Topic: site review $Pages that link to <a href="https://ozoneasylum.com/backlink?for=10289" title="Pages that link to Topic: site review" rel="nofollow" >Topic: site review\$

Author	Thread
fillow Bipolar (III) Inmate From: spain Insane since: Sep 2001	posted 02-10-2003 11:47 Hello. I have changed design of one site i built two months ago. It´s a shop for a friend. I would like to know your opinion about colors, style, etc. Thank you very much in advance. www.fillow.com
Suho1004 Maniac (V) Inmate From: Seoul, Korea Insane since: Apr 2002	posted 02-10-2003 14:51 The colors aren't bad--can't really go wrong with blue. The title font is another story, unless you don't care whether or not people actually read it or not. If I didn't know that the name of the shop was Fillow Sports, I would have had a hard time telling from the logo. The NCAA link at the top is a few pixels higher than the other links--you might want to check that out.
fillow Bipolar (III) Inmate From: spain Insane since: Sep 2001	posted 02-11-2003 11:54 Thank you for coments suho
Rinswind 2th Maniac (V) Inmate From: Den Haag: The Royal Residence Insane since: Jul 2000	posted 02-11-2003 14:03 For what resolution is this made? 800600? i looked at it on 1024768. On my screen it has o lot of white space on the right side. While the nav buttons and links are very tight on each other on the left side. I think it's a little bit out of balance on a big screen. And an 1024*768 resolution is pretty common. I think when you could made the site scale it will be better. Also i have to agree the title is very hard to read. Try the F in the white circle on the side instead off the f in the title.... Then you maybe have to drop the logo on the site. This is not bad it's there twice already. When you drop the big one you could also intergrade the logo with the title. "Freedom of speech is by no means freedom to insult others" from the Razorart goodbye letter. [This message has been edited by Rinswind 2th (edited 02-11-2003).]
fillow Bipolar (III) Inmate From: spain Insane since: Sep 2001	posted 02-11-2003 14:19 What is the best solution to show the page properly in both resolutions? Is there any way to solve this problem easily or do i have to rebuild the entire site? Thank you
Suho1004 Maniac (V) Inmate From: Seoul, Korea Insane since: Apr 2002	posted 02-11-2003 15:03 Well, your layout is pretty much locked in to 800x600 with the absolute positioning. You pretty much have two choices in the matter: 1) Stick with a fixed layout and just suck it up in terms of white space (maybe center the page), or 2) move to a fluid layout. Fluid layouts are a bit more difficult to work with, and it would require redoing the page. In your case, fixed layout might not be a bad idea. As I mentioned above, you might want to try centering to see how it looks at higher resolutions, but I'm not sure how it would go.
CPrompt Maniac (V) Inmate From: there...no..there..... Insane since: May 2001	posted 02-12-2003 19:43 Check out this topic in the :FAQ: That is a good way to design for any browser size. Later, C:\ ~Binary is best~
NoJive Maniac (V) Inmate From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001	posted 02-13-2003 01:59 In IE 5.0 it falls apart something terrible. Here's a screencap. Let me know when you've seen it...I'll take it down. CAn't take too many hits. http://members.shaw.ca/cbck/filo.jpg forgot .. resolution 1024x [This message has been edited by NoJive (edited 02-13-2003).]
fillow Bipolar (III) Inmate From: spain Insane since: Sep 2001	posted 02-13-2003 17:48 Thank you for coments. I think that is for your font size in browser. I am reading about how to make impossible to change font size. I think is something about style sheet. Thank you again.
Veneficuz Paranoid (IV) Inmate From: A graveyard of dreams Insane since: Mar 2001	posted 02-13-2003 22:08 You shouldn't count on disabling 'font size changing'. In the Mozilla browsers the user can change the font size no matter what you say about it. You should instead redo the page so that it looks good with all font sizes (within reason of course, a font size of 72px is hard to design for ). ' The only thing I don't like about the design is the logo. As Suho pointed out it is hard, almost impossible, to read. There are a couple of important things missing is your code. You do not have any beginning <html>-tag. That tag should be at the very beginning of the document, the only things that should come before that one is the Doctype declaration. The Doctype declaration is also missing from your page. The <title>-tags should be inside a couple of <head>-tags. In the <head>-tags you should also add a couple of <meta>-tags so the search engines will have some idea what your page is about. Most of your style declarations should also be moved to a separate stylesheet. This will both make the code easier to read and the page will load somewhat faster. The start of the html document should look something like this: code: <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> <html> <head> <title>this is my page</title> <meta type="keywords" content="keyword 1, keyword 2..."> <link rel="stylesheet" rel="nofollow" href="url/to/stylesheet.css"> </head> <body> ... _________________________ "There are 10 kinds of people; those who know binary, those who don't and those who start counting at zero" [This message has been edited by Veneficuz (edited 02-13-2003).]
