Topic: Asylum Team Project #1 "The Ripper Report"

OK we are up and running and will use this thread to keep you upto speed

So, let's see some proposals, ideas, etc...

well WS, why don't you state what you had in mind first off, then we can bounce back ideas and such using your ideas as a template


[This message has been edited by synax (edited 06-26-2002).]

Ok, (I assume you've read the FAQ, and have kept track from the project thread...)

Logo - Red, with the letters Ripperreport...thought of making the 'R' a little tattered...or maybe claws going through it...

uh-huh... That's exactly what I was thinking about. At least we're on the same page!

I've got an idea. I'll play with it for a bit this weekend and post the results here. I'd love to hear what the other graphics folks are thinking.

[This message has been edited by bodhi23 (edited 06-25-2002).]

So. . . yeah. Do we just come up with some logo ideas and post them here first? I'll check out the FAQ on it.

Later,
C:\


~Binary is best~

It seems easier to me for the team to make a decision about it that way, with several ideas in front of us. But if someone's got a better process for that, let's hear it...

nod post all ideas images here etc and we can bash them around here

Cool. I will work on some logo ideas this weekend. I'm doing stuff for Karl's page tonight.

Later,
C:\


~Binary is best~

the general discussion area for the team project as a whole is here:
http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum1/HTML/004822.html

so fire all graphics etc specifically about the ripperreport here into this thread



[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 06-25-2002).]

As ZOX is part of the team and he is our colour expert perhaps he might want to give us a few ideas about some good colours to be looking at

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

mmm.. yes. Zox, deep red isn't showing up well on dark brown. some ideas for better contrast?

Question: because I'm listed as HTML, does this mean I can't contribute to graphics either?

Well, maybe we should come up with a template for the logo...you know, a 'flat' Ripperreport sort of thing...I know they did that for the GN...it's an interesting idea...and then the individual graphicers could then play with it from there...And I don't think deep red is correct...a bit more 'vivid', but not flourescent (if you know what I mean...)

Incidently, Zox is a great choice for the colors...I'm all for it. I was thinking about a dark, rich brown...sort of like dark earth, or dark coffee...but Zox is really the expert here.

As for the main page...well, since information is the main part of the site...the center should be devoted to that (IMHO)...while the left side should be devoted to info on what we are and what we are not...this is, IMHO, imperitive to what the site stands for...a serious approach to rip prevention. Also, under that should come all copyright info and links to such...for that is the next place one would look. As for the Nav, well, having a 'Nav bar' across the center under the logo area would not be bad...but I'm open to suggestions here. The right side could be used for breaking news in the scene, maybe a shoutbox (or suchwhat) and anything else that comes to mind...a 'traditional' site approach, if you will.

We could go about it by making a 'diagram template'....you know, sort of like a rectangle (the whole page), which is then divided up into sections...this would give us an idea of how the HTML setup will have to look. Also, it would allow for easier changes, as the HTML/CSS would not yet be done...just the areas of the main page, allowing for easy changes...

And then the font...always a tough choice. Any suggestions? Verdana, maybe?

As for the dynamic portion...who is responsible for programing? And the back-end? Just questions...

Man, I'm really pumped on this one...

I'll repost the team list tomeaglescz posted in the first thread - its Tom's call who should do what job:

Coding (Client and server side): WarMage;Maninacan
Graphics: ZOX,Bodhi,POI
HTML:Synax/Veneficuz
Site Content:WebShamen,Beekay
Project management:tomeaglescz,Emperor

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I have to say...Red on brown, very ugly IMO.

Hey, you are talking about me!

As you might have noticed, my color page is not even working at the moment. (the host was moving to another server, and I am still waiting for the dns change to kick in)

As for the colors, I am sure all of you are just as good at judging that.

One version of dark brown is in fact just dark red, and this will match well with a brigther red color. I agree that red text on dark brown will not work very well, but both colors can still be used.

A common color scheme is to match a brigher red with white, black and perhaps a gray. And I think adding these colors to a dark red (brown) and a brigher red can look good.

Of course, it all depends on what feelings you want to induce with the colors. I think the bright colors againt a dark background (more contrast) can be to advantageus, as to say "these guys means business", instead of more mellow colors.

I have made two very preliminary ideas. Just to get things started. I am at work at the moment so I did not put much time into these. Especially since my lunch is over now and need to get back to work

Ok, here's a quick one just to give a visual on WS's suggestion. Again, I'm not a fan of the brown.

Ok, Mind you all, I'm playing with this at work, in between the other ordinary things that are going on.
Here's a little mock up that I have so far.

I used the yellow to bring the logo out from the background a little. I have plans for embellishment on this idea, but I thought I throw it out there to see where we might go from here. Feel free to rip, shread, beat, maul or anything else you feel like doing to the idea. Let's see what we can get out of it. Certainly we should not consider this item finished by any stretch of the imagination. It needs something else.

*slips back into the Lab, notices everyone else has also been hard at work*

Synax, I like the scratches on yours, but you are correct about that particular brown. It's not quite right.

Zox, your colors are much better that what I was thinking of. No wonder they said you was the color man!



[This message has been edited by bodhi23 (edited 06-25-2002).]

Here's another one, using ZOX's color scheme.


Alright, I'll take a breather and let some people discuss now

[This message has been edited by synax (edited 06-25-2002).]

synax - yer just busy busy busy aren't you...

ZOX: Nice work - I prefer the the first one as the eye is drawn to the content area.

synax & bodhi23: Nice work on the logo.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I think ZOX first color scheme is the better of the two as Emps said, the second one just doesn't feel right

_________________________
Anyone who has lost track of time when using a computer knows the propensity to dream, the urge to make dreams come true and the tendency to miss lunch.
- copied from the wall of cell 408 -

synax:
Clawmarks = good
Typography = terrible

Look for something chunkier, more bolded, filling more space between letters. What you have now is too spread out and "wispy". Plus I'd lose the serifs, they'll just draw away from the jagged quality of the rips.

Another thought might be to balance the word "report" at the end of "ripper" but running top to bottom, not left to right. Or bottom to top for that matter. Cleaner, saves a bit of room, and takes the emphasis off "report" so much. It'll seem more like a newsmag that way.

Typography was just the default that I had used the last time PS was used I'll use Impact like ZOX did. Chunky, as you said DG.

quote:

---

Another thought might be to balance the word "report" at the end of "ripper" but running top to bottom, not left to right. Or bottom to top for that matter. Cleaner, saves a bit of room, and takes the emphasis off "report" so much. It'll seem more like a newsmag that way

---

What do you mean? Have the word "report" underneath Ripper, or have it typed vertically? I don't understand.

All righty then. I'm checking in to say I'm still with y'all.

I've got content, eh? Well then it is my duty in that area to speak up about something ... All right, IMHO we as a team are heading right for all the bright shiny objects and zipping right by the meat of the project. What I mean is folks are excited about the logo, but not really overly concerned with everything else.

When I start on a site, I first figure out what the content is supposed to be, then I divide it up into sections and do a flowchart of pages. With that on the table, we can then see how big of a site we are talking about. Then it will be time to talk about site features, coding requirements, hardware concerns, etc. Then, and only then, will it be time to think of what graphics are needed to support and unify the whole. We need to analyze what we want the graphics to say about the site ... what look and feel the site will have (professional, relaxed, or whatever).

So, I am officially putting forth a motion that all graphic work be put on hold for the moment.

Secondly, the team leader needs to step away for a bit and put some careful thought into a timeline/workflow chart. Think about what needs to be done first and what follows that and what follows next, etc. Then publish the timeline/workflow chart and discuss it with the team. Make sure the team understands what is to happen and when. In other words, let's not get the cart before the horse ...

I think the logos are a perfect example of why we need to do all the above. Look at the logos for a moment. What will the site be about? I think it is about stealing graphics and such. In what way do the logos represent this? What in the world do claw marks have to do with it?! Nothing, IMHO. And why are we discussing color schemes right now? I think it is too early in the game to address that!

Let's circle the wagons and come up with a game plan. Team leader, your job is the hardest. You need to come up with a goal and then come up with the steps to move successfully towards that goal. Quite frankly, I have no desire to participate in a Chinese Fire Drill, folks.

If we put some serious thought into this, we will produce a GREAT website. If we just launch the ship without clear orders and hope all hands know the drill, then we are headed for frustration and disaster.

Anyone want to second my motion?

EDIT: The FAQ has the beginnings of a workflow chart. A lot of information is there, but that information needs to be organized, talked about, fleshed out, given priorities, etc. Tomeaglescz, that FAQ writeup is a very rough draft of the workflow chart. Take it and mold it into a game plan.

Cell Number: 494

[This message has been edited by BeeKay (edited 06-26-2002).]

There's a difference between getting something done and talking about getting something done. I'm all for doing up an HTML template and such, but there are things I need to know before getting started. I've added a few of you to my ICQ list (although I have yet to actually get in contact) and if you'd like to do the same my UIN is 9815609.

My reason for starting with the logo is that it's something I can work on without needing something from others. In order to start making an HTML template, I need to know what sections there will be, the content of those sections and how tom and/or WS want the overall layout of the site to work.

I agree that content should be first and foremost, but I don't think that's a reason to put aside any other aspects of the project if people are willing to work on them.

[This message has been edited by synax (edited 06-26-2002).]

Then you missed my point. How can we work on the logo if we haven't discussed a direction for it in the first place? Don't get me wrong ... I'm not trying to tick people off or take over ... I just want things to go smoothly.

In my experience, a team leader never just says "OK, go make some logos. I'm looking forward to what you come up with." Heck no! The team leader gives some direction as to what the logo is to mean and what message it is to convey. I remember reading a story about how the new logo for TNN was designed. It was a detailed and painstaking process with zillions of revisions. But it all started with some direction. Without talking about color or specific image ideas, it started with words and desired reactions and in what various mediums the logo would be used in ...

Just my 2 cents. I'll shut up now till some other folks poke their heads in here ...

Cell Number: 494

There are many different paths to enlightment - we all have different ways of doing things (I would tend to approach things in a similar way to BeeKay) and the important thing is that we end up with the best finished result possible. I'd suggest we sit tight and wait for Tom to give further guidance

Synax: I got your request and have approved it

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I agree with BeeKay, or at least to a certain degree.

I always try to start with the content, so I know what will be on the site, before I get started. Not so that I have every single word written, but so I have an idea of what will be on the page, and think about the best way to present it. - Which part will need special emphasis, and what is of less importance.

But I think that even more important than the content is to try to decide what the purpose of the site will be, and what feelings it should convey. Fun? Serious? Hip? Professional? Cool? Simplistic? Unobtrusive? etc.
And based on this I start with the design. And in this process, I think selecting the colors is the first thing to do.

I do think that in a project like this it is possible to work parallell in some ways.
The structure and direction needs to be decided first, but then it is possible for the graphic people and content people to work side by side.

Good work on the logos so far. I guess my personal taste is probably a bit more conservative, but again, the look of the logo is all depended on what feeling we want it to convey.
On a site like this, which is all about the content, I think simple is often better when it comes to the graphics.

I think this will be fun

Yes. Good point BeeKay...Tom? What's your thoughts on this?

@ Zox...man, great color scheme! I really like the first one...

As for the graphics...yes, I like the direction it is going...nice to see DG giving tips...

why did I 'throw' the logo out there? Well, I know what it is like, being a graphiker myself on many projects...one sits, and waits...I thought I'd give the graphikers something to chew on while we get the colors, content, layout, etc formed up. That removes the 'preliminary work on the graphikers...they now have an idea where it could go, and the initial problems can be rapidly overcome. Yes, I knew before hand that it was mostly just an exercise, and that the logo could change form...but seeing something helps immensely, and inspires...good preliminary work, I might add...listen to DG, he's got good ideas, and lots of experience in the area...and please, don't piss him off...thanks for the tips, DG, more would be welcome...

