Topic: Net Ninjas

Our business is fledgling. Please check this out and tell me if you think that customers will take a shining to it.
NetNinjas.com
Are our processes sound? Are our prices reasonable? Again, we're new to this, so input (not criticism) is welcome.

Emps, Ini, if you're out there... you two have never steered me wrong in the past, and you always manage to be polite in the process. Your opinions are ESPECIALLY welcome.

Gotta go back to work

much better than your last effort.

I think your prices are way high (personal op)

I've got questions on the above mentioned. To be continued in outpatient counseling.

Anyway, continue reviews, if you please.

No Criticism? What's that?

Your 'estimates' and 'process' pages I find a bit overwhelming.
The first thing you want me to do on the 'estimates' page is go to your 'process' page.

"HomePage: $400 US (one page)"

Then at the bottom of your first 'process' page you say:

Please note: This price ($400 US) reflects the cost of your one-page draft. Additionally, if you?d like to take advantage of our ?Ninjas Never Sleep? campaign, this draft can be ready within 48 hours for an additional $200 US.

So what is it... $400 or $600 and how does this relate to:
?Ninjas Never Sleep? Emergency HomePage: $600 US (one page) Learn more?

btw "Learn more" which I assume is supposed to take me somewhere...doesn't. None that I tried anyway.

And please get rid of that bit of 'flash' that tells me that section is 'under construction.' Think about it for a minute. I have to wait while this thing loads only to be told there's nothing there yet. You could, I think, make better use of that animation in the same section where you tell me that 'custom buttons' are $15 each but you don't show me any. What if I don't know what 'buttons' are? Assume I know nothing about websites and that's why I'm at your site.

Oh... is the page supposed to start way up at the top like that or is something clipped off? And other than a link to 'packages' there's no navigation at the 'bottom' of the page so I have to scroll back up... and of course every time I hit the 'back button' I again get that annoying 'under construction' flash.

In my opinion you gotta do something with your navigation system especially if you're telling me, the potential customer, that you can build me a site that's easy to get around in.

As for prices...market driven I'd say.

So there you have it. Should you consider this "criticism" maybe you can just call it "input."

criticism is people who aren't out to help, just to say that you suck. It's just a matter of people being rude rather than helpful... it happens.

Anyway, Ninjas Never Sleep hasn't been posted yet. Learn more will be a link. These are things we are still tweaking. But basically, it is a condition in which we will wind up staying up all night to get a page done for $200 extra. The reason for this is that they would also be pushed up on the lead time. I think it's a good deal.

There's obviously still some tweaking that needs to be done, some more pages that need to be posted. Which is why I'm writing here. Saves me some brain work.

What's wrong with the navigation?

The page starting at the top... SOMEbody here changed something without consulting ME first... I won't say any names, but it begins with TH and ends with UMPER. I'm going to fix that as soon as I stop writing here.

But, to be honest, we've never had the opportunity to work for a firm before striking out on our own. The websites I designed were for the Navy, and I got the same amount of cash no matter which way I went (Military pay stinks). Now that I'm a civilian, I can't say that I know how to charge people. I'll learn. We've got someone else coming in to help us with that soon.

I like your suggestion on the buttons. Never thought about it.

By the way... I'm a code guy myself, never wanted to do TOO much with flash, but I've got to ask...
Why is it that everybody here is always hating on it? I don't understand... It can't be that horrible. Is it because if Macromedia makes it too easy, computer inept persons may take food out of our mouths? Please let me know so that I can start jeering at it too.

I thank you for your comments. Please excuse me, I have much to do.

Red Ninja: Some thoughts before I go to bed (esp. as you asked so nicely!!):

1. I like he way the beige and blue work together but there is something that isn't really working for me but is hard to pin down. Its typified by the top left hand corner and the transition from the beige to the blue - it seems to cut across 3D features arbitrarily and takes away from the effect.

2. Your prices? I'm not sure we can advise you on that as it varies so much - its not outrageous but if you find that you aren't getting much work then that might be a sign that you are charging too much and vice versa. However, until you have sites in the portfolio I'm not really sure that you can charge quite those numbers but you'll soon find out.

3. I would say that the price layout page could do with simplifying as it is far too confusing at the moment (I did come up with a plan to get you to make me an animated gif, I'd then put a button on my site back to you and you would owe me $50). Put in an actual table to make it easier on the eye and then keep those notes at the bottom of the page and have a link down to them.

