Topic: Ripper Report - Graphics

Ok, to make things a bit easier, I have opened this separate topic where we can concentrate some more on the graphical aspect of this project.

If I understand right, the graphic team for this project consist of myself, Bodhi and POI. But naturally we will also work more closely with Synax and Veneficuz, who make up the HTML team.

This is all very much still in the brain storming part of the process, and I am opening this topic for people to be able to throw in ideas for the design, without interrupting the general discussion.

Here are a few things I have gathered from the discussion so far:

Overall feel: RR is to be a serious site, dealing with a serious problem. The layout should convey a feeling of professionalism.

Design Purpose: The core of RR is the content. The purpose of the design is to facilitate the communication of the content. Much of the content is dynamic, and this need to be taken into consideration for the design. Some keywords
-simplicity
-fast loading
-useability
-attractive
-professional
-easy to read
-function

Color Scheme: Our "client" suggested a color scheme based on dark brown and red. I suggested using a dark burgundy (brown) can match well with red. And adding grey, black and white for a complete color scheme. As seen in this picture.

The color scheme is not yet settled. Ideas are still welcome.

Logo Design:
The logo should be in the colors of the color scheme.
Ideas so far:

• a "claw mark" as to symbolize the rip. Some people questioned this approach, saying that it has little to do with stealing graphics on-line. The project management agreed with this, and it was decided that this might not be the best way to go (is this right?)
• Beekay suggested: an icon with a faded out copy of it underneath to represent lifting a graphic from the original.
• DG suggested to emphasize Ripper, and tone down the Report part. Play with typography, maybe write Report vertically?

Things to do with logo design: play around with typography and colors. Does the logo need any graphic? What graphics are good?

The graphics can be posted in this forum, and/or be uploaded to the graphics folder at ripperreport.com. All the ideas so far is posted there (ideas for logo, color scheme and a simple mockup I made) They can be viewed here: http://www.ripperreport.com/graphics/

Very nice start Zox...and I am very interested on how you guys take this further...I really like the Burgandy brown...but that is just me.

As for the Logo...I like DG's suggestion...because it is professional, and serious.

Keep up the good work...

You forgot to mention the logo idea you had with the Save Target As... screen cap in it. Personally, I thought that was a pretty neat idea and should also be considered (unless of course it IS a rip of IE).

ZOX: Great stuff. A clean, usable, fast loading design would suggest a layout with a fairly conventional design - nav area, content area, etc. should we have a third area for login in, and other information?

All thoughts and ideas are welcome while things are still fluid.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I like the color scheme you have there Zox, I don't see a need, personally, to mess with a good thing...

Professional is good, in that interest, perhaps leaving the logo itself graphic-less may be better. Though, no one says that we can't keep the "Save Picture As..." idea in the pot, but since that is part of an already designed browser, we can't really call it part of the logo, right? And certainly, add appropriate images within the site itself to break up monotany...

WS, does it matter to you, being the "client" if we break the name up into it's 2 base words? Or do you envision the name as a one word deal... Ripperreport vs. Ripper Report, see what I mean? 2 words would give us a little versatility in the design.

No, not at all. You see, I agreed to let you all work on this...and I know how fustrating it can be in the graphics area working 'hamstrung'...I'm not about to make that mistake...I have full confidence in all your abilities...creativity should not be crushed, only guided...and I think you all have all the guidelines you need. So plug away! Just remember the guidelines...

As there seems to be no objection, I suggest that we finalize the color scheme that I posted earlier in this thread.
Or if anyone has any other ideas, please bring them forward here soon.

I think that the color scheme can be "extended" in the way that the whole monochromatic spectrum is covered.
Then different shades of grey can be used for any shading, shadows, highlights etc. that might be used.

As for the logo design, DG posted a good example in the other thread. I agree with him that simple is better, and we should concentrate on the typography rather than graphics.

I have made some spin-off's on the logo DG posted, and you can see those here: http://www.webwhirlers.com/logoideas.gif
The top left one is DG's idea.

So, what is good and what is bad? Please post your feedback and/or your own ideas for a logo.

ZOX: Yep that colour scheme is great.

OK numbers running from top left in rows:

1. Good

2. Good

3. OKish

4. Good

5. Good

6. OK

7. OK

8. V. Good

9. OK

10. My least favourite

I think 8 jumps out as being my favourite although 1, 2 and 4 all come close and I like what you've done with 5 but that white might be a little too much on the contrast front.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I also like #8...but it is a bit dark...the logo should be visible...however, I like dropping the 'the'...nice. Ripper Report...yeah, that's nice.

Good work, Zox.

#5 also appealed to me...

WS: I quite like the idea of having it dark. Its not 'in your face' but you know it is there. Anyway we'll see what everyone else thinks.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Thank you for replies and comments.

Since you both liked #8, I have gone ahead and made some variations on that. They are here: http://www.webwhirlers.com/logoideas2.gif
just so you can see what it could look like with the lighter color, and also using the idea DG had.

More comments and ideas are welcome!

ZOX: Nice - I like the bottom ones. I'm wondering if the text on the one on the right is a little too high and possibly the spacing between the letters in report is too wide. I suppose I'd like to to see slightly shorter, more closely spaced and chunkier text if that makes sense

I like the idea that the font colour matches the background as though the letters are punched out.

Good work.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Zox:
In the first group, I really liked #5... the white across the red really brought the whole design out....

But I do like #3 on the second set... I've not had any time to play much this week, but you seem to have it in hand...

Yup...from the 'new' ones...definetly the last two...though I think the 3rd one is best...

Good work, Zox!

Zox -
I'll be in Boston from Thursday to Sunday, but will have access to check the forum, just not to do any real work.
If you can let me know today what you'd like me to start working on, send me an email via my address in my profile I can get started on something for you tonight.
I'll download your color map also tonight and play around a little with the suggested layout. Anything I come up with I can post here. I jes' need a little direction...