Getting busy on content...I'll be adding more as the day progresses...

Tom, maybe a flow chart on the design process? Sort of like the Doc did (outpatient forum) maybe?

All in all, this thing is coming together...great work, everybody! Now if I could just get this peacepipe out of my behind...

wooo, i finish early one day and it gets busy all of a sudden Hey guys nice work!

OK let me try and tackle some of your questions

1.Beekay is right about content and aims this has to be done first.

so. here is how i see an outline for the site as far as content goes

The Public Area (General Viewing)

1.Who is behind the ripper report and why and what is the ripper report
2.Its mission staement
3.form for submitting potential rips to the ripper report
4.a follow up on investigations that the site has undertaken
5.A guide on how to protect your work (things such as how to prove prior knoweledge etc.)
6.general tips on what to do if you think your work has been ripped off.
7.some legal disclaimers etc.
8. a place where people could lodge copyrighted material (future part of site maybe)

the team area (password protected)

now this is the day to day meat of the site and will take the longest to do

we need.

1.a forum/bbs where discussions etc can take place on each investigation
2.a database holding all information of ripped material in case of re-appearance
3.a database of known rippers etc.
4.guidelines of what to do under what circumstances.
5.legal guidelines so our asses are covered in cases like people saying we have maligned their character by calling them a ripper etc.

feel free to add to this list with any great ideas

now my approach to this is for the team to agree on the content etc, i can then produce a flow chart for the site, now for one i am all for template based sites as it makes for easier updates etc. At the moment we still havent 100% agreed or understood the exact nature of the site and its contents, so lets get that buried first, remember the stuff that you go through when you actually work for a client:

1.Get his requirements
2.produce a spec for the site
3.do draught interface design with dummy links etc so the client can get a feel for the site's looks
4.build content
5.lastly put the whole thing together.

now the guys doing the backend work need to know what programming scripting support the hosting company provides for example, this needs to be addressed so WS if you can let me know that

The graphics team need to start playing with concepts that will be easily manipulated by the html team, once we have got all the content decided as in what goes on which pages the actual interface can be started on..

this is a big project and could easily fall into chaos if not planned first.. I want to try if possible to keep the team as is, i.e. what ya listed as doing please stick to unless ya come upo with something really earth shattering, next project you will be working on something different

So let's get the content decided on i will put a flow chart for the site up then, aswell as a timeline for the project etc.

What I want to avoid is exactly whats happened here, but thats to be expected on a first run, everyone is keen and i am really happy about it, but this could get very chaotic very quickly, lets take a deep breath, pause and look at what the site needs, and then we can tackle it.

ok sorry for the long post and the delay in responding to it, if at all possible i want to get the content bashed out as far as what is going where and what we want exactly by friday, now after that i am on holliday for a few weeks, i havent had a break from work in 9 months . but i will put the flow chart etc together in that time.

ok i probably failed to address some things here but i think i have covered most of the key areas...

so guys look through my thoughts on the public and private area and think if there is something i have missed...i'm only human don't forget this is a team project we will all be counting on each other....

cheers tom

Ok, thanks for the heads up Tom...

As for the back-end...well, I believe we will be working with MySQL...as for the programming code...I'm not sure...PHP? This is really out of my league...I do know that we need a dynamic 'front door' so to speak...so that the information can be updated quickly from maybe a DB?

Also, we need to decide on what kind of forum we wish to go with (ubb, etc)...that, in turn (when I'm reading this right) will help in deciding how the rest of it could be done...

So which parts are dynamic? Well, mostly the 'ripper' information, and the news...(new laws, etc). The site policy, and who we are (and what we are not) should remain static...as well as copyright material and links...

We also need a search engine function...that just occured to me...so that people can do searches on rippers, etc. That should also (IMHO) be on the front page...probably also in the lefthand column...

And, of course, the disclaimer...I believe we need that for protection purposes...I will be adding law insurance (internet) to my bills for this *sigh* so that, in the case we have to go to court, it will be covered...that will remove the threat of lawsuit action against us...(and with what I've seen on the pixel police site, it occurs rather often, at least the threat thereof).

I am getting to work on the who and why and the mission statement.

Have I missed anything?

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 06-26-2002).]

Ok, here is a preliminary WHO WE ARE AND WHY...please, critique!

Welcome to the RipperReport. As the net continues to grow, more and more artists
and designers have left their mark on it. New ideas spring up, spread, only to be
replaced by newer ones. As Big Business has not only started to get interested, but
also becomes a main part of the net, we entered a new phase, one of money, time, brands
and ownership. Because of this, competiton has increased, and deadlines and budgets are
tight. This is a normal process, even though most might say it is unwanted. The net is
losing its lawlessness as more and more 'discover' the net...

However, many people have began to resort to using other peoples ideas, designs and graphics
without permission, which is illegal. Currently, this type of 'ripping' has devolped into
a trend, one with damaging consequences to all. Not only are artists and designers affected
by this, but also businesses. Many professionals have put a lot of time and effort into their
work (not to mention the time and effort it takes to develope the skills), only to see their
creations, ideas, and artwork being blatently used by others without permission, or even credit.

Before, one could not really protect oneself against such threats. There were no laws, and
it was very easy for the perpetrators to just ignore someones complaints. But now there are
laws, and there are many communities out there, who are willing to protect its memebers. However,
these communities are isolated, and though rightly able to police their own members against
such criminals, it is a growing problem of criminals who are stealing that are not members of
such communities. Also, the size of the net has become so large, that such criminal activity
can go almost unnoticed, and the problem has become one of such epic proportions, that single
communities are being overwhelmed with the size and mass of the problem. Also, information is
not being shared between the communities, thus making the tracking of new and repeat offenders
difficult, if not impossible. And that is where we come in.

The RipperReport is conglomerate project devoted to bringing communities together for protection
means against this current trend, and for the spreading of information in the net on such criminals.

We are all professionals, who have time and again dealt with this problem, from small in-community
ripping, to full-blown, whole site stealing. In each instance, it has become apparent, that
though laws against such criminal acts are in place, very few actually care (or even know that
they are stealing). A few were even proud of their actions, and were somewhat annoyed with
our attempts to set things to right. It quickly became evident of the enormous amount of time
and effort it takes to persue such criminals and to actually prove each case in question. But
it didn't just end there. After collecting proof, then begins the process of gathering support
against the perp in an attempt to get them to remove the said stolen material. Here we met with
very stout disbelief, and had to prove our case time and again, before anyone would even bother
with such things.

In the light of such difficulties, considering that we are victims and not perpetrators, we decided
to change that, to do something about it. And that is how the RipperReport was born.

Shaping up nicely here - things seem to be seetling out into some general areas:

Who we are (what this is and what it isn't)

Information Area (what to do if you are ripped or think there has been a potential rip, information on copyright, stuff on making ripping more difficult [the right and wrong ways], etc.).

The Ripper Report (where evidence of persistent offenders is collected).

A Discussion Area (if you are using PHP/MySQL then one of the UBB clones like PHPBB will be fine).

A News Section (to provide a dynamically updated front page)

Anything else I've missed? Getting the sections sorted means we can get an idea of the site structure, the navigation, sections people need to work on, etc. and it is looking good from here

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

One other area I think could be useful is to more detailed definition of what a rip is.

What is just "inspired by" as oppose to ripped.
Can a color scheme be ripped? a piece of code? text? images? etc.
There seems to be misconceptions in both directions on this
- people yelling "ripper!" for sites which are inspired by, but not exact copies of others
- rippers arguing "but I did not use his graphics!" (they only made an *exact* copy of it)

This can also be combined with more information on copyright, since that's really what it is.

[This message has been edited by ZOX (edited 06-26-2002).]

Zox, read this http://www.whatiscopyright.org/ in answer to your questions...I'll be contacting the webmaster of this material...I want it on this site! If I can't get it, then at least a link...it's some of the best stuff I've seen on copyright on the net...

Ok, it looks like we're headed into the right direction then. I'll miss not being able to do graphics, but I'll just work that much harder on the (X)HTML I've read through all the posts and it sounds good. Anxiously awaiting a flow chart of some sort so we have one solid "list" to look at and check things off as we complete them. I wish some of you (Emps, WS, tom, veneficuz) would actually use ICQ

I use ICQ...I believe my number is under my info here...however, as I am in Germany, it's very difficult to be 'online' at the same time as you all are...I do most of this from work, and I don't have ICQ there (but I do at home).

Boy Howdy! A lot got posted in 24 hours! I think the idea of getting us started on the logo first was just a way for us to get our feet wet while we figured out what the heck was supposed to be going on. It got us all thinking about the image of the site, right? Works for me...
The shreds and the claw marks were, I believe, intended to convey the whole "ripping" idea... 'Cause that's what I thought about when I heard the name. But no one says it has to be that way.

Since we've gotten started and I'm looking at the vastness that this site is becoming, and I'm looking at my schedule and my current projects, (of which this makes 3, plus a full-time job and family) I think I'm going to have to back off a little. I'd like to sort of shadow the graphics team, because this is sort of On-the-Job training for me. I'd love to be able to keep up with the progress, and maybe share input, and of course ask questions, but I don't want to hold up the process because I don't quite know what I'm doing.
I'm excited about the learning possibilities of a project like this, and thought I would have time to get in on it, but I know I want to devote more than 1/16th of my time to it, and I don't think it would be fair to you guys for me to give you less attention than you deserve. But if you're all agreeable, I'd love to observe the whole project and see exactly what goes into this whole business. Thanks for including me in the first place!

bodhi, dont worry everyone is in the same boat, we dont expect everyone to devote masses of time to this, if you still want to contribute that's great by me and after seeing some of ya stuff so far i think that even a small time will go a long way . That said if you want to shadow or help the graphics team feel free to do so, this is a volunteer project so do what ever feels right for you.

tom

synax: I've usually got ICQ running as long as I've got a computer switched on. However, so I can get some work done I'm invisible. If anyone needs me drop me a line and if I'm around I'll get back to you asap

bodhi: I must say that ripper brings Jack the Ripper to mind for me - foggy London streets and a sinister man in a cape with a doctors bag lurking in the shadows ready to pounce

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Tom, thanks. That takes a load off. I'm afraid I'll have to let the bulk of the graphics fall on Zox and synax at this time around. But I do want to watch the process and offer some input. I just don't want to spread myself too thin, if ya know what I mean...

Emps - hmm... yeah, it could go that way too... creepy!

Sorry, but I gotta disagree with the whole ripper image thing discussed so far. Once again, what do claw marks have to do with stealing graphics? The icon/logo should be more about theft, catching a thief, stealing, etc. Have an icon with a faded out copy of it underneath to represent lifting a graphic from the original. That's the first thing that came to my mind. I suggest not letting the name "ripper" distract from the meaning we are actually shooting for.

Tonight I will take a closer look at the content example WS posted and see what I can contribute along those lines. Tom, what do you envision my role in 'content' being? Writing text? Anything else?

Cell Number: 494

BeeKay -
You make a good point about the logo. That's actually the reason I had asked WS if he had any preconceived notions as to what the logo ought to be. Considering we hadn't even gotten into the content bit of it yesterday. Cart before the horse, as you say... But it appears that the team is regrouping and getting organized at this point now, so likely, the logo would have been reworked anyway to fit in better.

I like the double image idea, that'd be cool...

(I'm pretty sure we were joking about the whole "Jack the Ripper" bit...)

[This message has been edited by bodhi23 (edited 06-26-2002).]

bodhi23: I don't joke. If someone is thinking of working disembowelled prositutes into the design then it would probably be a good idea not to go down that path.

Although synax has done a nice job with that rip effect (which also gives the idea that stuff is being ripped from the page) there isn't any reason why we should be so literal - we could concentrate on the report theme (ZOX's design, with the iatliced text, gives some feeling of a report).

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Disembowelled prostitutes? um... no. But the more I think about it, the shadowy figure could work well into the whole "thief in the night" idea.

But since we're being serious, probably Zox's idea is the best way to go. I think in this case, the content of the site is going to be much more important than the graphics, due to the very nature of the site. But I'll go back to the shadows myself and see how it all unfolds now.

Hmmm...hidden in a pool of show, a shillouhette, with only the glint of the eyes, the light of the cigarrette and the moonlight reflecting off the scalpel blade to give away his presence.

Koan 63, written on the wall of cell number 250:
Those who Believe
Can
Those who Try
Do
Those who Love
Live

Hi folks well i see you have all been busy again

OK....

Here's my 0.2

1.The rip fx on logo i dont think looks professional i like some of the other ideas being put forward.
2.Beekay with your experience in writing content, i was hoping that you could shape what ws has has to say into the actual wording that will appear on the site, so as far as content goes i mean the actuall text that will appear so you need to work closely with WS on this.
3.Zox and the rest of the graphic guys start looking towards building a mock up front page using the colours that we are working with at the moment, the areas will be along the lines of those that emps put forward.

there will be two distinct areas to the site one private for those involved in the project and one public for info and reporting rips so ya need to think about this too, ie login form on page.

4.the programming guys you need to start to think about how we are going to create the databases and forums etc and then drop the info into the templates that the graphics team produces, so talk to each other so that you can give each other what can and cant e done easily.

i am on holliday from close of business today but to give you a rough game plan so you can start to mould things together this is how i see the site area by area.

front page.

1.on load mission text that should appear is who we are what we are doing and why?
2.login for private area.
3.links to the following

ripper report.

information center
(form to report a rip)
(copyright info and how to protect your work)
(Steps and guidelines if ripped or see rips)

4.private area

Forum/discussion area
admin center (ie add new news and info)

this is a tie up of all the suggestions so far feel free to add comments or further topics.

so this will give you the basic navigation, dont forget that a lot of information will be dynamic so keep the pages like news sections ripper report template based using SSI's etc.

I will check in as often as i can on how things are going but you guys have Emps in the background who also has a hell of a lot of project management experience, listen to what he has to say, he will give you great sound and straight dpwn the line advice.

WS/Emps has everyone involved in the team now got a username and password for the site?

Remember guys this for some is a first team project, it can get crazy it can get confusing and sometimes damn frustrating, but when you see all the little bits start to come together its amazing.

Sorry to leave you guys at such an early stage but this is about the only time i can see me actually getting sometime off this side of christmas, i already had to cancel my visit home to england.

OK try and get any burning questions fired into here asap if they need to be addressed by me as i will do my best to answer them before i leave.

Thanks again everyone for the time and effort and commitment you are putting into this.

AND one more thing leave the knives at home.....

*peers into the mist*

Thanks Tom...we'll miss you, buddy. Have fun.

Ok, troops, I'm in a really ugly mood at the moment...I need some time to get my emotions straight...

Please consider what Tom has said...

Beekay, you can mail me anytime you like, regarding questions, tips, etc.

Well, all in all, I'm very satisfied with what has come out so far...I think this team has great potential...keep up the good work.

tomeaglescz: Hope you have a good holiday - that should enough to keep the project rolling along happily.

I would like to see the coders pop their heads in - WarMage I think you should be lead coder on this given your experience if you are OK with that? I suppose the first step would be to identify the main areas that need work - off the top of my head there is the forum, some JavaScript rollovers probably, some includes and a user authentication system to separtae a work side from a public side (I presume this can be plumbed into the forum?). Any other thoughts?

WS: I presume people contact you for the FTP details?

To the graphics people: Just have a play around with ideas (for logos, layouts, buttons, etc.) - it might be best if you uploaded them to site.

Any other ideas?

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Ok, Emps, I'm all for that...I've got the ftp stuff (and so does Tom...). For ftp access, please use this mail address michael.hamilton@sap.com

This is a serious mail address...so don't use it to BS...otherwise I'll start blocking mails...if you want to BS, etc, use my normal mail under my info...

Let'er rip!!!!

So just to clear something up, we're going for a professional look, right? Not casual or sarcastic, etc? Clean, wholesome fun?

hmm...
Am I supposed to upload any graphic ideas to the site? How do I do that?

This is just a very simple first sketch. It is a fairly clean, rather cliche design, based on the little color scheme thing I made.
Not sure I like the graphic to the right, but I kept it because it made me curious - would this be considered to be a sort of "rip" of IE? Since it is from an IE screenshot. Just curious.

As I said, very simple, and just a first idea.
http://www.webwhirlers.com/rr3.gif

Orders received, sir!

This weekend I will take a look at what WS posted and do some editing. I then will rough up some thoughts about other pages and shoot them out to WS for his consideration.

Things moving along nicely .... good to go!

Cell Number: 494

Hey ZOX, I like the idea of the "Save Target As..." screenshot in the title. We could also include the "Print Screen" button or something too

synax: I don't think we are ruling too much out at the moment so have a play with a few ideas and themes.

ZOX: That link doesn't seem to work.

Anyway if people have ideas then they can upload their sketches, etc. to the site (email WS for the FTP details using the address he gives above). I have created a folder for you all to drop stuff into (I've added the images that have already been posted here):
www.ripperreport.com/graphics/

Beekay: Thats exactly what we are looking for - the wording of things will be very important.

Keep up the good work.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Oh Jesus.

Cooks.

Broth.


Okee boys and girls, it goes like this: Team Project or not, you're going to need team leaders.

1) Managerial - A small group overseeing the entire site so as to collate properly and keep the teams running syncruently. One IA is usually nice, but the politics of "boss" need to be left by the wayside. People should listen to the Managerial staff and add where possible, but not sit around infighting because they want more credit. The Managerial needs to have clear vision and scope and understand how to deal with people while not losing sight of the goal, and constantly keeping in touch with each team and team leader.

2) Backend functionality - putting together a group of coders to deal with the server-side and dynamic aspects of the site itself. The Backend boys (sounds a bit...sketchy) need to be focusing on all the functionality that the Managerial staff is looking to implement. Everyone has a voice, but consider the chain on this one so as not to bog yourselves down in too much "funky new experimental" shit, and lose sight of the goal.

3) Markup - another team focused only on the markup. It would be nice to be able to institute a site that sticks to standards, and degrades well so that there's no browser issues or platform faults. The markup team needs to work close with the graphics geeks to try and get it all in, but shouldn't have a problem saying "this is too much...but we could do this.."

4) Frontend - The last team is working on the graphical disply and design. There needs to be a bit of a liaison with the markup kids here as well as some idea tossing between them and the backend folks, but all in all these guys are in charge of the look. Doing mockup designs is fine, keeping in mind that fluidity, simplicity, colour palettes, usability, and function within form are all issues that need to be met. Focusing on a logo is nice, but it needs focus, not just running around aimlessly and trying to be the "winner". The design team needs an experienced leader who knows what he/she is actually there for, instead of trying to make it "so cool". The designers working with him have to be able to listen, add, and still execute without a lot of whining or dependence on trying to be "the winner" yet again.

A team project isn't about individual merit, and it sure as fuck isn't about being the big man on campus, or strewing twenty chiefs amongst no braves.

Think about it guys, give it some real thought and structure before jumping. Many a dead site lay in the ruins of bad team planning and lack of organization by trying to make "everyone feel equally important"...bollocks.


Peter

Would an acceptable idea be to create three or four separate threads so that each team has their own 'conference room?' I can see graphics, backend, content, etc. conversations getting tangled and confused if restricted to one thread.

Good points DarkGarden. But how feasible is your input based on the small number of people we have working on this particular project?

Cell Number: 494

Beekay: Its perfectly feasible DG, as usual, speaks the truth. As long as you've got a few people you can start diviidng jobs up. Luckily Tom has already drawn up the list before starting this thread (and I reposted it above):

Coding (Client and server side): WarMage;Maninacan
Graphics: ZOX,Bodhi,POI
HTML:Synax/Veneficuz
Site Content:WebShamen,Beekay
Project management:tomeaglescz,Emperor

Tom's leading and I'm making sure things tick over in his absence.

Clearly WS is leading the content area with plenty of input from Beekay.

I've asked WarMage to lead the coding (PHP/JavaScript) and identify the jobs that are needed (suggestions above). I would like the coding guys to stick their noses in to confirm they are on the job though. I've asked WS to check that the MySQL database is up and running so it is ready to go.

Graphics and HTML are on the backburner and I'm just looking for people to throw in ideas and their thoughts on the layout. I would like ZOX to headup the graphics team as I know his work better

[edit: As we are in the very earilest stages of the project (we are still waiting for 3 team members to poke their noses in - I will be emailling people tomorrow if they still haven't turned up) I'm quite happy to have a little brainstorming session with people throwing in ideas and thoughts before we really knuckle down and start assigning clearly defined roles]

DG is right that we need to make some decisions on the HTML/CSS even if we aren't going to start throwing that aspect together quite yet. The basic question is should we go for a CSS-only design or throw a table or two in to keep older browsers happy. My general feeling is that we will be getting a wide range of people visitng and that we should make it look as good in NS4.x as it does in other browsers. Thoughts?

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Well we can try to make a CSS only site, working with as few tables as possible, or we can mix it up. What if we make seperate templates for seperate browsers? Since everything will be updated dynamically, and using SSIs this is possible. Just a suggestion.

synax: I think we should avoid that as much as possible - as far as I'm concerned we either go for a standards compliant design and make it degrade in older browsers or we throw a table or two into the design. I really don't want to be dealing with different templates for different browsers.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

ok then, that's settled Now we need to decide on a layout so veneficuz and I can bang out the markup for it.

synax: I like that entusiasm However, we should hold off on the HTML/CSS for the moment until we have colours, layout and 'feel' finalised (or close to anyway). My advice would be to throw some sketches and ideas in on the general layout/logo ideas.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

OK I've had a bit of a chat with synax which raised a couple of points:

1. We'll be aiming at a XHTML transitional DOCTYPE

2. synax proposed a XML news/data feed so that other sites could have updated information but I suggested we should wait and see - hopefully we should be able to sort a lot of things out quietly without making a big fuss but it depends on traffic. Something to bear in mind.

Beekay: A further thought I had was that it might be a good idea if you drew together a short list of keywords we want to hit and we can make sure they are in the metatags and sprinkled throughout the text.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

First of all, a big thanks to DG...his advice is very sound (IMHO).

As for the site itself, yes, it's serious...and should reflect the serious nature thereof. Why? Because of the central 'theme', if you will. If we do not approach the 'ripping' problem seriously, and professionally, we will end up in trouble quickly. Also, we need to be taken seriously by the many different communities. Consider that the information that will be provided is of a very serious nature, and if done improperly, can have devastating reprecussions. We have all seen what can happen with such things...I think the Eyeball-design thing is a very good example of what can go wrong...and such things must be avoided at all costs...

Emps has the lowdown on the compatibility issue...

I will be waiting for BeeKay's reply, and will be working closely with him on the content...looking forward to 'jamming' with the Jar head...just kidding!. Seriously, it will be a great honor to work with him.

As Emps said, I'm looking to get the mySQL thing on the boards...I will try to get it activated as soon as possible. Thanks, Emps, for the heads up.

For the others...you can either drop me or Emps a mail for the logon...we both have it, now.

In conclusion, yes folks, it's coming together. As we form together into a team, it just gets better and better. Nice to see that we are shaping up into a professional group. Let's keep up the good work, everyone! Onwards!

Ok, the mySQL databank is now up and going...wow, that was fast! For those needing to access it, please drop me (or Emps) a mail, I'll send the instructions and the password...(or he will)


[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 06-28-2002).]

For some reason, I thought synax was on the graphics team.... my mistake!


