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warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-13-2003 15:17

I was over at U2U and someone second guessed me on Displace. I really hate that. I realize that the folks over there don't know me and my techniques, but it still gets under my skin. Grrr!

So I'm posting it over here for two reasons:
1. Placate my ego because mykungfuisthebest.
2. There are some things about this D-Map that I've been meaning to talk about. That is, I've got another tip or two and this D-Map is a good segue.

By looking at this, I'm sure most of you folks can build it:


(please, no red x)

Right now, there are two things that I want to point out:
1. Base is not an invert of the Zoom Cube. Might look like it, but it's not. Base is set to `skew mode'. Red channel is black to white going top to bottom. Green is black to white going left to right.
2. I have an extra Curves Ad-Layer on the top. Because I'm using Exclusion, Blue gets messed up and isn't the lovely 50% grey that I so adore. So I added a Curves Ad-Layer and "flattened" Blue to 128.

It's going to be some time before I get into the last thing that I want to talk about. At the very least, you'll have a chance to get your brain warmed up. Maybe even build the Uber Skew D-Map to see what it does.



MW
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: 48°00ŽN 7°51ŽE
Insane since: Jan 2003

posted posted 09-13-2003 15:21

I only see a red x.

[edit]oh, now it works[/edit]

[This message has been edited by MW (edited 09-13-2003).]

axleclarkeuk
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Swansea, Wales, UK
Insane since: Aug 2001

posted posted 09-13-2003 18:29

If you cannot see the image, click here WJ's Image

ozphactor
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: California
Insane since: Jul 2003

posted posted 09-14-2003 03:23

Hmm, I've been having problems seeing images coming from wj's server for some reason. Axle's link doesn't work either

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 09-14-2003 06:09

wj:

quote:
mykungfuisthebest



We don't need convincing but if you need us to go over there and open huge cans of whoopass just shout

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-14-2003 06:58

Some whoopass over at U2U on my behalf? Now I feel warm and fuzzy. Mostly fuzzy.

I doubt I'll ever ask for it, though. I do get angry, but I invariably calm down and deal with the "doubting Thomas" by going *way* over the top and leaving him with that look on his face.

Although, I recently encountered little pip-squeak that decided to give me some trouble. We just went a round, and I'm pretty sure he'll be leaving me alone for awhile.

Oz, I believe you mentioned having problems seeing my graphics recently. I was hoping it was cleared up by now, but I guess not. Anybody else getting red x from my crappy ISP server? Maybe I'll be talking to Pugz in the coming months.

What was I talking about?

Umm...

More stuff happened today than I was counting on. Even more stuff tomorrow. If I'm not back to this in a few days, feel free to smash my pinky toe with a sledge.




Skaarjj
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: :morF
Insane since: May 2000

posted posted 09-14-2003 07:01

Yep...your server has definatley been visited by the Red-X monster wj

fraxyl
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: australia
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 09-16-2003 18:42

I'm just wondering what U2U is, so I can go and laugh at them... or something... or at least see what the herk you're talking about.

I'm sure it's good d-map work, though.

fraxyl

warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-16-2003 22:14

U2U = Adobe's User to User forums

Oh, man. I've been putting the Uber Skew D-Map through some paces and it's *way* more powerful and versatile than I ever suspected. Through my twisted sense of humour, I have managed to surprise even myself. That's somehow ironic.

Many moons ago I had the goal of "cannifying" with Displace. I managed that goal. I have another goal, but the solution has eluded me for a long time. (Pardon my use of tense.) Turns out the Uber Skew solves that problem, and many others. Not to mention what simple variations can do.

Hot damn!
I am unstoppable!
...even if only in my own mind.

Gotta finish up a few things.
Back later.

warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-17-2003 00:18

Bleh!

When I use the Exclusion Mask trick, I use one of two variations. One involves involves two Curves Ad-Layers: Tweak and Mask Fix. The other variation is just plain ol' Tweak by it's lonesome. Just depends on how I want to visualize things and the curve that I plan on using. They can be equivalent, with either being easier to use.

Now, the same idea can be extended to be used with skewing. If you have a curve, but it only uses a small part of the curve/gradient, then you don't have much room to move in the Curves dialog. So, use the above idea to "scale the Curve with a Curve".



If it's not a red x, it should clarify what I'm quickly babbling about.

So far for me, it's really a matter of convenience. I wouldn't call it a life saver just yet, but it can make life easier.

Gotta go!

docilebob
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: buttcrack of the midwest
Insane since: Oct 2000

posted posted 09-17-2003 04:53

`scuse me for being dense, but I must have missed something.

No matter how I tweak it, I get no distortion in the lower right hand corner.
What did I miss ?

warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-17-2003 16:03

Alright, DB, let's try a little exercise to try and figure it out.

Start a new layer and call it 'Base2'.
Fill it with something obnoxious, like bright red or a photo of your left foot.
Turn off Base and use Base2 in it's place.

Turn off Exclusion Mask H.

Go down to Exclusion Mask V's Tweak 2 ad-layer and get crazy with the Curve.
Don't just mess around, but get crazy with the Cheese Whiz. That is, don't just wiggle the curve, but move the end points as well.

Doing so should give you a visual feedback on how that particular part of the D-Map works.
Once you get the hang of that, do the same for Exclusion Mask H.
So, turn off Exclusion Mask V, turn on Exclusion Mask V, and get crazy with the Cheese Whiz again.

Once you get the hang of each one seperately, turn them both on and fool around.
With a little practice, you should be able to make any part of Base2, the obnoxious layer, to peek through.

Then, turn off Base2, turn Base back on, and give it another whirl.

It's always good to play with the bit-n-pieces seperately just to see how they work. [insert sexaul innuedo here about the mystery of a woman's body]
Let me know how it goes.

docilebob
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: buttcrack of the midwest
Insane since: Oct 2000

posted posted 09-17-2003 22:37

Ok. Tried your instructions above, turning off one layer at a time, high numbers, low numbers, negative numbers, repeated application, Changing just the tweak layers (one at a time, and both together), just the fix layers( one at a time ,and both), event the *blue curve*), and the only way I found that will distort that corner is to duplicate the Base layer and flip it .
So, obviously I`m missing something basic.
"added a Curves Ad-Layer and "flattened" Blue to 128." You mean adjusted the curve til the output was 128, yes ? Although I changed that to to no efect.

Duurrr. I don`t get it.

warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-18-2003 00:07

Hmm...

Post or e-mail the PSD?

And yes about 'Blue 128'. It's just a flat line that goes from 128 on one side to 128 on the other.

axleclarkeuk
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Swansea, Wales, UK
Insane since: Aug 2001

posted posted 09-18-2003 00:11

Is it just me or is this WAYYYYYYYY !!! over my head ?

eyezaer
Lunatic (VI) Mad Scientist

From: the Psychiatric Ward
Insane since: Sep 2000

posted posted 09-18-2003 05:50

I am still just trying to get past the word "Uber" in the title...

so, its just you and me axle.

I have not had the time to actually try it yet... so that may have someting to do wit it. Looks quite interesting, even if i don't yet "get it".

Morph
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: The Soft Cell
Insane since: Nov 2001

posted posted 09-18-2003 10:15

I'm no slouch with photoshop but I've never used the Dmap filter. gave it a try after reading this thread though but I still don't have a clue whats going on here




~We're not here for long, we're here for fun~

Ruku
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Darkside of the Moon
Insane since: Aug 2003

posted posted 09-18-2003 12:44

I have the feeling that by funny means the good doctors have discoverd a way of displacing images with out the dispalcement filter.

Just out of interest, is there such thing as a displacement layer? Thats one thing I've always wanted in photoshop.

---
"The Mystery of Life"
Vol. 841, Ch. 26
"All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu. This is the truth! This is my beleif! ...at least for now." - Chrono Trigger
><>

warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-18-2003 19:19

Do you "younger" folks want a walk-thru on how the D-Map works? I was kind of counting on past experience to avoid this, but I'll take the time.

Yes, there is a way to displace an image with out Displace, and you can do so visually with immediate feedback. It's called Liquify. Did I just say that?

Ruku, there is no such thing as a displacement layer. Folks have been crying for one to Adobe for a long time, but one has yet to turn up.

Uber!



docilebob
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: buttcrack of the midwest
Insane since: Oct 2000

posted posted 09-18-2003 21:25

Ok, WJ, I had the *blue* layer adjusted differently than you did. I had a line from 0(dark) to 128. When I fixed it, all I can see is the grey layer, i.e. I can`t see what the map is doing when I adjust it, and all Displace sees is the grey.

The PSD

I tried to think, but nuttin happened.

warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-19-2003 18:23

The first thing I noticed is the gradients. They seem to go black-white-white instead of black-white. I'm assuming you did this on purpose to try to fix what's going wrong.

What I suspect is going wrong is Blue 128. I really should have clarified this Ad-Layer better.
Input/Output: 0/128
Input/Oupput: 255/128

That is supposed to be in the Blue channel of the Curves Ad-Layer - not RGB.

I like my blue channel to be 50% grey. However, because of the Exclusion layers, that lovely grey gets messed up. So I just "flattened" it to 128 all the way across at the top of the D-Map. Or you can just turn it off all-together.

That should do it, then you can put your gradients back to black-white (or you can leave them for some pleasant surprises).

Emperor
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist with Finglongers

From: Cell 53, East Wing
Insane since: Jul 2001

posted posted 09-19-2003 18:52

wj:

quote:
Do you "younger" folks want a walk-thru on how the D-Map works? I was kind of counting on past experience to avoid this, but I'll take the time.



Yep - if you throw something out on that we can jam it in the FAQ and we can level the playing field (to be honest I'm glad fraxyl asked what U2U was as I was going to struggle to open a can of whoopass without a clear idea of where the grab opening was going to take place).

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

poi
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: France
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 09-19-2003 22:56

warjournal: My main idea question since the beginning of this thread is: What the hell is the purpose of that "complex" Dmap
I've never experienced the Dmap filter as much as you did but I'd be glad to really understand the how-to of this filter. I should surely dive into Tech-Slop and take few days to experiment somethings by myself

Thanks in advance.

Mathieu "POÏ" HENRI

docilebob
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: buttcrack of the midwest
Insane since: Oct 2000

posted posted 09-19-2003 23:05

Cool WJ, thanks for the explaination. I`ll fix the blue ad layer, but the gradients were the stock fore/background gradient, with B/W pulled from the edge to the midpoint of the doc. (basicly leaving the lower right corner untouched). Maybe I`m pulling the gradients wrong ?

~time warp~

Nope, that wasn`t it. Fixed the ad layer, and tried turning it off, also. Still no movement in the lower right corner.
Must be something I`m doing to the gradient. Did you try the psd I posted ? Want a screen shot of what it`s not doing ?

warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-20-2003 02:23

I'm completely delirious with exhaustion. You should be so lucky.
Gonna get worse the next few days.

So don't be surprised if I'm gone for the next 72 hours or so.

Back when my brain is functioning.

warjournal
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From:
Insane since: Aug 2000

posted posted 09-21-2003 05:24

Today wasn't as bad as I was expecting. I'm still hurting, but not as bad as I thought I would be. Maybe tomorrow will be worse.

DB, I have no idea what is going on with your D-Map. It's all good with me when I turn off Blue 128. The only thing I have left to suggest is starting from scratch.

I wrote a real quick-n-sleazy mini-tut on this junk.

Uber Skew

One thing that I didn't mention in there is Blue 128. See a post above for clarification.

Sleep...
G'nite, folks.

edit:
Yeah, bed time my ass.
I was lying down and my head was working. I thought of something and had to try it. Sure enough, I've discovered something else that is way cool.

In the Uber Skew, the Exclusion masks work in and "mode". That is, things will only move where the white in H and V intersect. I've figured out how to get it to work in pseudo-or "mode".

Great. Just great.
Now I'm going to be thinking about how to get it into full or mode.

edit2:
Damn it. Went to bed - again - with my head still working.
Found the answer to getting full or mode.

Back to bed, and I'm going to stay there. I mean it.

[This message has been edited by warjournal (edited 09-21-2003).]

[This message has been edited by warjournal (edited 09-21-2003).]

fraxyl
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: australia
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 09-21-2003 16:27

Thanks WJ, that sheds a whole lot of light on the d-map stuff. Now all I need are some ideas on how to use it. :

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