Bodhi, more ideas for the logo are still welcome, and you can also work on the layout.
The layout I posted was just a first mockup, you can completely disregard it and work on something with a completely different look if you want to. The more ideas we have, the better. The menu does not necessarily need to be horizontal etc.
We also need a layout for the forum - deciding how we want to incorportate our color scheme. We might also want to make our own icons, and from just looking at the server, it seems there are almost 50 of those needed.
I have no experience with the PHPBB, but I imagine it is easy to replace the images and such. Or are there any finished templates that we can/are planning to use?

As for the logo, I made a slight variation on #3 from the last set I posted.
Here it is:

I guess my idea was to make it look like the edges had been ripped off. I guess this is going back to the "rip" idea in some ways, and maybe this is not the way we want to go. But since I just made it, I thought I'd go ahead and post it.

ZOX: There has been something nagging at me about the logo as if it needed something to pick it up slightly and I think something like that may be what we are looking for. Its certainly more engaging and I think it needs something like this. Try a few variations on that theme like making the rip actually cut into the logo (if you are ripping a piece of paper starting from the left the trailing end would tend to taper so you might want to slightly truncate the bottom left hand corner) or possibly even place it slightly off centre (as though it has been ripped and badly stuck in somewhere else).

[edit: oh and the top and bottom look a little too straight, like an old bus or cinema ticket, they would tend to be subparallel just not that perfect so you might want to play with increasing the size of the area ripped piece surrounding the logo lettering]

Although mentioned in the main thread I'll also add that CPrompt has agreed to be the graphics #2 and so you should have a bit more help here now Good to have you onboard

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Zox - I like that last logo idea a lot, and my personal feeling is you've got that in hand. I've had a look at the forum that's up, and so I'll play around with layout styles and whatnot to see what else groovy I can come up with.

C:/ - so nice to have you on board!

bodhi23: I wouldn't do too much until the sites layout, colour and style has been decided upon and bear in mind that there are limits to what we can do without heavily rewriting the codes. You might want to look at the buttons and give a thought to the smilies (there are lots of them). Have a look through the user manual to see if there is a list of the smilies somewhere.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Just thought I'd throw this up, trying to picture what Emps was explaining:

synax: Nice - I think the bottom right one is certainly along the lines I was thinking of - the edges look a little too jagged though (more like a piece of wood rather than paper if that makes sense). I'm off to tear up a some sheets of paper and see if that gives me any ideas

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Ooo, I just noticed that (the woodiness of the tears). It's most evident in the top corners...Stupid me Oh well, I'm not supposed to be doing graphics anyways.

*slowly backs away*

okey dokey. I just got Emps' email. I rarely check my Yahoo! account so . . .

Anyway, I love the color scheme and the new logo is starting really come along. I am going to do somethings to the mock up as well as the logo.

I don't know though, I think that last logo that ZOX did is really good.

We'll see.

be patient with me. I just installed a new hard drive and come across a new problem every day. Right now my Norton is gone.

Later,
C:\


~Binary is best~

CPrompt: Good to have you onboard - have a play with a few ideas - we may go with one of the earlier designs but see what comes up.

synax: We are still throwing ideas around and I have you on hold for the moment so you, or anyone else, should feel free to throw their ideas and thoughts in (there might be something great that we are missing). Once ZOX has come up with a more finalised version (I'm sure that isn't proper English) we can get the roles more strictly defined.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Good to see you join us Cprompt! I am eager to see what you can come up with.

Good work on the logos Synax. Personally I think they say more "cool photoshop effect" rather than "professional logo" but it is a nice effect all the same
Maybe the most realistic would be something in between our two attempts?

Actually Emperor, I was thinking of an old bus ticket or something of that sort when I made it, mainly because the typography remided me of that. I guess taking that train of thought even a bit further would be to make it look a bit worn, and less "perfect". But then that does not really have all that much to do with ripping web sites, does it?

I don't mean to be a mindless idiot but, what is it that you would like me to work on?
Looks like ZOX is doing a fine job on the logo, is it the layout template that you would like for me to work on?

I'm just a little lost

Later,
C:\


~Binary is best~

ZOX - Well, probably not, but the whole "rip" thing is there...

Ooo.. smilies... ok. Hmm... I'll have to give that a think! As far as layout went, I was planning on creating some variation of what has already been posted, but just a mock up of it in PS to see what direction we might need to go in, depending on how the code is to be written... Certainly, I wouldn't be trying to make a final design or anything... But the smilies would be more fun...

C:/ What are your thoughts on the smilies?

I thought I would have more time the first part of this week, but there's a lot to get done preparing for a trip. So actual images aside, my brain is turning!

[This message has been edited by bodhi23 (edited 07-02-2002).]

CPrompt: Basically at the moment we are kicking around idea for a logo. So have a play with any ideas that you have.

I am wondering if we might get a better idea if we saw it in a mock up of a layout. I have one of those niggling feelings that it needs 'something' but I'm not sure what (its one of those things that I'll know it when I see it ). DG's ideas certainly made me feel that it was on the right track. Some other ideas I had were:

1. Horizontally split the background colour (possibly with the two different background colours we have been playing with). Pos. put the divide between the word ripper and the word report.

2. Perhaps have a split colour behind the logo with the lettering cut out so you can see the 2 colours through the gaps.

but I don't feel they are right.

Its ZOX's call on who gets to do what but I would advise people not to do too much on the graphics/layout front until we are happy with the look and feel (that way you won't have to redo things - wasting your time).

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

OK, here's an update of things so far.

The color scheme is hereby *finalized* (yay!)

Our highest priority right now is the logo. It's been coming along nicely, and this is what we have discussed/agreed upon so far:
- Simple and professional
- Play with typography
- We have not settled on any specific font to use, but we seem to agree that a heavy sans-serif font is to prefer. In the ideas DG and myself have posted we have mostly used Impact, and personally I feel this is a good choice. It is a no-nonsense font with fits with the idea of a "report".
- Do we want to keep it very simple (flat colors etc) or does it need some "spicing up"? (like the ripping effect, or the idea Emperor suggested). Personally I think it is easy to go too far with the "eye-candy" things, but if done in moderation it can be good.
- BeeKay suggested "to educate and protect.? as the site slogan. Do we want to incorporate this in the logo? (or whatever the slogan ends up being, since this one is not settled yet, is it?)