If POI doesn't poke his head in, and/or is no longer interested, I will be more than happy to take a more active role in the graphics side so that ZOX doesn't have to work it all up by his lonesome. Zox, I'm still learning, so lead on! and I will follow...

Different threads might be a good idea, but it might be just as easy to have the different teams communicate with each other by email directly, and then post collective ideas back here. Since graphics is on the back burner for now, I may have some time to clean up my current projects and free up for this one! Valuable experience, it is...

Uhhh...bohdi, you are on the graphics team...

quote:

---

Graphics: ZOX,Bodhi,POI

---

Ok, let's get organized, and get going!

I'll be pretty hard to reach over the weekend...so please use my 'normal' mail address (rawn_phoenix@web.de) for anything on the weekend...

*the furthest my involvement into this project will be*

you all should probably have a long hard look at http://www.cert.org/ . Not the design (cause it's kinda pukey), but the manner in which they disseminate information and find answers.. they've got a real working formula there...


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

Thanks Petskull...I'm looking at it now...

nah, I'm not on the graphics team, just slightly overzealous

OK we are still looking for the following to stick their noses in here and say if they are onboard or not:

WarMage
maninacan
POI

I'll leave it a few hours and then I'll email people to check to see if they are onboard - I'd like to know where the team stands by tomorrow and if committments mean you have to step out of this project then thats fine but I will need to know so I can bring replacements into the team.

I'd also like to confirm what IM service people are on:

Me: ICQ (although I have Trillian installed if we are on different services)
Synax: ICQ
Veneficuz: ICQ
WarMage: ICQ
Webshaman: ICQ

Make sure your profiles here are up to date as once things get moving we might need to move to IM to thrash ideas out quickly.

[edit: Added WM and WS to list of IM]

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

WS, I had asked a day or so ago that I be allowed to be a background participant as I've not a lot of experience here. (see above) But, if POI, who hasn't stuck his nose in yet, is not going to be involved, or is less involved than I had intended to be, then I didn't want Zox to have to work on all the graphics alone.

I used to be on ICQ, but don't stay online enough in the evenings to have justified installing it when I built my new system. I am connected to the internet from 8-5 US/EST during work hours and check my email frequently during the day. I have updated my profile so that you guys can read it now. Sorry about that.


[This message has been edited by bodhi23 (edited 06-28-2002).]

synax et al: For what I was saying about the typography, this was basically what I was getting at...



The placement and blocking of your lettering is very important. Now whatever "effects" you want afterwards are really personal choice, but typography is very important. I used Impact for the example, but anything solid with good letter weight will convey the serious attitude and professional scheme. Try juggling your words around to show the importance of each in the phrasing.

As for your "logo" dilemma: I always have the same stock answer. Make something simplistic, recognizable, that can be broken down to minimal colours and lineart if possible.

blah blah blah.

DG: Very nice indeed - simple yet effective

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Thanks DG...a picture is worth a thousand words...and you have a very good way of doing pictures...someday, someday...*sigh* Pssst! Bring back the Path!

Ok, folks, DG has shown us something not only interesting, but important...let's see where we can go from there...

bodhi23: You are either in or out We will need 3 graphics people on board - there will be customising the message board, etc. Its fine if you only want a minor role but I'm confident that we'll find plenty of things for you to do and that you'll be up to the job

WS: DG has certainly set a high standard - it should prove a nice challenge for everyone

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

OK emails have been sent to our missing team mates - if we still haven't heard anything in 24 hours then I'm going to have to get some replacements in. The ideas are starting to become better defined and I want to start turning things up a notch in the next day or so so its is vital that we have the team confirmed (we really need to start work on the actually coding asap).

Keep thrwoing ideas and thoughts in while we are in the early stages and then we can start defining people's roles more clearly.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Nah..Path is dead for the foreseeable future. Not interested in life on/in the box.


Back to the meat of the matter: The typography was just an example. I think it can be taken to a higher-class level and integrated with a good logo. If Zox wants to contact me in regards to the typog at any point, he should feel free. I think with the level of exposure you want here, concentrating on clean code, clean design, and less fluff in the graphic department is intrinsic.

KISS

Sorry for not poking in sooner.

I don't get to check out all of the board often. When I get my 10 minutes I tend to just pop into Server Side Coding and see what I can do in there.

Ok, so... PHP/JavaScript...

There are a bunch of ideas floating around out there. So lets hit the actual areas that will need some attention. What type of content are we providing, what kinds of personal interaction will we need.

I really liked the XML idea for sending off our content to other sites, however, I think we need to worry about the current site's data before we go mucking around with giving other sites this data.

So...

I think that some of the content people should be throwing me off an e-mail telling me what type of content they will want to present. Along with what type of content we would like to get from the visitors (i.e. data collecting).

The managers will also need to give me some input on the direction we will be taking with the template system, as in how can I make your life easier.

I don't have huge blocks of time right now. So I can not say I will be popping my head in here every couple of hours. But if you would be so kind as to give me the specs in my email I am sure I could draft up some stuff for all of you.

Oh, and by the way. Do we have a "proposal" type thing floating around. This would be that nifty file that lays down what we are trying to achomplish and basic ideas around how we would achomplish it. I need to see the big picture before I can even attempt to make the little stuff work.

warmage_666@hotmail.com

WarMage: Good to have you on board - I presume you are cool with heading up the coding. If you feel like you need more help with the coding I can bring in another body.

I'll email you all the FTP details and database info.

I've started a new thread for the discussion of this topic:
www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum15/HTML/000100.html

so we can keep this forum for more general project related goodies.

[edit: And the proposal - its not clear what Tom has or hasn't done on that front. Anyone know when he is back? If it is going to be a bit yet then WS and I should be able to draw something up]

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

OK. This is the way I see things happening:

Initial period:

We throw around various ideas on logo, feel and layout to make sure we are all happy with things.

First stage:

Graphics: The logo and layout are finalised.

Coding: The forum is installed.

Content: WS and Beekay work on getting the content written up (including working on the keywords).

