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reborn
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: kofin,6ft.under
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 10-09-2003 14:28

Hello
I was just wondering me as a new born rookie want to know where should I start if I want to program.with the web or just comp. stuff and if so what languages would be best to "study"?

------------------------------------
It is better to have loved and lost then not to have loved at all unless that love was a lie.but then a gain when I love again the question is REBORN..

Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 10-09-2003 14:34

Well...that all depends...what do you want to do with it? Where do you want to take it? Where do you want it to take you?

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 10-09-2003 14:34

reborn: Oh I hate giving the depends answer but............

It depends on what you want to do and where you want to end up.

The best way to learn this kind of thing is to get your hands dirty.

Start building a site (so you'lll want a good understanding of (X)HTML and CSS), you might want so rollovers and things so throw in a bit of JavaScript. Once you are happy with that you might want to simplify the design with includes (PHP does this nicely as do most server-side scripting languages) and then you might want to make the site more dynamic (forum, news/blog, etc.) and so you'll want to get more invovled with a servers-die language (a great combination is PHP/MySQL).

Work out what you want to do and then dig around in the language that will get the job done.

I can't be more specific but it does depend on you and the available technology, etc.

[edit ~kicks Skaarjj in the shins for stealing my ideas~ ]

___________________
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Ruski
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 10-09-2003 14:35

Python

easy to get it not, powerful, flexible, recommended for begginer programers.


as for web start with HTML and Javascript...not java asshole

InI
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 10-09-2003 14:44

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 10-09-2003 16:16

'java asshole'
Is that what they call it when you get the shits from too much coffee?

bitdamaged
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: 100101010011 <-- right about here
Insane since: Mar 2000

posted posted 10-09-2003 18:52

Python? hmm I wouldn't recommed that as an entry language. Not that it's a bad language but it's syntax is relatively unique.

Javascript is handy to learn because it's basic syntax is very portable to other languages and you have a built in interpreter right there in your browser.

PHP is also very simple to learn and again has a syntax that is very portable to other languages.

Perl has a steeper learning curve so I don't know if I'd recommend it off the bat but it is extremely powerful, flexible and widely used.

Java, and the C variants are also not bad starting points if you want to do application development. (Maybe Visual Basic too but I don't know enough about it to comment). Java is probably a bit simpler to learn. Both these languages do add some levels of complexity to the languages above.





.:[ Never resist a perfect moment ]:.

Petskull
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: 127 Halcyon Road, Marenia, Atlantis
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 10-10-2003 00:38

I started programming as a tyke on QBasic.....

.... I then spent 7 years trying to get rid of all of those bad habits.....

Then I found Perl... it took me to C and back...
It's easy to learn, and highly powerful (it's the intermediate stage that's a strong swig of Jack)....

Whatever you do, don't start with learn php, it's only good for webdesign if you get a interpreter and if you decide to run a webserver...

....at least the girls are better....

...there are many better languages out there for eveything even learning..


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

Tyberius Prime
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Germany
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted posted 10-10-2003 18:18

well, If I had the choice today, I'd start with c#... you can get a free ide from borland that works reasonably well, it's got a huge, extensive, and nice framework, some nice high level features...

After that I'd advance to python - it's syntax is not in any way 'strange', basic apl style, and a lot clearer than for example c or java.
But it is dynamically typed, and while I love working with such a system, the type checking can catch many many bugs, especially if you're beginner, and it would be terribly easy to get frustrated if your program started throwing 'random' exceptions.

java - it's basic apl style syntax, with some arcane twists, and honestly, it's framework just doesn't fit the way *I* think.

InI
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 10-10-2003 18:31

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

CPrompt
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: there...no..there.....
Insane since: May 2001

posted posted 10-10-2003 18:56

I'd go with what Bitdamaged suggested. I am not sure I'd even mess with Visual Basic, much for the same reason that Petskull commented about QBasic. I fought like hell trying to stop wanting to use that style of language. I think PHP is pretty simple to get the hang of right off the bat, but I did some stuff in other languages before PHP so I am not sure that it was just the PHP language itself.

Anyway, please tell me that I am just not understanding what you mean here:

quote:
"Of course, I could blatantly claim this and claim that due to my extraordinary experience"



Later,

C:\


~Binary is best~

InI
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 10-10-2003 19:32

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Morph
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: The Soft Cell
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted posted 10-10-2003 20:05

Sooo, to recap the above, if you want a programing language to start off with then try

(X)HTML, CSS, javascript, python, PHP, perl, Java or a C variant
or possibly non of the above

hmm, is everything clear now....



NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

posted posted 10-10-2003 20:25

For someone who knows nothing about programming (me) I found this bit to lay out the starting point.

quote:
Put another way: what do I expect the reader to know already?

I expect the reader of this tutorial to be an experienced user of a computer system, probably MS DOS, Windows or Unix although others should be able to cope too. I also expect them to understand basic mathematical concepts such as geometric coordinates, sets, and basic algebra. These are all important in todays programming environments, and many programming concepts are based on these ideas.

I certainly will not be covering issues like how to create or copy text files, how to install software, or the organization of files on a computer storage system. Frankly if you need to know those things you probably are not at the stage of being able to program, regardless of your desire to do so. Find a tutorial for your computer first, then when you're confident with the above concepts revisit.


http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/


"geometric coordinates, sets, and basic algebra."

I'll NEVER be a programmer! =)

Jestah
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Long Island, NY
Insane since: Jun 2000

posted posted 10-11-2003 02:41

I'm not so sure it matters where you begin.

Whether you choose ASP, Perl, PHP, etc. as long as you find a programing language that fills your needs and you invest the time I don't think you'll have any problems.

Jestah

Petskull
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: 127 Halcyon Road, Marenia, Atlantis
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 10-11-2003 12:35

so, in recapping...

We all agree that DHTML/Javascript would be a good place to start...

...am I right?

InI
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 10-11-2003 12:46

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: France
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 10-11-2003 14:33

For sure DHTML+Javascript is a good way to start in that you can get some visible results pretty fast, and all you need is a text editor and a browser. Once you've got enough of that combo, or need something else, you can learn some more classical language faster.

Beside that, am I the only one to not consider (X)HTML and CSS as programming language ? The only thing that may look like programming is the :hover pseudo class in CSS. And I consider (X)HTML more as a file format than as a programming language.

Mathieu "POÏ" HENRI

InI
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 10-11-2003 16:09

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

quisja
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: everywhere
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 10-11-2003 21:50

When I started my A-Level course in computing we started with Pascal. I'm not sure where you can get it from, but you can get a free editor/compiler on the internet, and probably some tutorials somewhere. As a general introduction I found it quite good, because it is quite strict in its syntax.

Javascript is a good way to go to, because it's a lot easier to instantly see a real-world application for it, and it's way easier to get bits of code etc. off the internet. See www.hotscripts.com and http://javascript.internet.com for that kinda thing. It's important to make sure that you understand what you're doing though, and get a good grasp of the basic concepts. You'll wanna find yourself a good tutorial somewhere.

Petskull
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: 127 Halcyon Road, Marenia, Atlantis
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 10-14-2003 17:59

yeah, I heard somewhere that HTML/CSS were probably better considered a 'Document Type' based on the lack of 'flow control'


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

InI
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 10-14-2003 18:13

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Petskull
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: 127 Halcyon Road, Marenia, Atlantis
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 10-14-2003 18:31

that's what I said..


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

reborn
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: kofin,6ft.under
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 10-22-2003 14:34

oh... ok I get it I should start from DHtml/Javascript then elevate myself to a higher platform like css, perl, python, etc...

thanks a lot I will look at google's and gurus tutorials.
if you guys have better sources on DHTML/JS plz do insist...


------------------------------------
It is better to have loved and lost then not to have loved at all unless that love was a lie.but then a gain when I love again the question is REBORN..

CPrompt
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: there...no..there.....
Insane since: May 2001

posted posted 10-22-2003 22:09
quote:
then elevate myself to a higher platform like css, perl, python, etc...



Nope, leave CSS out of it. CSS is not programming like Petskull and Ini said. If you are going to do DHTML then you are going to be learning CSS too. DHTML is a mixture of Javascript and CSS

eigh, I'd leave Perl out all together. Good perl code looks like it was typed with your elbows
Long live PHP!

Later,

C:\


~Binary is best~

Veneficuz
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: A graveyard of dreams
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 10-22-2003 23:22
quote:
Good perl code looks like it was typed with your elbows


The possibility is there, but it is still possible to write good perl programs that has readable code. But I would also agree that learing PHP is better for web related things, but if you're going to do a lot of work on *nix machines Perl will come better to use.

_________________________
"There are 10 kinds of people; those who know binary, those who don't and those who start counting at zero"
- the Golden Ratio -

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