These are four ideas that we seem to have liked the best so far:

What they all have in common is that they use the brightest red (#AA0000) against a background of the dark burgundy (#440000). Among the colors in our scheme I think this combination is the most natural, as it gives a good contrast, but yet not too much (such as the bright red against a black background might give). The only exception is the white in the bottom right one. What is your opinions on this?
Another thing they all have in common is the general shape - rather compact, with the width being around twice the height.
Maybe this is a bit backward way to work, but I suggest that we settle to use the colors in this way (bright red on dark burgundy) and keep the dimensions somewhat like this that way I feel we can go ahead and start working on the site layout as well.
Like Emperor said, it can be good to get to see what the logos look like when incorporated in a design, and with the background color and apporoximate size settled, it is eash to switch between the logos in the design ideas.
So, go ahead and work on mockup designs, if that is what you want

As for the forum,
If I understand right, it is hard to make much of layout changes. But as long as we keep the design as it is, it should not be very hard to change colors and graphics, should it?
Bodhi, if you want to go ahead and work on smilies, that is fine with me. You can see a list of all the default smilies here: http://www.ripperreport.com/forum/posting.php?mode=smilies
Just remember that we have not decided on the background color of the forum. And like with everything else, we are aiming for something more professional, so smilies that are mooning or throwing up are not of highest prioroty

ZOX: Thanks for the update - personally that simple one on the top right is winning it for me but I'm very interested to see if anyone can throw an innovative twist in there

On the forum front I'll make you a forum admin so you can see what is easy and what isn't, e.g. it is very easy indeed to change the colours you just create a new 'skin' and then enter the colours in the appropriate form inputs. It should give you an easy way of playing with the colours on a broader canvas without having to go into mocking up a page design (although you are welcome to do that as well. of course ). Anyway if you are signed up I'll enable that now and we can continue this over in the forum thread.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

ZOX is right about the smilies - there are quite a range and we might actually want to trim down the number. As they currently stand I don't think they disrupt the line height too much and I think we should try and keep that as an objective for any new ones.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Yeah, I really like the top right one too. I think that incorporating a slogan underneath it would add really nicely, or would be off to the side somewhere?

I think that ZOX is doing a great job on the logos and I am not really sure that I could do anything better. I will still do some work this weekend and upload some things on one of my servers.



Later,
C:\


~Binary is best~

hmm... I agree with C:/ on this one. I think trying to incorporate a slogan into the logo would be too much.

The more I look at the logos we have, the more I like the simpler ones. It's more professional looking. The top 2 are good. I think within an actual layout, they would be more striking.

Thanks for the smilie link, I'll play with those this weekend. Here I was, striving to think up something professional for them, and now I've been told I can't use the puking one I'd finally figured out... dang! I'll see what else I can come up with...

OK, I guess we are getting closer with the top right one then?

I have uploaded a psd file for this here: http://www.ripperreport.com/graphics/rrlogo3.psd if anyone is interested in playing around with it.

I have also added the slogan to the logo, and below are versions with and without that:


Any comments on this? Keep it or not? Or do in some other way?

Since much of the graphics is dependent on the logo being set, and the HTML is depended on the graphics, I feel we need to push this a little.
I agree with Emperor that this looks like a good choice, but at the same time I am curious for whatever else someone could come up with.
I say we make this our tentative logo, and think about if we want to fine tune it some. And whether or not we want to have the slogan in the logo.

ZOX: I agree. The addition of the motto works well and it can be tweaked at a later date but it gives us enough of a feel to start moving ahead with the layout ideas.

All ideas welcome still

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

ZOX: Just some supplementary thoughts:

1. Kerning: It varies between the three layers which seems to me at least to create a slightly unbalanced feel - would have a more concistent gap between the letters look better (I notice DG's logo does it).

2. Vertical heights - There are natural ratios that just feel right (time for the Golden Mean to be rolled out?) and something like a 3:2:1 ratio (which is what you have there) seems 'right'. Any thoughts on that?

Emps

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

hmmm. . . I think I like the slogan underneath like that, but I agree with Emps that it "kind" of seems off balance with the kerrning.

This is just my observation and I am not even sure if this makes sense but. . .

See how the slogan text spans all the way out to the edge? And then the "Report", while smaller text, it is lined up with the "Ripper". Is this what is making it seem a little off, or does that make absolutley no sense?

It just seems that the text is getting smaller from top to bottom and since it is sitting on top of one another, it looks unstable.

Anyway. . .

Later,
C:\


~Binary is best~

Like Emps and C:/ suggest, try to kern the text so it lines up with the other words of the logo and let's see what it looks like. I'm not sure if I like the slogan as part of the logo or not. I think it might be more powerful if it was separate in the layout. IMHO.

I think I've latched onto an idea for the slimies, if I can get one done today here at work, I'll post it for shredding. It's no major change to the default ones... Just a little style. I'll get one up ASAP.

Thanks again for the feedback.
I think what you write is true. It does feel a bit unsettling.
I have done a few more variations, where I use the same kerning for the lines, and just extended the letters vertically in the "report". I've kinda been taught that you should never distort fonts in this manner, but it looks good to me...

The ratio for the width and height of the red box is now exactly on the golden ratio (it was pretty close before, just a couple of pixels off)

I have three version, one without the slogan, and two with it in different ways. To me the one where it does not reach all the way out to the sides feels a bit unstable.
In some ways I think I agree with Bodhi that both the logo and slogan will be stronger if they are not incorprated into each other, but displayed on different areas of the page.



comments?

#2 looks the business - I know what CPrompt means about the motto being wider than the text above but it works (at least for me). Changing the kerning (despite it breaking the rules ) and fattening the motto (as a product of that change?) has made a big difference.