Second stage:

HTML: The HTML people take the layout and work it up into a general page design (as well as produce the CSS).

Graphics: Logo, buttons and forum customisation takes place.

Content: As first stage.

Coding: Take the HTML layout and carve it up into the includes. Work on private area, rollovers, contact area.

Third stage:

Slotting the content in and making sure everything is working as we like. I would imagine that most of the pages would be fairly static although we can discuss this in later stages.

-------------------------

We appear to be quite happy about the general sections the site will be divided up into (more details above):

1. Front page with some dynamic content updating news.

2. Forum.

3. Information area.

4. Ripper Report.

5. Private area for 'work' - I'm wondering if this would best be done with a few private forums (but that will have to be investigated by the coders).

6. About us.

7. Contact area (although most contact can be done through the forums there may be a need to upload screen shots and send us private messages).

-------------------------------

Thoughts? If I've missed anything out let me know and I'll update that outline - if there is a call for it then I can flesh it out.

Its clear that co-ordinating things will be vital. Certain things will have to be done in the right order so that they can be passed on to a different group in the team so, while groups can thrash their ideas out outside of this forum, keep us updated of your progress in the appropriate thread so we can make sure that everything is moving along at the right pace. As the work is being done in your spare time we can't have a rigid timetable but it should be possible to keep everything ticking over. People should also make sure that they read all the threads on the project as work in on area can affect work you may have to do further down the line - if people are running off down a road that coould make your life difficult later on then let them know (e.g. the layout may make drawing up the HTML difficult - if so then it is important to say early on so changes can be made as soon as possible).

[edit: I hope that doesn't interfere with Tom's plans but I have kept it flexible enough to cope while being specific enough so that people know what they need to do and in what order]

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

OK as of this post time is up for POI and maninacan and I'll be seeking replacements (I'll be contacting people via email). I should say to POI and maninacan that this isn't a reflection on you and feel free to make yourself available for future projects its just we need to get the team confirmed as things are moving forward.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

OK I've sent off a couple of emails and will keep people updated - I'd like to have things confirmed by the end of today but suspect timezones and the like will scupper those plans slightly.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Emps -
I'm in, but I think I'm best suited for eneral labor right now. Tell me what you need from me, and I'll be glad to do it. Zox seems to have a good grip on the logo and colors, and I'm guessing that my input will be minimal, since I've not a lot of experience to draw from. But I do want to get the experience, and this seems a good way to do it, with other people who know what's going on. I've a good eye, and half a brain, so I can keep up. Sorry about the waffling...

Zox, what do you need from me?

bodhi23: Glad to hear you are still in - I'm sure ZOX will find you something to do I'm working on getting a graphics #2 so you can do what you are comfortable with while getting insightis into how things are working. Keep throwing ideas and comments in on things as they develop too.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

excuse me guys for hibernating

I don't know who said that I were interested in this project 'coz I don't even know what this project is about

I checked this thread via an email of Emperor.
I'm at work for the moment and due to the length of this thread, I ( and my boss ) prefer to dive into it tonight. But if you want a really fast answer, please explain me this project in the rough lines by email

Whatever if you only expect some graphics from me, I think it wouldn't be a problem but I try to keep my "coding time" for some personnal projects.

Cheers,

Mathieu "POÏ" HENRI

well, that's what I thought
you took me for the "other POÏ", see his message in the Team project? thread

quote:

---

posted 06-17-2002 03:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, sign me up for this project as well. I can help you with graphics.

Poi

PoiDesign.com

[This message has been edited by poidesign (edited 06-17-2002).]

---

Mathieu "POÏ" HENRI

poi: Sorry about that - I knew the similarity in names would cause problems I didn't think I'd be the idiot to get it wrong.

You can go back to hibernating now :P

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Emperor: no problem. It would be more practical to call the "other POÏ" by his asylum's login: POIDESIGN.
...ok, I go back to my cave... would you please wake me up with the first snowflake

Mathieu "POÏ" HENRI

The progress is looking great so far, comparing to other projects i have seen which turned out nothing. Hope this holds the whole way out.

Just tought I would mention that I'm leaving for vacation this Thursday and I won't be back until the end of July (I think I get home 28th) so during that period I cannot contribute anything So if any of the HTML parts have to done in that period it is up to Synax to do it. Really sorry to have leave all the work to Synax like this, but not much I can do about it now.

_________________________
Anyone who has lost track of time when using a computer knows the propensity to dream, the urge to make dreams come true and the tendency to miss lunch.
- copied from the wall of cell 408 -

Veneficuz: These things will happen (esp. in the summer months) and thanks for keeping us informed - we'll see how the pace goes. I can always roll up my sleeves and muck in and most people have good HTML skills so there can be some crossover if need be

If anyone will be away for more than a few days then they should le us know here so we don't waste time trying to find you

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Right we now have threads for the various aspects of the design most of which are for specific groups to kick around ideas (and for everyone else to throw in any comments they have) and I have a specific one for the forum where the different groups will need to work closely together with each other.

Graphics www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum15/HTML/000099.html

Coding www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum15/HTML/000100.html

Forum www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum15/HTML/000101.html

Content www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum15/HTML/000102.html

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Emps - I posted here to let Zox know I would be away this weekend (lets hope the terrorists stay away from the east coast for the 4th... I'm flying) but I can maintain contact with the Asylum from Boston... FYI.

I've got no problem lending a hand in graphics if need be. HTML will take little time to do, and I've got lots of time to spare

bodhi23: Thanks for keeping us informed.

synax: I'm still waiting to hear back on the issue of the graphics number 2 position but in the meantime feel free to throw in ideas and suggestions in the graphics thread things will heat up quickly on the HTML front so I wouldn't want you overcommitted in another area (you will be heading up the HTML/CSS group so you might want to start drawing some basic ideas together - sketching encoding, DOCTYPE metatags, etc. - if you want the FTP details contact me or WS).

I think it is time for another thread here:
www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum15/HTML/000103.html
___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor