Topic: Client site layout online ::: please review it.

I have a client who I have been working on their site for about two weeks now. I have the basic layout here http://www.caanh.net and it works fine. Mind you, not all the pages are up yet. The client wants a really simple layout. This is what I came up with. Thoughts?

thought 1) wow that logo and header are *huge*!!

thought 2) Tables just look terrible. loose the tables altogether as there is nothing there complicated enough to warrant their use, and they just look....bad.

thought 3) Flash?? for this? I would *really* be peeved if I came to this site and had to download flash and all just to see some simple buttons that I wouldn't know were flash in the first place...

thought 4) who squished the United Way logo? =)

Ok, now I'm sure that sounded harsh, but really, it's not. The logo takes up *way* too much screen real estate, the flash has gotta go - there's just no reason for it (and it's not a good idea to use a technology not everyone is going to have when there's no reason to), and the tables just make the site look like an old throwback 90's page

Aside from those issues (and those issues are two things: important, and easy to fix), the colors, layout, and general look and feel are just dandy.

DL-44 ::: Everything on there is what the client wanted, believe it or not. I did ahave a much better site up prior to this one that they hated. They wanted the logo bigger, a flash thing doing simple (stupid as far as I'm concerned) stuff and that. The client has only ever been used to someone working in Fronypage temples before the re mak. But this is exactly what they want. I personally have tried to change there minds. Maybe this thread would help. Thanks.

Heh...figures.

Perhaps you should tell them that if "simple" is what they are aiming for, they have certainly asked for overly complicated things. =)

{{edit - now that I am at work where I am stuck at 800x600, that page header takes up slightly more than half of my vertical screen space. ouch! }}

[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 06-13-2003).]

I am currently working on a 700 pixel wide page for this simple site. I think they saw something on some other site somewhere that was done with a little simple flash thing and though it would be good for theirs. I'm still trying to change their minds, but I'm dealing with a board of directors too, so I guess I'm stuck with this. Thanks for the review.

That seems to be a problem with smaller businesses and organizations. No respect for design or marketing. It's one of the thing that stinks about having to start out small.

Dude, it's your job to tell them their not in the position to make design descisions for you. Your the designer, your job is to design their site. Their job is to pay you so that you do your job well.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd sooner walk away from a client that thought they should dictate how I did my job.

If they say they want flash your reply should be: "Sure thing, rich multimedia content can be a great addition to your website. What kind of flash content did you want to deliver to your site viewers?"....

After a question like that, everyone will think twice about answering with "buttons" or "our telephone number".

if you're client is as clueless as you say they need help. AND they'd never notice if you used simple javascript rollovers in place of the Flash.

The blue in the left hand navigation is wrong.

nice background too ;-)

Jason

I agree. They gave me that background. Ha Ha. They must have found 2Advanced and figured they'd like some flash. 2Advanced, now that's flash, what I did is daft. Clients are odd people.

Dear lord, who are these people???

I would highly suggest giving them a lecture on copyright infringement as well....

oh man! Unless they were paying a good amount I think I may walk away from the job and take my files with me. Using that background is a bad idea. 2Advanced will not tolerate that I'm sure.

But, as for the site, DL has some great points. That logo is WAY too big!

The buttons may do better is the spanned the entire width. Right now they just kind of hang out in the middle. If they want them to be flash buttons, you can always make them do more than just a simple rollover and change the colors.

You have the phone number twice. Don't really see a need for that. Oh wait that's some funky scrolling flash thing. Nope, don't like it
But, you do have the address twice.

The menu on the side works, but either the font is not working for me or the font is just too big.

The site is clean but the size of the menu and the logos on the right side take away from the main text in the middle. The main text is the point of the site right? That should stand out more IMHO



Later,

C:\


~Binary is best~

I feel your pain with 'bad' clients. At the company I am working at, I have had to do some pretty horrible things because the clients want it, even if we advice against it. Including such horrible things as

- a water background image with a fixed tag (I dislike those most of the time), which looked like Soap and not water. I found about 3 or 4 better ones that they refused to go with.
- cheesy imbedded midi sounds that looped, no way to turn off
- wav files of loons calling on one page.. Thankfully they didnt want it looped, whew
- Crickits chirping onstop on a page for a camping website.

Right now, I need the money, but dont have the time/means/money to get my own thing going so working for these guys. With all due credit, they can do some good stuff, but their clients request alot of bad things which I am stuck doing with a shudder.

I'm just thankfull that most of the time i am doing backend programming/etc and generally out of the design/creative aspect.

Well, I have changed the background image and will be uploading the new version of the site. It's a little smaller in size, the logo is smaller, but the flash stuff stays. What's that? The customer knows best? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. The customer is probably the most mis informed person on the planet because they want simplicity. Simplicity is good, but when it borders on the studidity line then it's bad. If I was a client I would want the best damn site I could get. What is wrong with people? This particular company is funded by the government with grants, so I'm stuck with red tape and indesicion <---that's not speeled right. Anyway, I'll post when the new one is up.

mobmobmob maaaaaan, you keep blaming your client but it smells more and more like you don't want to get outside your comfort zone and do it right.

one more log for your fire, you'd better look into accessibility issues if this is government funded.

*grabs the popcorn, tho this movie's most likely ended*

Jason

Actually it's being uploaded tomorrow, the new version that is. It's a bit faster, the background is different and everythig has been optimised, somewhat. Actually I would love to get out of what I do, I have a bunch of great ideas, but, again, it's the client who wants it plan and simple. I don't mind really, I just wish they where a bit more flexible in letting me come up with varied design ideas. Believe me, I don't like doing simple, I like to be able to achieve a higher standard for myself, but I think people are afraid of a lot of complex site, simply because they want to to there and just click on what they know. I'm doing another site which deals with guns and stuff, and yesterday I had the owner over, he loves my ideas, but he said that I need to make it very evident to the user that they are suppose to click here there and everywhere, he said I basically need to hold there hand. I don't know, but that's what his clients are like I guess. I think it's time to move back home to Europe and work with people who have great ideas and aren't afraid to let loose on the web.

quote:

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but, again, it's the client who wants it plan and simple.

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And that's just fine. That's great in fact.

Here's the problem: what you've got there is not plain and simple. What is there is overly complicated to the point of being silly.

"plain and simple" and "flash buttons that don't need to be flash" are rather contradictory concepts.

If it were plain and simple, I'd be happy. But it is currently messy, very poorly accessible, uses flash where there should be none, and uses some pretty odd code.

Yup, I agree with DL...

You can have jaw dropping designs but if their hard to use as a "website" then their all for nothing really. That's not to say websites need to be boring, but you do need to keep in mind what the site's goals are.

Web design is visual communication on so many levels. The colours, the type, the images, all of it should work together to help communicate to the user what that website is about all the while the design should be helping to point them in the direction of the information their after. The "experience" of the website so to speak should be simple and pleasant.

Flash buttons that could work just as well as normal HTML/JavaScript rollovers complicate things for people without the flash plug-in. In fact, they make the site damn near un-usable. Pimping the phone number with animations is also a bad idea. Most users still access the internet with dialup connections and they don't have a second phone line. If they can't use the phone whilst their online shoving a phone number in their face is an insult. Furthermore, it kind of says that the site is fairly content-less and they shouldn't bother viewing the site and should just call with their questions instead.

As for the visual design, well, it?s a site about community but I don't see a single image of people. It might seem like a cliché but you really need something to smack the viewer in the face and say, hay, this is who we are! And a super sized logo just won't cut it I'm afraid.

If you argue points like these to your client I honestly can't see why they wouldn't agree to some changes. Make them want a website that works for *their* company rather than a website that works to be noticed through flashy web technologies and other gimmicks.

Take 2Advanced as an example. Their site is all about kicking arse with design in new media technologies and it says it well, but if you look at the work they've done for other clients, the multimedia aspects are a lot more low key and the design is well integrated into what the website is meant to be about.

Dracusis - thank you. The lack of a picture is something that has been incorporated into the new design, which is still being prepared. Today I had somewhat of a breakthough on the design ideas, they want the flash buttons to stay, no if and or butts. They have now been incorporated into the top graphic, with a mission statement, and the overall layout is slightly different. There are a bucnh of pics that will be incorporated into it also, and actually they didn't want pictures initially. Don't ask. I should be finished with the new design sometime this week. So as it stands right now, the site that is currently up there is old hat. Plus it's only there for them for the moment to view and make changes. The actual fully working site will hopefully be up the end of the week. Until then I'm not going to post on it, and will do so when it's up and working. Thanks everyone, really appreciate the feedback and comments.

im pretty sure it's spelt CALENDAR, no matter what country you're from.

very nice, sharp logo.

that's all for now.