[edit: I wonder if a line under the motto would work]

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Looks great. I agree with Emps, the second one is the better of the two. The third one seems like it is about to fall over.

[edit] a little side about the golden ratio; you cannot use the exact value of it since it does not exist, you can always add one more decimal similair to what is possible with pi

_________________________
Anyone who has lost track of time when using a computer knows the propensity to dream, the urge to make dreams come true and the tendency to miss lunch.
- copied from the wall of cell 408 -



[This message has been edited by Veneficuz (edited 07-03-2002).]

Time for me to poke mah ugly head in and stir up the bee's nest a little. =)

I haven't been to the asylum for about a month but I've just spend the past 3 hours reading over all of the ripper report threads and well... um...

"The color scheme is hereby *finalized* (yay!)"

Really? Why?

No offense to any of the wonderful ideas thrown down so far but I'm only really seeing two ideas. The initial idea of the red text with the rips and the play on typography that DG put forward.

My experience with logo development and well, visual brainstorming is never so umm... clearly progressive. It looks like you've all decided to stick with one base idea and to play with it a little. Which is good and it helps to polish things off but you shouldn't be polishing anything just yet.

Has anyone tried any other color schemes? Is this one really the best or do you just think it is? Where's the research to support the use of reds? What other forms of anti-theft organizations used red and why?

How about letting the text speak for itself and using the type treatments to play some duality into the meaning. Lets run with some shall we....

Ripping -> Stealing -> Theft -> Jail -> Thick Metal Bulk Heads -> Handcuffs -> Black and white Stripes -> the 'Big Brother is watching' concept -> Surveillance camera -> Judges hammer thingy -> blue and red flashing lights -> an eye -> education -> a graduation hat -> chalk on a blackboard -> glasses -> magnifying glass -> finger print -> blood -> claws -> rips & tears -> torn paper -> arrest warrant -> top secrete documents -> big arse metal safe -> etc etc....

More experimenting, more play; less refining, less nit picking.

As for the other elements, Smilies, Layouts, Menu buttons, dog biscuits etc... the same applies. Everyone should just be turning out as much crap as possible right now - then you'll all have something to work from and something to refine.

Although, while everyone should be throwing in ideas for this the first priority should be the layout and the colour schemes. Make sure the colours work in a full sized 1024 x 786 page before you commit a logo to it! Then make sure the layout fits in with the content and do the logo at the same time. Logos, menu buttons and smilies are the icing on the cake really. Get the composition of the whole site done and done well; then yah make it look pretty.

Anyhow, just my 2c

Dracusis: All good points but at some point one has to decide that the brainstorming period is over (even if it was a brainstorm in a teacup ) and one should move on to refining what you have and getting other jobs done. However, if you have any good ideas to get this process really going then nothing is written in stone (although such input would have been more helpful a few days ago when I was crying out for it I know things are rarely perfect) so fire in some ideas and get things heated up.

If a job is worth doing its worth doing right so if things are delayed for a few more days or a week but the end product is greatly improved then that has to be a good thing.

Some thoughts:

1. The dark colour scheme certainly seemed to fit the mood and ZOX has come up with a good selection of colours which do work on a larger canvas (see the forum colour changes).

2. About this:

quote:

---

Ripping -> Stealing -> Theft -> Jail -> Thick Metal Bulk Heads -> Handcuffs -> Black and white Stripes -> the 'Big Brother is watching' concept -> Surveillance camera -> Judges hammer thingy -> blue and red flashing lights -> an eye -> education -> a graduation hat -> chalk on a blackboard -> glasses -> magnifying glass -> finger print -> blood -> claws -> rips & tears -> torn paper -> arrest warrant -> top secrete documents -> big arse metal safe -> etc etc....

---

As things have got out of hand here ebfore we are trying for a cooler, calmer appraoch and avoiding emotive imagery.

3. DG is our resident logo guru and it feels right but any other ideas or variations or anything would be gratefully received.

Anyway fire away - lets see what you've got

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

To be perfectly honest, I have to agree with Dracusis. I have indicated before that I wasn't a fan really of the color scheme. Everyone else liked it however, so who am I to argue? I feel like these particular colors don't feel like "professional" to me. It all seems too dark and "bloody." When I think of professional, somehow I always get lighter colors in my head, with few contrasty dark bits used to draw the eye.

The logos are looking nice, but right now it's pretty much just type in a block. There's nothing that distinguishes it, ie. no Ripper Report symbol. This may or may not be a problem, but they're just things that are running through my mind. Alot of new ideas popped in my head after reading the brainstorming that Drac came up with.

zox - you have icq?

synax: You should stick by your convictions Do a quick sketch of your thoughts with the colours you were thinking of and post them back here.

Michael: There isn't one listed and I don't have it but he is pretty easy to contact via email.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Just a little quickie to turn a few gears out there....
As well as give some graphical support to the folks that would prefer something not so dark.

I believe Michael did all the work for me That's what I'm talking about - lighter colors and an identifiable symbol. Seems..."cleaner" to me. I may bang out a few ideas of my own, but Michael pretty much summed it up for me.

Michael: Nice work - as I said it introduces some broad ideas:

1. Colour - I had yellow in mind earlier (and I don't even like yellow).

2. Layout.

and other minor elements:

1. The aliteration in the logo.

2. Having the motto in that position.

Anyway I like the clean open feel and I'd like to hear what other people think (and see other ideas along these lines as a number of people have already expressed some thoughts).

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Oh, lots of new posts here
Sorry for not coming here earlier. I was not able to access the asylum from work during my lunch, for some reason, and since I got home it has been thundery.