4. If I go straight to estimates I wouldn't have a clue what all this phase 1-2 or phase 3-4 might mean and would probably wander off.

5. Cutting off the top of creativity does make me feel that there is a little bit of the page just above the top of the screen.

6. Your box on the front page looks odd in Op6 and some of your other formatting goes a little wrong (like on the phase 2 page).

7. To be honest I'd cut out all that Phase business and just for put something like 'each new website is a new challenge so contact us for a bespoke quote designed to meet your individual requirements'. If they want an idea of the phases they will go through then send them that (it may just be that I am tired and I really couldn't be bother ploughing through the text).

8. Your contact page has nothing in its title tag and everything must be as sharp and professional as possible.

9. There are services missing from your prices like server-side verse client-side scripting. Also what about the necessary bits for providing people with a site with e-commerce potential (shopping carts, databases, accepting credit cards).

Overall its a promising start. I'd try and lay your information out in a clearer way and cut down on the amount a potential client will have to read (and only include the stuff that is really necessary for the initial stage). This is so much better than a big Flash animation.

Which leads to the Flash question. I'm not sure too many people hate it - it is a powerful tool but must be used right. It can add considerably to a pages download and it does require a plugin so use it responsibly (or use it irresponsibly in very cool ways!!). I've seen some really great uses of it and I've seen some really bloated pages which just waste my time. If done well and used in the right context then I have no objections to it but it does take skill and judgement to get right.

Anyway that is just my take on it - good to see you back RN hope the business goes well for you!!

Emps

Flash for the sake of interactivity is a wonderful thing.

Flash for the sake of flash is a crime.

Nobody is afraid that macromedia made it too easy and food will be taken form their mouths. Them making it so easy has encouraged many bufoons to load their pages up with useless, unattractive, non functional chunks of flash to show how cool they are. Not good .


As far as the navigation - as has been said, there's just not much of it. If you have a long page like your estimates page, put a ro of text links along the bottom. Make them clearly visible and clearly seperate from the content.

Also, you seem to have links in the middle of your pages, rather inconspicuously, that are not located anywhere else - so if I miss it in the middle of the page, I simply won't ever get that information.

The graphical presentation - IMO, it's a bit heavy on the bevels. I don't know what method was used to create them, but they have a very heavy handed and "fake" feal to them. I am also bothered, as was Emperor, by the way the flat gradients seem to arbitrarily overlpa the 3D elements. How to sort it out? Well....simplify I guess is all really. Tone down some of those bevels, trim some of the fat.

Another issue already mentioned that I feel I must reiterate - the layout of information. Reading your pricelists is quite an undertaking at the moment. I am no stranger to the concepts on which you base the prices, but still I am confused about what it all means...not a good sign. You've got to make sure that someone with very little concept of this will understand.

And, FWIW -

crit·i·cism n. The practice of analyzing, classifying, interpreting, or evaluating literary or other artistic works.
You can't post a site for review without asking for criticism...



[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 04-12-2002).]

Well, I noticed that in the Nav part, when I go into the price area, I get these strange blue lines that 'shoot' out from the buttons (in the navigation area)...I'm pretty sure that is a problem, and not wanted. Now, I'm using IE as browser, not sure why it is occuring...

Gotcha.

Sort out information. Use better words to describe what I mean.

Maybe rude criticism is more what I meant. In any case, nobody here has been rude. I'm glad. Most of the time I come on here and ask for advice... and with the exception of a few people, most try to talk to me like I'm a newbie. It's true on some points, but even so, that elitist crap is wrong. ESPECIALLY with regard to anything having to do with the web, as the web was originally designed to distribute information freely (besides the military aspect of it), and if I'm not mistaken, the point of this forum is in keeping with that. Just my opinion.

I think we're just going to drop the price list altogether and be more vague with our process. I don't write sales, I just write code. We've got someone else coming onboard shortly that has more business sense than we do.

I know what those blue lines are. A very simple fix, really. I'll get on it.

We're going to center that whole thing in a table, and drop it down about fifteen pixels, and that will hopefully solve the creativity issue. (I can't see myself giving that cutoff up though. I kind of like it like that. Dropping it down a few pixels, on the other hand, would help the user to know that it isn't, in fact, being cut off.)

Thank you for your advice. I promise that once we get our wrinkles ironed it won't look nearly so disorganized as it does now (which is why I'm here in the first place)