goin to build these motherboards and other MS specific hardware ?

Linux(and others) from what I can tell from afar are getting more user friendly and GUI orientated by the day, soon it'll be far superior to MS and just as widespread.

let them palladium about all they like.

quote:

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Manufacturers are goin to refuse this crap, who is goin to build these motherboards and other MS specific hardware ?

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The question is, who is not going to?
Here´s a short excerpt from the TCPA members List at http://www.againsttcpa.com/tcpa-members.html
(TCPA is the old name for Palladium, BTW)

quote:

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3Com Corp.
Acer, Inc.
Adobe Systems, Inc
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. aka AMD
ALi Corporation
American Megatrends Inc.
Compaq Computer Corporation *
Computer Associates International, Inc.
Dell Computer Corporation
Fujitsu Limited
Fujitsu-Siemens-Computers
Gateway, Inc.
Hewlett-Packard Company *
Hitachi, Ltd. PC Div.
Infineon Technologies Corporation
Infineon Technologies Asia Pacific Pte Ltd
Intel Corporation
International Business Machines Corporation aka IBM
Iomega Corporation
Micron Electronics, Inc
Microsoft Corporation *
Motorola
National Semiconductor
NEC Corporation
Network Associates, Inc.
Novell, Inc.
nVidia
Philips Semiconductors
Phoenix Technologies, Ltd.
Raytheon Company
RSA Security, Inc.
SAGEM MORPHO, Inc.
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO. LTD
Siemens AG
Sony Electronics, Inc.
Toshiba Corporation
VIA Technologies, Inc.

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Scared?

[This message has been edited by MW (edited 07-25-2003).]

Holy fuck.

What about foreign markets?

Oh wait, I just remembered. To those of you who don't know, Palladium is only 3/4th's the story. The new OS that Palladium is run under doesn't use the FAT32 or NTFS file structure. Microsoft decided that they'd better switch your file structure into something resembling a mySQL database, so that anything pre-Longhorn (the OS) won't run! YAY!

Me, I just downloaded a distribution of Linux, and am going about the fairly daunting task of installing and getting to learn Linux. Be prepared, as the Boy Scouts would say.

(QUESTION: Are their any good Windows emulators for Linux, because I'd like to be able to still use Painter and various freeware that I am currently using?)

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 07-25-2003).]

Try Lindows.

I thought that Lindows was just a Windows-ey looking Linux? Anyways, I'll look it up. Thanks.

Yeah, heard about that too. The new file system is going to be called WinFS for "Future Storage" or some bs like that.

Goddamn... even VIA's on that list now?

Chances are though, that some overseas manufacturers will resist and make some anti-Palladium mobos and anti-Palladium chips and the such...
I'd but them, at least

Actaully, MS sued Lindows for infringing it's copyrights and claiming there'd be market confusion with two OS's named so similarly... wtf?

Lindows OS. Windows XP.


Damn, I'm confused already...




[This message has been edited by ozphactor (edited 07-25-2003).]

Windows 1984.com

You know what this looks like to me? The end of the information age. I mean, think about it, in the 80's and 90's, there was a gigantic increase in computing technology and power, along with vast improvments in software. With all of this being monitored, is there any room for innovation. Look at the above link, the music industry is trying to stop Sony from releasing a 100 hour CD, because they fear the it will cause pirates to "pirate more." If computer usage drops, then the vendors will stop making parts, and researching etcetera.

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 07-25-2003).]

sheesh, i may have to save money to buy an SGI

Photoshop on Linux
Wine- "Wine is an Open Source implementation of the Windows API on top of X and Unix."

[This message has been edited by Petskull (edited 07-26-2003).]

I just installed a test version of Red Hat, Debian and Slackware on 5 gig partitions to see which one I like best. Welp...

I just built an abacus from a bag of M&M's and some chopsticks and some chewing gum. Still working on the operating system. Welp!

M&M's suck, Full of security holes and buggy. If I were you I would "Switch" to Skittles, they are far superior much more user friendly and secure. I have used my Skittle abacus has over a year with out a major crash. Let's see M&M's do that. Skittles are worth the extra cost.

J. Stuart J.

This looks like a wonderful way for M$ haters to spread a lot of shit, see, it's already doing wonders here.

Half of what was said in that article would be illegal in my country, and lets not forget that the *nix community dominates the web server market, you really think their going to waste millions on supporting fritz so that MS OS's can network with them?... Hah, not a chance in hell. If MS can't dominate the server market they can't enforce this kind of thing, at least, not to the extent *implied* in that article, which isn't worth the paper I printed it on IMHO.

If you ask me this sounds like some slashdot geek who hasn't been getting enough sun dribbled his delirious thoughts onto his semen stained keyboard in a hope to justify his existance.

Some of it may be true, if it is, I'll vote with my feet when the times comes -- but it's things like this that started witch hunts many years ago.

I remember when windows ME first came out, some so called *nix geek tried to convince me that Windows ME would automatically corrupt any installation of a Non MS web browser. I also know lots of *nix geeks who were convinced that IE4 had *hidden* routines in it that tried to stop you from downloading NN4. -- I've heard a lot more crap like this before too, just goes to show how bloody stupid people can be regardless of the OS they use.

You wanna know what scares me, still, is the anti-piracy measures and the new SQL based architecture. The anti piracy measures will prevent the sharing of (even legal) mp3's and video files, as well as prevent ripping. The inclusion of this "auto delete" software might make it so that your own recorded mp3's could accidently get deleted, and legally shared mp3's could get deleted. Also, with access to your Word documents (etcetera) you won't be able to keep anything a secret. Bascially, your computer will be able to be remote controlled from (somewhere) and controlled, scanned and edited without your knowledge and against your will. Since you aren't able to pirate programs, this is going to make a lot of people mad. Think about it, most everybody that works with PS now got their first version pirated, and they learned on a pirated version, same goes for MSDN etcetera.

With their new SQL architecture, it will be impossible to use old freeware programs. The reason that this won't work is that everybody develops and knows how to develop for NTFS and FAT32 architectures. Think about your old games. How will those work. Computers will be starting anew. I heard that Vivendi (Blizzard) and Valve aren't going to program anything for the new file system.

(Dracusis, a lot of what their doing is illegal in the US also, but since their teamed up with the goverment in this, and not many people know about it, it isn't getting the attention that it would need in order to be destroyed.)

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 07-27-2003).]

Obtain information.
Investigate that information.
Confirm.
Get any operating system other than Microsoft.

My husband has had Linux on his machine for a long while now, being an "old Linuxian". He has a small partition with Windows 98 on it just so we can play games together sometimes. After reading this he will immediately remove this partition from his hard drive.
I will switch to and start learning Linux as well (*sigh*) as soon as possible.

I REFUSE to let any company take over my privacy, with the sweet promise it is for my best!

~~Kasta sten i glashus? Jag?~~

^^^ What the? Why remove windows 98? Christ all mighty, is it mob mentality week or somehting....

CFB, The govnernment isn't who you'd need to keep quite about this, it's the press M$ would have to worry abuout, and no gonvernment or monoplistic company can keep them quite if they think a story will sell.

As for M$ making any radical changes what will hamper the efforts of freeware/open source development. Well, look at the shit fight that happened over M$ removing the Java Virtual Machine from XP. If history is anyting to go by and if you were to believe everyting that's being said about M$'s new OS, then one would be inclined to think that MS is run by 3 year olds.

A company doesn't get the kind of market share MS has by being stupid. Sure, a lot of their marketing stratiges have been somewhat underhanded, but I highly doubt their stupid enough to do what everyone thinks they're trying to do.

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 07-28-2003).]