fillow Bipolar (III) Inmate From: spain Insane since: Sep 2001	posted 02-13-2003 23:04 thx vene
frogstar Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate From: Salt Lake, Ut, USA Insane since: Feb 2003	posted 02-14-2003 05:15 I like the overall layout of the site. It's clean and such. I don't like the logo. The chosen font is impossible to read, it needs to stand out and be readable for the visitors. Try an new look in that dept.
Suho1004 Maniac (V) Inmate From: Seoul, Korea Insane since: Apr 2002	posted 02-14-2003 06:10 I can only agree with Venificuz's statement on font sizes, and in fact I want to add even more stress to his points if possible. As V said, it is impossible to permanently fix font sizes--and this is a good thing. The user should have control over how large the font is on his or her screen--after all, it is the user who has to read the site, right? The fact that your first thought when faced with this problem was to fix font sizes shows a serious flaw in your design philosophy. First of all, it is impossible to make a web site look exactly the same in every browser. Secondly, it is not the place of the designer to impose his or her will on hapless users. You must understand that everything but the structure and content of the site (in other words, "style" or "design") is only a suggestion and these suggestions may be ignored by user agents (for example, text browsers or PDAs/mobile phones, etc.). I would recommend an article called The Dao of Web Design as a bit of enlightening reading. While I'm not saying you should throw yourself headlong into John Allsopp's design philosophy, what he has to say should give you something to think about. The more I read and think about your site, the more I think you might want to look at starting this over with a different mindset. Right now you have a very specific image of what you want the website to look like, which is not bad in itself, but I don't think you are being flexible enough in your design. You need to let go a bit--don't try to nail everything down to the last pixel. As it stands, your design does not make much sense semantically, and it is focused more on presenting an exact design image rather than presenting logically structured content. Sorry if this is all rather harsh and sudden, but your comment on fixing font sizes just floored me. It is your site, though, and if anything I have said helps you, run with it. If not, just consider this the raving of a madman who's been away from his beloved shock therapy for too long. ;-) [Edit: Incidentally, you might also want to follow this thread from the CSS forum. They're discussing liquid design.] [This message has been edited by Suho1004 (edited 02-14-2003).]
fillow Bipolar (III) Inmate From: spain Insane since: Sep 2001	posted 02-14-2003 11:05 Thank you suho. I totally agree with you. My problem is that for the moment i dont know very much about code for liquid design, etc. I am very newbie. Of course, i will read those articles and i will try to learn more, because now i only know a bit (only a bit) about design ghraphics and i have to learn all about structure of a web site. I said fixing font size, because i have seen lots of web sites in wich u can´t change the sieze of the fonts, and i though everybody used that option. But if i don´t do that... how is possible everything fit properly when a visitor choose the biggest font size in his broser? Thank you again for your time and coments
Suho1004 Maniac (V) Inmate From: Seoul, Korea Insane since: Apr 2002	posted 02-14-2003 15:52 I'm glad you took my comments in the spirit they were intended, fillow. We're all still learning here, so don't feel too bad about it. I will say one thing... quote: how is possible everything fit properly when a visitor choose the biggest font size in his broser? With the design you've got there, it's not possible. That's why we need to think "outside the box"--you need to change your whole way of thinking about design, until it is no longer "how do I make the user see what I want them to see," but "how do I make this the best possible experience for the user." I'm not saying that you have to give up everything--you will obviously still have a certain amount of control over the design, especially in graphical user agents like most browsers--but there are somethings you'll have to let go of. Good luck in your quest for better design.

Topic: site review\$

Author

Thread

fillow
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: spain
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted 02-10-2003 11:47

Hello.
I have changed design of one site i built two months ago. It´s a shop for a friend.
I would like to know your opinion about colors, style, etc.

Thank you very much in advance.
www.fillow.com

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted 02-10-2003 14:51

The colors aren't bad--can't really go wrong with blue. The title font is another story, unless you don't care whether or not people actually read it or not. If I didn't know that the name of the shop was Fillow Sports, I would have had a hard time telling from the logo.

The NCAA link at the top is a few pixels higher than the other links--you might want to check that out.

fillow
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: spain
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted 02-11-2003 11:54

Thank you for coments suho

Rinswind 2th
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Den Haag: The Royal Residence
Insane since: Jul 2000

posted 02-11-2003 14:03

For what resolution is this made? 800*600?
i looked at it on 1024*768. On my screen it has o lot of white space on the right side.
While the nav buttons and links are very tight on each other on the left side. I think it's a little bit out of balance on a big screen. And an 1024*768 resolution is pretty common. I think when you could made the site scale it will be better. Also i have to agree the title is very hard to read. Try the F in the white circle on the side instead off the f in the title.... Then you maybe have to drop the logo on the site. This is not bad it's there twice already.
When you drop the big one you could also intergrade the logo with the title.

"Freedom of speech is by no means freedom to insult others" from the Razorart goodbye letter.

[This message has been edited by Rinswind 2th (edited 02-11-2003).]

fillow
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: spain
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted 02-11-2003 14:19

What is the best solution to show the page properly in both resolutions? Is there any way to solve this problem easily or do i have to rebuild the entire site?
Thank you

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted 02-11-2003 15:03

Well, your layout is pretty much locked in to 800x600 with the absolute positioning. You pretty much have two choices in the matter: 1) Stick with a fixed layout and just suck it up in terms of white space (maybe center the page), or 2) move to a fluid layout. Fluid layouts are a bit more difficult to work with, and it would require redoing the page.

In your case, fixed layout might not be a bad idea. As I mentioned above, you might want to try centering to see how it looks at higher resolutions, but I'm not sure how it would go.

CPrompt
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: there...no..there.....
Insane since: May 2001

posted 02-12-2003 19:43

Check out this topic in the :FAQ:

That is a good way to design for any browser size.

Later,

C:\

~Binary is best~

NoJive
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: The Land of one Headlight on.
Insane since: May 2001

posted 02-13-2003 01:59

In IE 5.0 it falls apart something terrible. Here's a screencap. Let me know when you've seen it...I'll take it down. CAn't take too many hits.
http://members.shaw.ca/cbck/filo.jpg

forgot .. resolution 1024x

[This message has been edited by NoJive (edited 02-13-2003).]

fillow
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: spain
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted 02-13-2003 17:48

Thank you for coments.

I think that is for your font size in browser. I am reading about how to make impossible to change font size.
I think is something about style sheet.

Thank you again.

Veneficuz
Paranoid (IV) Inmate

From: A graveyard of dreams
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted 02-13-2003 22:08

You shouldn't count on disabling 'font size changing'. In the Mozilla browsers the user can change the font size no matter what you say about it. You should instead redo the page so that it looks good with all font sizes (within reason of course, a font size of 72px is hard to design for ). '

The only thing I don't like about the design is the logo. As Suho pointed out it is hard, almost impossible, to read.

There are a couple of important things missing is your code. You do not have any beginning <html>-tag. That tag should be at the very beginning of the document, the only things that should come before that one is the Doctype declaration. The Doctype declaration is also missing from your page. The <title>-tags should be inside a couple of <head>-tags. In the <head>-tags you should also add a couple of <meta>-tags so the search engines will have some idea what your page is about.

Most of your style declarations should also be moved to a separate stylesheet. This will both make the code easier to read and the page will load somewhat faster.

The start of the html document should look something like this:

code:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"

   "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">



<html>

<head>

   <title>this is my page</title>

   <meta type="keywords" content="keyword 1, keyword 2...">



   <link rel="stylesheet" rel="nofollow" href="url/to/stylesheet.css">

</head>



<body>

...

_________________________
"There are 10 kinds of people; those who know binary, those who don't and those who start counting at zero"

[This message has been edited by Veneficuz (edited 02-13-2003).]

fillow
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: spain
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted 02-13-2003 23:04

thx vene

frogstar
Nervous Wreck (II) Inmate

From: Salt Lake, Ut, USA
Insane since: Feb 2003

posted 02-14-2003 05:15

I like the overall layout of the site. It's clean and such. I don't like the logo. The chosen font is impossible to read, it needs to stand out and be readable for the visitors. Try an new look in that dept.

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted 02-14-2003 06:10

I can only agree with Venificuz's statement on font sizes, and in fact I want to add even more stress to his points if possible. As V said, it is impossible to permanently fix font sizes--and this is a good thing. The user should have control over how large the font is on his or her screen--after all, it is the user who has to read the site, right?

The fact that your first thought when faced with this problem was to fix font sizes shows a serious flaw in your design philosophy. First of all, it is impossible to make a web site look exactly the same in every browser. Secondly, it is not the place of the designer to impose his or her will on hapless users. You must understand that everything but the structure and content of the site (in other words, "style" or "design") is only a suggestion and these suggestions may be ignored by user agents (for example, text browsers or PDAs/mobile phones, etc.).

I would recommend an article called The Dao of Web Design as a bit of enlightening reading. While I'm not saying you should throw yourself headlong into John Allsopp's design philosophy, what he has to say should give you something to think about.

The more I read and think about your site, the more I think you might want to look at starting this over with a different mindset. Right now you have a very specific image of what you want the website to look like, which is not bad in itself, but I don't think you are being flexible enough in your design. You need to let go a bit--don't try to nail everything down to the last pixel. As it stands, your design does not make much sense semantically, and it is focused more on presenting an exact design image rather than presenting logically structured content.

Sorry if this is all rather harsh and sudden, but your comment on fixing font sizes just floored me. It is your site, though, and if anything I have said helps you, run with it. If not, just consider this the raving of a madman who's been away from his beloved shock therapy for too long. ;-)

[Edit: Incidentally, you might also want to follow this thread from the CSS forum. They're discussing liquid design.]

[This message has been edited by Suho1004 (edited 02-14-2003).]

fillow
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: spain
Insane since: Sep 2001

posted 02-14-2003 11:05

Thank you suho.
I totally agree with you. My problem is that for the moment i dont know very much about code for liquid design, etc. I am very newbie.

Of course, i will read those articles and i will try to learn more, because now i only know a bit (only a bit) about design ghraphics and i have to learn all about structure of a web site.

I said fixing font size, because i have seen lots of web sites in wich u can´t change the sieze of the fonts, and i though everybody used that option.
But if i don´t do that... how is possible everything fit properly when a visitor choose the biggest font size in his broser?

Thank you again for your time and coments

Suho1004
Maniac (V) Inmate

From: Seoul, Korea
Insane since: Apr 2002

posted 02-14-2003 15:52

I'm glad you took my comments in the spirit they were intended, fillow. We're all still learning here, so don't feel too bad about it.

I will say one thing...

quote:
how is possible everything fit properly when a visitor choose the biggest font size in his broser?

With the design you've got there, it's not possible. That's why we need to think "outside the box"--you need to change your whole way of thinking about design, until it is no longer "how do I make the user see what I want them to see," but "how do I make this the best possible experience for the user." I'm not saying that you have to give up everything--you will obviously still have a certain amount of control over the design, especially in graphical user agents like most browsers--but there are somethings you'll have to let go of.

Good luck in your quest for better design.

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