Dracusis, those are some valid points you bring up.
As far as the color scheme goes, I saw it like our "client" (which I assume is WebShaman in this case) was requesting a color scheme with red and dark brown in it. This is not neccessarily the colors I would have chosen personally, but I was still coming up with one idea based on that. I posted it in the beginning of this thread, and asked for more ideas. Since that was almost a week ago, and there were no other suggestions, and only people saying they liked it, I assumed that it was time to settle for one
Maybe I am pushing things to fast though, I guess when working in a group on-line like this you need to allow more time. I am used to working much faster than this (finished four different screenshots at work, only today)

So, for the colors, I feel that we should ask our "client" before we deviate from the red/dark brown. Personally I think red might not be so bad a color to include in a site of this sort, but we might want to consider something a bit lighter, as some have already suggested. White does feel more "reportish" to me.

As for ideas for logos, I would love to see many more! Again, I have probably been expecting things to happen too fast. When noone had sent anything within a few days, I assumed noone was going to send anything.
Synax, please feel free to share any ideas you might have.
Michael, I like your idea! I agree with Emperor that the motto looks good in that position. And though I am not a huge drop-shadow fan, I think this looks really good. Oh, and I do not have icq installed any more.

A week or more eh? Oops... I didn't realise this had rolling along for that long.

I've been away from the asylum for a while and it seemed like this was just a couple of days. Anyhow, since the forum's up I threw togther a couple of ideas for a layout with different colours:




Mostly just playing with the initally suggested colours.... It turned out more newspaper then the angle I was shooting for but eh.... I'll have some other layouts up later on tonight.

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 07-04-2002).]

I think I was with ZOX on wanting to keep things rolling and, as he said, thee hadn't been any other ideas and what we had seemed good (although with room for improvement) so it made sense to move forward

Dracusis: Those mockups are OK - I do like the graphic across the top and the lighter blue (4) is certain a good direction but the white text on a red background screams tabloid newspaper at me (I'm not sure what it is like elsewhere but all the gutter press where have similar looking logos) and that isn't a direction I want to go down

Anyway keep the ideas coming.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Wow, very nice Michael...love the RR thing in the logo...that's nice. Thanks for contributing.

Though I like the ideas in the logo, the colors are a bit too bright...to 'cheery'? However, maybe we should consider it...hmmm...I really like the placement of 'to Educate and Protect' at the Top...nice.

Yellow...not one of my favorite colors, either...but somehow it works...it is a warning color....Zox? What are your thoughts on the color scheme(s)? Can we work yellow and red into it together?

Maybe combine the two logo ideas (from Michael and DG) into one Logo? I really like the 'RR' thing...it really sticks in ones head...

Nice work, Drac...I really like the lines in the BG...though it is a bit 'trendy', I think it somehow 'adds' to the professional look...just my opinion, of course...though the green areas don't appeal to me...

I think (as Drac suggested) we should kick around some ideas on the theory behind the colours:

1. Dark reds - the original colour scheme. I liked it as it give a sombre, dark feel matching the idea of ripping, etc.

2. Blue - cool, calm, professional.

3. Yellow (and black) - gives the idea of a warning (road signs, wasps, some poisonous frogs, etc.) and is the colour scheme of leading virus resource Symantec:
www.symantec.com

Other thoughts?

I'm not sure how easily DG and Michael's ideas could be integrated although they could cross-fertilise each other (we could certainly use the two Rs back to back but with capital Rs in impact in DG's and we could play with the placement, kerning, height of Michael's logo).

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

ytes...but whatever you do don't do black and yellow striping, cause that loks unprofessional on a site, it gives it an air of 'Amateur site under construction'. Red was always chosen as the colour ot represent danger becuase it is the colour of blood, so red needs to be included somewhere. Use yellow? Maybe, I'm just not sure how well it would fit in with red. I like the grey scheme and the blue scheme drac, red would fit in. yet stand out on ither of them, as evidenced by the logo.

Anyway...I'm all out of ideas.

Koan 63, written on the wall of cell number 250:
Those who Believe
Can
Those who Try
Do
Those who Love
Live

Just dumpin some more ideas down. Feel free to pick it appart and use whatever...

Well...of the two, I like the first one better...but...in comparison to the others before, I don't like them all that much (sorry).

Dracusis: I have to agree with WS - I don't like the patchwork feel to it - it is very confusing for the eye. A few improvements:

1. Put the motto above the ripper report in between the i and t (see Micahel's example).

2. Reduce the number of colours used in the content area.

3. I'd go with the first design more as the content area is lighter in colour.

4. I'd alternate two colours - the light on in the top left, the darker one next to and below it and the lighter colour opposite it so the colours are diagonally opposite each other (a bit like a chess board).

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Well, here's *something* I've come up with. Nothing too fantastic, but hopefully something someone can grab a few ideas off (maybe)

synax: Some nice ideas in there. I'm not convinced about that greeny grey but I like the red and white working together.

I think we need to move this forward - we have a lot of ideas but its not really coming together. My thoughts:

1. If we aren't going for the dark colour scheme we should probably aim for something lighter (like Michael or syanx's ideas).

2. Perhaps ZOX might want to work up a few more colour pallettes - possibly working with a more red and white scheme and one working with yellow (I don't really like yellow but I think it could work well here).

[edit: Now I look at it - could we use the pallete ZOX mocked up above but switch the importance of the colours so we get a white background with the reds as highligh colours and the greys to act as backgrounds to panels or pos. a light grey background with white panels for the content and reds and some blacks for the highlighting?]

3. We might want to think about the layout/navigation (independent of the actual colours) - I like synax's ideas with tabs as it is a report of sorts. Do we need a second column for more dynamic details? How about a main content area and then a second column (on the right?) which contains e.g. links to subsections within the specific sections (e.g. you in the information area and you get links to the FAQ, articles, links to other resources, etc. in the right hand column).

Thoughts?

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

greeny gray? Adjust your monitor man!

I like the Tabs idea, as well...an interesting way of 'organizing' the front page info...we just need to decide what needs to be on the Tabs...

That with the color scheme Emps...hmmm...could someone throw something up? I'm interested to see what it could look like...

