Topic: Doc's Glass Tutorial year 2004...

Now, how reliable is layers (and the whole DHTML concept!) on future browsers?
For example: does The Doc's glass tutorial stand up for the next 2-3 browser-generations?
Did he update it for N6?

It's incredible the fact that if somebody - for example - makes 200 big layer-sites, and then they might not work on the next browsers.

PS.
What if they come up with a new browser every 3 months? Then what would you do?

Heh, only future will tell what will happen with DHTML, and other cool *gizmos*...

Don't have your hopes to high.... DHTML is great, but compatibility is and will most likely always be a problem. 2004? Nah.

Well, it seems that improvements have been made. I mean, we're all abuzz about the W3C standards and all, whereas if you had mentioned HTML standards a few years ago people would have laughed at you. DHTML is being supported by more and more browsers, although not very well by some, but we're getting there. Although DHTML may eventually become obsolete, I think it won't be too soon; we haven't passed the hump yet, things are still improving in this area.

DHTML obsolete? Replaced with what?

Or just deleted from us all?

Sounds like... well, I don't know realy!'

Why don't they kill Flash instead? Or at least arrest the bugger?

Ok. Here is my point of view: with the growing implementation of the W3C recommendations on next generation browsers (such as ns6 and ie55+), the creation of XHTML (a better HTML version, closest to the XML) and XDHTML, and the use of doms, I DO believe that DHTML is not dead at all. Browser sniffer? Comptatibility?Er... we are on the way to forget such words...

Never tried to make a page with DOM compatible javascript in it (getElementById(), aso)? You will be surprised with the results... same results, same look in IE5.5, NS6 and mozilla. No browser sniffing, no stupid tricks.
Same DHTML code, working perfectly.
Not nirvanana yet, hey, but a good start. A really good start.

IMHO I believe we are on the threshold of a new era... now, it's up to us to fight, think differently, download W3C specs and restart with the roots.

And DHTML will live.

you still have to sniff for some things between NS6 and IE eg, snagging browser dimensions, and do to do proper event capturing as examples, but the point is, its greatly reduced code compared to including code for NS4 into the equation.


----------------------
Eddie Traversa
DHTML NIRVANA
Multiple Award Winning Sites
Macromedia Resources & Various Other Goodies.
http://www.dhtmlnirvana.com/
--------------------------
Dynamic XHTML Developers Guide
Currently being written by Jeff Rouyer and little ol me
Let you know about a firm release date as soon as I know.
-----------------------------

Sure DHTML won't die, I didn't think that was the issue here. Will the DHTML that is being done now work in a few years - wasn't that the question? Well, I think DHTML will probably just keep on getting better and better, but with new compatibility issues which will mean re-coding older DHTML.

Yes, I started on the DHTML survivor issue, but then I saw answers deeper then
I aspected.
Didn't feel like opening a new thread with every turn in the material.

I have to mention that I'm new at this, I want to know what I'm going in to.
So far you have been giving real good info.

::::::::::::

Hm, I know they might mean well at the W3C and all, but I don't approve of this changing called evolution.
Why did'nt they just improve HTML with extra features without ripping it up from the roots?
If his XHTML will work and grow I'd see it as someone might create an MHTML...

I know I don't have your knowledge in this matter, but I can't get away from feeleing the crazyness.
At least Netscape and Explorer agrees on the name BROWSER, the Xbrowser might not be far away...

Why not ask FORD to invent the Xcar? No, they accept the *car* concept and keep the development running.

I'm talking like the man on the street, you guys are taking it from the Internet point of view. You like new things. As beeing great handler of the basics.

I love new things, but inserted in the normal life.
Improving.

Is the HTML realy so Jurasic it has to die?

Not a very intelligent move I must say.

But with this Internet beeing more war then peace,
I'm not surpriced.

I think the world jumped into the internet too fast (although I love it!). There wasn't a very good starting plan and so now we have problems like compatablity issues and new languages every 2 months. And the pace at which new technology on both the hardware and software side is evolving just compounds the problem. I think the W3C is a great idea, there needs to be order in this chaos. Hopefully Netscape, MS, and the others will pull their heads out of their asses and start implementing the standards better.

-D

You're right there, Drakkor.
I only want these W3C dudes to work for the people who already are living at the Internet. Not telling them to re-build everything just because they cannot find any good, improving solutions.

Actually, I would go further down: The inventor of the XHTML is just a civil, legal hacker who came up with something new.
His superior, though - if he have one! - should've kicked him out just for thinking about it, saying: "Make your own Internet!"


My prediction is that Internet will be divided in some way.
Everyone wants to rule, so we'll soon have 4-5 Internet on witch we'll have to get different access keys.

Impossible?

Nothing is.

Ack! I forgot all about the glass tutorial! Whoops! I know it doesn't work in Netscape 6.0, but it will, in about 30 minutesonce I get started. I started doing all of *my* browser sniffing right at the top of my files, and creating a series of variables that you put together to get the right syntax deep inside. If I did things the way I usually do it, I can sometime just add the four lines of code that say "I am Gecko" (NS6)

FLAMEhorse, you said "You like new things"? Trust me on this one, your average developer *hates* change, hates it with a passion! Sure, I wanna do new cool things, but I don't want to learn and re-learn everything I know every couple of months, and I *certainly* don't want to hear that I've been wasting my time these last 6 years! Change is different, therefore it is to be feared, it is feared, therfore it must be DESTROYED! (Paraphrase from an old SNL sketch, anyone remember it? Cavemen?)

Actually, if I can make this latest update to the newest DOM, which I only need to sweat with on my fancier pages, I should be good till 2004, methinks. I've already made the transition on a bunch of the pages, the really time consuming bit comes when I try and rescue some of my oldest cool things, they've needed a re-write for a while now, and I keep learning more, so the old code is UGLY, blech!

I'll go update the glass tute now, it should work in a bit for all browsers. (Ooh! I made the last changes to the ozonicLabs.com pages, adding a new metaphor to how to build calls to my <div>'s, and now it even works in MSIE4.x, all the way up to NS6.x! The web isn't going to change, and all browsers will always suck.)

Your pal, -doc-

OK, the glass tutorial now works in Netscape 6.0! What was that, like 5-6 minutes?

The web will be around for a long time. So will I.

Your pal, -doc-

Thanks for that one, Doc!

So at least the main part of the Internet heart won't need a transplant!
Fells good and safe.

And the magnific GlassTut lives stronger.
Actually, when I first saw it was amazed over the outstanding layer concept!!!
So much info on one single page!
I thougt: "Jeeeeesus! Who cares about the glass! Look at the layer code!"

It took a looooong time till I could handle that code!

And Thanks all you guys for good respons!

I do not look down on the glass, Doc.

I tryed to make it... But surrendered a long time ago...

Never got the hang of the last hardness fx that gave the material real glass look!

It is develish good pro thing!

And, as I said, I'm human!

Really, I just spend *way* too much time making little glass marbles, why do I do that? I feel like that guy in Rainman, me and my little glass bits, heh. Here's the latest from a one trick pony...

Your pal, -doc-

He-he!

I was out for awhile!

Just *that* hardness is what I think could be made only with a real photo!
There is a *reflection* that kills me!
I actually was thinking about it heavy style last night!
I told myself that this *reflextion-FX* SHOULD be possible to do without *tricks* (I know, tricks IS a part of the game, but still...)!
Now I'm just waiting for my brain to process the request!

And why are you doing them?
Admit you get a kick out of the results!
I know I would!

In this one I can almost see myself!
(Warning, if the designer get tooo good in making reflections he also has to make his own in every marble - or at least the reflection of the camera! He-he!)
I love the concept of mirrors...

Heh heh, here's the kicker, you can't really see *yourself*, but you can see *me*! I always love throwing some real subtle details into a pic, something that you can't quite make out but that your brain will interpret as the noise it's looking for. In this case it's a capture from one of my cam pix at that moment, with the saturation dropped to zero, flipped horizontally and spherized,, then screened onto the sphere at maybe 10-15%. Details! Love 'em!

Your pal, -doc-

Love it. This is suppose to be the *advance glass tutorials*.

Oh, man I'll try that!

And of cause you already thougt about the reflection thing!
One step ahead! (Or 84?)
He-he!


This reflections (or as you say: subtle details... that your brain will interpret as...) gives a new, magic dimension to the marble world.
I love that, when I sit there and think something is perfect and maaaaaaybe within reach, then suddenly it starts developing!

I love that, it's the humor of the Gods: The best can never be caught!
That pure secret should just be so attractive that the people see and love it's *light*, not its heart!

It is very much a question of philosophy behind the creation of something good.
Tech and skill can only take you that far.

Yesterday I tryed the fisrt etempts making a marble FX without photo...
Jeesus, not even close! Not even whitin this part of the galaxy!

BUT in trying I learned a few new tricks I NEVER would have discovered *on my own*!!
That means: your making of the marble on this page has improved my skill!
Just by trying to hunt it down!

Life is cool when it's kidding around!

everybody loves little glass marbles

very pretty Doc.