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At0mic_PC
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Columbia MS USA
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted posted 03-16-2004 04:00

When I was in grade school I often entered my bits of work into contests. Mostly graphite pencil with a few charcoals. I pulled several first second and third place works. But I have noticed that I haven't gotten much if any better than those drawings 15/20 years ago. I feel that I can do better. I have things in my head that I can't get to paper/pc. I can see what doesn't look right.

Like people see images in clouds, I see them everywhere. You or someone may see a slice of wood, but I see how the grains of wood come to form a figure with a face that would make a great character.

I guess what I'm trying to ask, is it possible for me to gain more talent than I had then and perfect things? Were you born with talent or did you aquire it through practice and determination? Where are some places I can practice these things with shapes, perspective and shading?

[EDIT]: Incoherent rambling. Paragraphed for train of thou...



[This message has been edited by At0mic_PC (edited 03-16-2004).]

AnimEdge
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Texas
Insane since: Mar 2004

posted posted 03-16-2004 06:57

have you ever drawn anything in the last 15/20 years? cuz ya know that might be your problem, i belive that everyone starts out at a certain skill level at everything, some better than others, and from there you pratice and practice and improve apon that skill and become better

w007

Ruski
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 03-16-2004 13:30
quote:
is it possible for me to gain more talent than I had then and perfect things? Were you born with talent or did you aquire it through practice and determination? Where are some places I can practice these things with shapes, perspective and shading?




Those are really silly questions...

First of all let me clarify, that I don't believe in that "talent" thing.
You just have to draw and not sit back, admire someone else's balls and wish you could draw like him.

This has to end.

I have been drawing since very little...as far as I can remember, I drew alot of stupid nonsense. The more I grew up the more I drew and more I learned. I coppied alot of comic books and such. This got me really good at lines...

By the age of 17 when I decided that I wanted to attend art college, I didn't have portfolio...Immediatly I found a workshop in Old San Juan and have been taking courses ever since. I never took the basic, yet I managed to win a trip to Colorado Springs for summer seminar to study more about art...

now I got accepted to SVA and SCAD....

The point is, its how much you put yourself into it, if you want to get better...it's just like any other profeccion.
It won't happen unless you practice...thats all you have to do, Practice!

Sure some people start out better than other....but thats about it..thats what talent is...no one is born to draw good...people just have a will to practice and learn..it might give you a push, but the rest is up to you...you won't get better if you won't practice, you will simply age.

Just go and find a workshop somewhere around, take the basic drawing...try human figure, and then paintng...just keep practicing...

Michelangelo once said:
"If you knew the time it took me to gain my mastery, it wouldn't seem so wonderful"

kitEkat
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: London, UK
Insane since: Nov 2003

posted posted 03-16-2004 14:38

I've heard that the book "The Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" is meant to be fantastic for people like you (and me) that want to learn... and I guess like the others said, taking the time to try... Perhaps it's more infuriating the older you get, because you want to achieve perfection, like trying to run before you can walk!?



link Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0874774241/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-4857675-2101655#reader-page



[This message has been edited by kitEkat (edited 03-16-2004).]

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 03-16-2004 15:08

There are 3 main keys to being able to draw well.

1) Observation. This is the single most important. You can't draw something correctly if you can't see it correctly. This may sound silly, but it is truly astounding how often people simply neglect to focus on observing what they are drawing. Drawing a human figure from your imagination, for instance, is not going to go very well unless you have spent a *great* deal of time doing figure drawing from live models. This applies to anything and everything. It's important that you change the way you look at things in your every day life - everything you see should be noted somehow as to form, texture, color, the way light interacts with it, etc..

2) Practice. This is the second most important. Your hand and eye will not work well together at first. Practice is the *only* way to make sure that they do. Practice practice practice practice. Bring a sketch pad with you everywhere that is plausible to do so. When you have to wait for things, pull it out and sketch something that you see around you (no matter what it is - the most mundane objects can be significant practice pieces).