Back from vacation, it may take me a few days to catch upon everything thoroughly, but to put in my 2 cents so far:
I liked the original color scheme for a couple of reasons. The colors are bright enough to read, but not garish enough to be tacky. They go well together and it was the closest idea to what our Client (WebShaman) originally wanted for the site. Since no one else had a strong enough opinion to make changes to it, we just went for it. But we all know that at this point in the game, nothing, as has been said, is set in stone yet.
I liked synax's interpretation, The background doesn't necessarily have to be dark, we could reverse the color scheme and put the lighter colors in the background, and therefore the main colors on the page. Use the reds and burgundys in the text areas. It works.
OK, vacation is over, and now I can get back to work. I'm not promising anything within a specific time limit, as we're still at the party in the teacup... But I'll try and submit something shortly. I'll have to spend some time reading and re-reading over the stuff that's been posted and reset my perspective on it... It appears you guys have been busy!

We really need to start making decisions and moving this forward - WS is the client and so has last say on the colours so any thoughts?

I quite like the idea of using the original colour scheme but going for a lighter feel by swapping the importance of the colours.

I also like Synax's tabs as navigation (see places like Amazon, PHPBuilder, etc).

Logo - I like something based on DG's or Micheal's rs (don't say that last bit too quickly)

Title - will we have a separate one from the logo (as with Michael's layout).

Any other ideas?

Other details - should we have a search box? I say yes and we might to think if we want to roll our own or use someone like Google or Atomz (the server-side guys can grab the results and host them onsite as long as we give credit).

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Well, Ok to the point with the colors, Emps. Great idea...

Why can't we use both ideas? the Ripperreport with a circle (oval?) in the middle (bg), with the RR thing (one r reversed)...it could work...

WS: Could you clarify?:

quote:

---

the Ripperreport with a circle (oval?) in the middle (bg),

---

I'm not sure what you are referring to.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Hey Guys, sorry for not being here in a while. Been busy, busy.

I see some good ideas here. Synax, I like the tabs. Perhaps with some other font will make it look more professional.

I have nothing against deciding on a new color scheme, but like Emperor said, it might work good to use the one we have, and switch the emphasis to make a lighter overall look.

I have worked a little on the logo thing tonight, and I came up with this. Tried to incorporate Michael's ideas with the rr and keep some of the older ideas too.

Here's a logo:



And here's a bunch of variations on it:

ZOX: Excellent - I'm really starting to get a feeling of what it might look like.

Great logos. Numbering from top left down the left column and then from top right down the right column - basically I don't think the darker grey background to the circle is working for me and I really like number 2. I'm not sure why but it evocates a 1950s newspaper style and I really like that.

I like that grey as the background and it should work nicely with the content area being white.

If we are going for tabs should we have a gradient in shade across them with the left having the brighter colours (and presumably the more important content). Would it be a good idea to have a bar of matching colour below the tabs to give the sections a more 'colour-coded' feel?

With the logo and having tabs it would suggest to me that the content area should probably be fixed in size or the page could look unbalanced. We'll have to see how things look when it is all together but the I wonder if the logo is too narrow to provide the balance (we might need a mock up to tell).

Anyway good stuff. Thoughts anyone?

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Man, now that is great stuff, Zox! Though a bit different than what I had envisioned, it is actually much better...I also like #2...very nice!

Wow.

That's what I meant by combining the ideas...and it works! That is really nice...

Kudos, Zox.

Soory for my absence, I work for the UNC university system and it's Fall semester billing. I'm so busy these days, I can't find my rear end with both hands! Looks like things are progressing though. I may be scarce for a few weeks, what with late nights for registration and billing going on through August... so much to do, so little time.... I assume someone will scream at me if I'm needed...

OK things seem to have gotten kinda quiet can i have a heads up please folks, Zox unfortunately i cant see any of ya iages recently for some strange reason can you put them in with the others in the images directory like you did with the others please

I would suggest, barring any better ideas (speak now or forever hold your peace), that we move ahead with the 'reversed' colour scheme. ZOX could you mock up a general page design to show us how the colours work and CPrompt would it be possible to knock up a few ideas for different tabs (as noone has saod any different it looks like we'll go with these as part of the design).

I think we need to get the colours and layout sorted so we can start farming jobs out to the rest of the team.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Just peeking in for a moment.

Nice work on those logo drafts.

FWIW:
My vote is on ZOX #2 with a slight alteration.
Turn the "To educate..." to black instead.

It would make the logo calmer and emphasise it as a slogan.
When I look at #2 with the white slogan, my eyes first notices the "rr" and "RIPPER".
Then I kind of flutter between the slogan and the "report", not knowing where to focus.

Notice the difference between #2 and #5 where there's more harmony in #5.

Just my 0.0002 worth.

-nimraw

OK bumping this thread to get our graphics team members attention. I'm still pretty much looking for a layout and ideas on tabs from ZOX and CPrompt. This has been stalled for bit so lets see some progress so we can start giving the others work to do (they get very bored you know ).

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Sorry about neglecting this so terribly lately!
I have not even had time to come to the Asylum, and even less to actually acomplish some designing.

Thank you for your feedback though, about the latest logos.

I agree that #2 among the ones I posted is good, and I also agree with Nimraw's comments about the colors.
Below is that logo, but with the "to educate..." changed to black instead.

I have also uploaded that logo as a psd file here: http://www.ripperreport.com/graphics/ripperreportlogo.psd

I really have not been able to look much on page design, but here is at least one idea:
http://www.ripperreport.com/graphics/pageidea1.gif

It is very simple, and not all that good, but it is a start. I hope I will have time to work some more on this soon.

ZOX: Thats cool - I was just keeping things moving along

I love the logo there my only thought is that the top of the motto is a few pixels over the top of the circle. Hmmmm not a great explanationbut I was thinking the top of the letters should line up with a hypothetical horizontal tangent from the top of the logo. If that makes sense.

I like the page layout idea - very nice. I'm unsure about the blurred version of the logo top right - it looks a little odd.

I'm not sure about the link font although it is growing on me and did me really sit up and take notice so that is a good thing

Anyone else got any thoughts on this?

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Guys -
I was afraid I might have this problem. Too much to do and too little time, on top of that, my PC crashed and I have to rebuild my drives. (The bright side is that I'm upgrading to Win2000 and PS7 when I reinstall everything.) I start classes in 2 weeks, and I haven't finished my personal projects yet. I know I wasn't expected to contribute much, but I'll have to bow out completely at this point. At least you still have ZOX and C:\... I just didn't want to leave you hanging.

bodhi23: OK - these things can only be fitted in around your other commitments. If we need another hand I'm sure we could raft in someone else - synax?

If CPrompt turns up on your doorstep with a baseball bat then I didn't send him OK

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

~cough~

I was wondering if people had any thoughts about ZOX's design?

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Well, shit.... it's a shame how long it's taking to pull this together....
On the same account... I still have no real intent to get involved.... so I guess I'll keep my bitching on that subject, to myself.

Anyway...
Emps wanted some other opinions of this little layout bit, and I'd hate to see that request go unanswered... soooooo....
'ere goes...

First Impression
-What in the hell is that blurry non-sense?... is that a mistake?
-I'm still not getting a good vibe from the grey background of the logo.... However... I can't tell from previous posts if you guys have moved on from the logo, and are attacking the layout now, whilst the logo is officially in a "complete" stage.
To further press on the issue of the logo, if I may....
I don't like how the "rr" has been done. There was a method to my madness when I originally did my little version of the logo.... AND here's part of it....

Observe:



I'm using lower-case R's in both the visual logo *and* the text.
In my opinion, the problem with the logo that is being used, mixes and matches the lower case R in the visual/graphical representation, while capital R's are what's being used in the text. To add to that, the lower-case R's are shifted slightly (or italicized)... while the other R's are stiff, and straight up.
I feel that these elements are all contradicting each other, harming the clarity and the overall feel of the idea of a "logo".
I might as well also throw in my vote to Emp's comment about the "to educate and protect" part being in alignment with the top of the circle. It looks silly, and "slapped on" at the moment.

-As for the "button" text... I'm not diggin' it... and it's not growing on me.
It could just be the colour scheme that's throwing me off, I'm not sure...
But this isn't fallin' into place as a good overall feel for me.

-The border... yep.. I can handle that..... mebbe go a tid-bit thinner with it...... But it holds.

I'm guessing that the grid shit is just a space filler at the moment, so there's no need for comments there.
On that note.... I'm beginning to wonder if you were planning on using the grid as a background, around the content areas.
Hmmm.

*bzzzzzzzzzzz......... whummmm.... whummmmmmm*

Michael,

Good to see some constructive feedback.

As for the logo, you make some valid points. I do agree that the mixture of minuscles and majuscles might create too much of a tension. I did want some contrast though, which is why I choose the seriffed font for the rr part. You are absolutely right about the "to educate and protect" part.
I think what I like the least about your idea is the mirrored r. To me that just looks odd. And to me the whole logo feels a bit high.

The page layout idea I posted is not very good, and I agree with all the things you pointed out.
Here are a few more design ideas I made. In some I have altered the logo to be much more like your idea, Michael. http://www.ripperreport.com/graphics/pageidea2.gif http://www.ripperreport.com/graphics/pageidea3.gif http://www.ripperreport.com/graphics/pageidea4.gif

It would be great to see some more ideas too. CPrompt, do you have any suggestions for designs? Or anyone else for that matter. I feel this is moving very slowly at the moment, which is probably my own fault. But I hope we will be able to agree on something soon.

I like the page4 layout. It is nice. I have some problems with the logo and the whole drop shadow business. I don't think it is needed something a little cleaner would be nice. But again let me restate that I really like the layout idea.

It might also need some filler on the right. Maybe something along the lines of:

Right sorry for being slack here. Lets try and pick up the pace so that when WS gets back from his honeymoon things will be moving along again and he can throw his thoughts in.

ZOX: I really like ideas 2 and 4. I like 2 especially apart from that net-style background which makes the edges of the logo look distinctly odd. I'd suggest just simplifying the background of the upper area. WarMage is right that the top right area could do with something and I'm wondering if we could put in something like a subtle background and work some kind of useful site related thingy - I'm thinking of a search and pos. login (username and password) style boxes.

Anyway with a toned down background number 2 would certainly get my vote - I like just about everything else about it

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

... and production is back to a snail's pace...
I thought I'd tinker with some shite this evening.....
I'm hoping this will kickstart some more action on this project....

So anyway.... quick layout...
I tired to keep to the basic principles for the most part...
-simplicity
-fast loading
-useability
-attractive
-professional
-easy to read

then i just kinda threw a dash of this, with a sprinkle of that........ idea from Person A... two ideas from Person B.

I've got some more thoughts on this.... but eh... i don't feel like messin with it anymore...

So anyway.... here's some more crap to look at....
(sorry for bustin' up the width of the asylum for those of you at 800x600)



thoughts?... comments?
questions?.... critiques?
bitches.... moans..... bitches.... n' general nastiness?

Michael: Thanks for that - I've not been convinced by the steal design idea but you integrated it well into the design. I'm still not sold on that though:

1. Its IE(/Win?)-biased and so might not make sense to other browser users.

2. Repeating the GUI inside the page might be a little confusing for IE users

3. It really stands out as a separate element in the design (you've done well to draw the elements together in a clean simple design and this 'jars' slightly).

However, as I said I like what you've done with a clean, simple look and those ideas for the different sections in the content area certainly caught my interest. I'm unsure about the red background for the lefthand column but the text looks good (although a little 'loose' in contrast to the more constrained design in the rest of the page) and can be done in CSS too (which certainly gets my vote ).

Plenty of good ideas (we could probably reprocess the ideas presented in this design into a number of good sites) but it is time to start drawing together the elements we like into a coherent whole so I'd be interested to hear people's opinions on what they feel is working for them or not. I'd certainly be interested in ideas from CPrompt and WS as well. We then need to try and get some momentum back and so we'll move ahead with a design soon.