3) Study. The more you know about a given subject matter, the better you will be able to express them visually. Human anatomy is again a prime example - if you know what the muscles under the skin are actually connecting to, what they are called, what they do, you will better understand what it is you are drawing, and you will draw them better.

And, ok, a 4th just for good measure -
4) Critique. Post your work here, or show it to friends or aquaintances who you are confident will give you an honest, informed opinion. Don't be afraid of harsh criticism - honesty is the only way you will improve.
If someone tells you what you've done is crap, you have two things to consider -

1) It's just their opinion

2) How much stock do you put in their opinion? Don't simply dismiss someone saying your work is crap - they may just be right. But that means you just need to keep working.

{{edit - and while everyone is born with certain predispositions that may lead them in certain directions, nobody is 'born talented' in that sense. It's not a gift. It's the fruit of labor.

[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 03-16-2004).]

InI
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 03-16-2004 15:32

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

DL-44
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: under the bed
Insane since: Feb 2000

posted posted 03-16-2004 16:33

It's all in how much you apply yourself.

People can spend a lifetime of practice and observation, have some ok stuff, but if their hearts not truly in it, and if they don't take the initiative to expand their world a bit, they won't ever become the kind of artist who makes your jaw hang open...

Many won't even become competent. Like anything else, it's about challenge. If you settle for mediocrity, then that's what you'll be.


[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 03-16-2004).]

InI
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist

From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 03-16-2004 16:50

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

viol
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Charles River
Insane since: May 2002

posted posted 03-16-2004 19:57

For me, there are two components to being good at something: genetics and learning/practicing. If you don't have the genetics, I mean, if you're not a natural to the thing, if you were not gifted with a talent for that specific subject, you can build one by learning and practicing. You can become a good one at it.

If you have the genetics but do not practice/learn, you are a natural good one at it.

If you have the genetics and if learn/practice a lot, you become a master, you will excel.

I don't know how much of a gift is from the genes, how much is from our own effort in getting better, but I am pretty sure that both play an important role.

Ruski
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From:
Insane since: Jul 2002

posted posted 03-16-2004 20:46

InI, Michelangelo created this at the age of 16, yet no one in the family seemed to have artistic background....his father hated him for chosing art....he was simply obsesed with it...

if there is a will, there is a way.

DL summarized it clearly...

also people are born into families who never had a real artist parent/grandparent...and yet many of them manage to become masters....



viol
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Charles River
Insane since: May 2002

posted posted 03-16-2004 23:18

While having parents or parents of your parents that have some very strong natural skill may help, it's not a certainty that you'll have it also. When I say "genetics", I don't mean getting something from your parents, I mean being born with something special, that may be partially due to your parents, or may be just because Mother Nature wanted it as such.

Do you really believe that the great masters of all time, be it in music, painting, physics, or whatever, were simple persons that managed to become what they became just for their own merits? I don't. They were born with something else. And they managed to use this something else the right way.

At0mic_PC
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Columbia MS USA
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted posted 03-17-2004 04:57

Thanks for the many replies. I'll keep them all in consideration. Practice practice practice.

I'm definatly going to have to bid on a wacom at ebay. Drawing with the mouse kind of sucks because I'm a lefty with a righty mouse.

Ramasax
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: PA, US
Insane since: Feb 2002

posted posted 03-17-2004 05:48

Beleiving in genetics is a cop-out and excuse for future failure in my opinion, almost as bad as believing in fate. Sure, some people have this magic skill, but if you think about it there is really no magic at all, just dedication and a motivation that beats out the competition.

My artwork is currenly mediocre for the most part, I know this, but I also know with practice and dedication, I can improve. And if today's society allowed me to spend all my time on art, which it does not, then I believe I or anyone with the will and passion to do so could become a master in their chosen style.

Key words to remember: will, passion, motivation, dedication, and even love of something so much that it drives you to be the best that you can be. I don't like the thought of genetics or fate, they each say only one thing to a person: You can't do that!

Sure, there are holes in my beliefs, you could say Michaelangelo had a talent to be doing the kind of work he was at such an early age. I look at it this way in that case: We simply have things like TV, the Internet, and video games to distract us from our dreams and rot our brains. . There probably wasn't much going on in his time, so art was able to be everything to him.

At0mic_PC
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Columbia MS USA
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted posted 03-22-2004 00:41

Off to get me a sketch pad! I figure I need to practice on paper a bit before I tackle the some of the harder PC graphics. Oh and I found one of my old sketch pads. It must be the mouse lol. No matter, I'm sure to get a wacom on ebay one fine day.


The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. --Groucho Marx

bodhi23
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Greensboro, NC USA
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 03-29-2004 21:06

The best way to learn about shapes and shading is to set up a still life of inorganic objects found around your house and just draw them as they appear.

Get a couple of differently shaped things together and set them up under a desk lamp. Concentrate on the shapes and the shadows. When you've accomplished that, then move on to colors and details.

Baby steps, man... baby steps.

Practice practice practice.


Cell 617

At0mic_PC
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Columbia MS USA
Insane since: Apr 2001

posted posted 03-30-2004 02:12

I picked up "Drawing on the right side of the brain" at the local library. I was totally impressed with the technique in that book and I am (seeing) what I have been doing wrong for the past 20 or so years. Though not as good as most people here, I improved greatly in just the first 4 chapters. Still got to find something on shading though. My lines just don't look as good/clean as other peoples.

I wished I had a scanner, I think many of you would be happy for me with my progress.


The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. --Groucho Marx

outcydr
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: out there
Insane since: Oct 2001

posted posted 03-30-2004 02:56

that is a good book! i checked it out several years ago and if nothing else it helped me to realize what i was already doing subconciously.

i think it is a gift to be a good artist and unless you use the gift it isn't worth much. to you or anyone else. but then, of course, you have to apply the old addage "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", else art is not art.



Lacuna
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: the Asylum ghetto
Insane since: Oct 2002

posted posted 03-30-2004 02:58

oh, i bought that book a few weeks ago, but have been so busy lately that i haven't even had time to open it. i've heard lots of good things about the book though



outcydr
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: out there
Insane since: Oct 2001

posted posted 03-30-2004 02:59

that is a good book! i checked it out several years ago and if nothing else it helped me to realize what i was already doing subconciously.

i think it is a gift to be a good artist and unless you use the gift it isn't worth much. to you or anyone else. but then, of course, you have to apply the old addage "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", else art is not art.

ambiguosity is clearly vague



bodhi23
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Greensboro, NC USA
Insane since: Jun 2002

posted posted 03-30-2004 16:19

Scanners are getting to be very inexpensive and accesible these days. You can get a 3in1 printer with a scanner on it for under $100... I bet you could probably find a really incredible deal on a scanner for less than $50 if you look hard enough...

Shop, purchase, and then display your work! I'm interested to see what you've accomplished!

(Being left handed, like myself, you already draw from the right side of the brain... but yes, that is a very excellent book... I've used it in several art classes...)

[This message has been edited by bodhi23 (edited 03-30-2004).]

Alevice
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: Mexico
Insane since: Dec 2002

posted posted 03-30-2004 21:12

Going back a bit to the original post, I think that besides DL said (which is quite accurate, although it may be good sometimes to isolate single elements of a whole object to get a better understanding of it), something that affects your capablities (and not only from drawing) is the way you learn/assimilate stuff, aka how fast you get the grasp on things. if you happent to have understood something better than your colleague, you may improve a bit faster than him, and get better results after sometime (assuming both you and him spend the same dedication, patience, etc). I dont believe in natural born talents. Sphere of influence affects a lot as well.

__________________________________


Sexy Demoness cel

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