I'd like to thank in advance everyone who have thrown in their ideas - things have been distinctly stop/start and I want to break out of this initial phase as soon as we can and everyone's efforts have helped drive this forward.

So get your thoughts in before we make a decision

[edit: oh and Michael - that yellow looks better than I thought it would ]

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Great to see some action here!

Michael, I think it looks good. I will need to come back during my lunch with some more in debth comments, but I like what I see.

I must offer a very strong endorsement for what Michael has presented.

His origianl logo posting is by far the best example posted, and his latest layout example is the only one I've seen so far that really pulls together the various aspects discussed into any sort of cohesive, attractive design.

I second Emperors dislike of the 'steal design' bit though, and for all the same reasons.

I would highly recommend that what micheal has presented be taken and put into a working page, and go from there.

One other thing that is like is the way Michael has tightened up the top area as I was getting a little concerned that it was a little too high. I would suggest that we aim to have something useful in that space like a search box and/or user login boxes.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I have a little more time to look a this now, so let's see...

As I said before, I like this. I agree with DL-44 that this is a good combinations of ideas that
has been discussed so far.

As for what I like and dislike...

I like the logo, it really doesn't need to be more than this. The only thing that bugs me with
it is the slightly off-white color. I think it would look better white, or maybe a bit more obviosly yellow.
I would also like to see a few more pixels of space above the logo - it looks a bit cramped as it is now.

I like the "steal design" part as far as it is fun, different and a bit clever, not because I think it is esthetically
very pleasing. Also, this screenshot is 900 pixels wide, and we might run into problems making it
liquid all the way down to a 800 pixel screen.

The menu looks ok.

Unlike Emperor, I like the red section to the left. It might not need to be as wide as this, but I guess
that depends on how we want to present the recent rips. If it is done with thumbnail images,
it might need this much space.

The yellow is ok... I think the yellow title looks good, but I don't care particularly for the yellow
gradient background... the whole concept of a gradient with rounded corners does not fit very
well with the rest of the design... Right now it feels almost like two different designs in one page.
Of course, some sort of footer might pull it together quite nicely.

That's my 2 cents worth, time to get back to work

Just toying.
took some of the above comments and incorperated them.



again.... bitches and complaints...

and ya.... i just slapped that "steal design" bit in there again.
fuck off, i know it looks like shite.

Ooh, even better

The 'steal design' bit doesn't look so bad in that way - much more subtle, less intrusive.

Nice work

Michael: I'm liking that a lot better - still not won over on the steal design business but I'm getting there

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Looks very good!
I especially like the upper left corner, with the bright red and big contrasts.

I think the 'steal design' part look better now - less obtrusive.

What about moving the "steal design" up in the meny, so it fits in the top of the page,
something like this:

ZOX: Now that I could live with

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

well...
toying again...



turn for the better..... turn for the worse?

Michael: Thanks for plugging away there I like the phrase across the top but I think I prefer the previous version (that yellow works well and I preferred the cleaner feel). I suspect this is a good sign that we might be approaching some kind of finished look and feel.

What does everyone else think?

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I like how this is turning out. The 'Steal Design' is incorported quite well, I like it, I think it should stay.

I do not, however, like that choice of green. I don't think green is going to go well with this design. Nope, nope.

Kudos Michael, well done.

at a quick glace I think I agree with Emperor - I liked the previous version better.

Not that this is bad, but I think I preferred the cleaner look.

Has anyone else noticed how Michael has used some kind of Jedi-mind trick to get us to agree that yellow is good?

Anyone else got any thoughts on this - further tweaks?

Are we going to make the site searchable? If so we'll need a search box up there at the top too. Do we need a login box there or could we just have it on the pages where you need to log in?

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Just being nit-picky, but take that apostrophe out of it's in: "and people who care about it's content"

Cell Number: 494

just being picky leave the apostrophe's in otherwise it will look like someone didnt know they were meant to be there

also i think the search engine would be a good idea...

~cough~

There is no apostrophe in the possessive form of it.

Only in the contraction of "it is".

amazing that the most miniscule aspect of these iterations becomes the center piece of conversation.

*shakes head*

Michael: I think this is a clear sign that we are happy wth the general design and are getting nitpicky over details.

More thoughts?

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

DL: Are you pulling tongues at me? Well there is no-one else where so you must be pulling tongue at me.

Anyway I can install a site search engine pretty quickly so if its deemed a good thing I can pitch in (as Dracusis has had to relinquish his #2 coding position) and get it done.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

zeah i think this is a close as we are gonna get to the final version Emps.

DL... FYI Read Post....

"It's in" is the contraction form as abbreviated from It is in...... *cough*

however as you correctly pointed out the second apostrophe should not be there

[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 09-18-2002).]

[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 09-18-2002).]

OK. I think we are all agreed (give or take an apostrophe ).

ZOX: Do you want to take Michael's design of 09-14-2002 02:54 PM and give it your tweak to get the steal design bit in the header area and start the process of turning it into graphics for a page. I'd like to try to use CSS as much as possible here so do people think we should go for the 'who we are' business as ordinary text but with some styling on them?

Synax: As you are going to be doing the HTML have you any input at this stage?

I think given the decision and the length of this thread that I'll shut this down and start a new one.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Those of you following the real topic of the thread just go here: http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum15/HTML/000113.html and pay no mind.

I only opened this up to discuss the insignificant apostrophe issue some more (sorry, I couldn't just let it go )

Tom - the "it's in" part of Bee Kay's post was saying: take the apostrophe out of (the)"it's" in: (quote from the actual page with the errant apostrophe).

So..the first "it's" was him simply stating the word in which the apostrophe needed to be removed....he wasn't saying the phrase "it's in".

See what I mean?







[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 09-18-2002).]

DL LOL..... wanna reclose this one now hehehe 4 posts over a " ' " guess that means the graphics are pretty much sorted

~sigh~


silly bitches.

I'll tell you what I'll give closing this thread another go (esp. as I think Tom's comments were meant as a joke) and see how that goes.

I enjoy having the last word as much as the next man but...........

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor