Topic: Qualms on thread closing

Of late we're seeing more and more closed threads due to lamer invasion.

This concerns me. I'm good with the four basic rules of 'porn, mp3s, warez, and spam' and the threads closed for wrong forums or post overflow- but I think it's in bad form to close threads simply because of the lamers inside.

I think it's better to leave the threads open to rot away or to maybe steer then in a usefull direction, but it sets dangerous precedents to shut it down because, "I don't like what you said".

Make sense, or should I just go soak my head?


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

well, personally im against closing threads. i'm more for DELETING that thread!

also if we move a thread, we should delete (and not close) the original one to avoid redundancy.

Petskull - while I see the validity of your concern as far as setting a precedant, I don't think we really have to worry.

There are a lot of threads lately that just degenerate far below any usefulness and I personally feel it's better on some occasions to kill it off before it ends up mutating into something uglier.

Silliness is onething, the types of threads in question are quite another.

And of course, there is always that beautiful built in checks and balances system whereby if one person closes a thread that didn't need to be closed, someone else can always politely open it back up =)

Just my take on it...

GRUMBLE:

quote:

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also if we move a thread, we should delete (and not close) the original one to avoid redundancy.

---

I'm going to stick with leaving the closed on behind as I have had enough people hassle me about it before hand. Hopefully with the new Asylum these things will melt away anyway

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I agree with DL. It`s not so much a matter of * I don`t like what you said* as it is a matter of stopping it from getting worse, or even more pointless than it started, or a Flame session, or whatever.

That`s sort of our job as Mods, yes ? ( hence the term *moderator* )

Not to censor , but keep things on an even keel. Keep them from degenerating into.....bad things. Help keep the focus.

Personally, I don`t close alot of threads, but I haven`t seen one closed lately that I wouldn`t have, if I gotten there first.

Yep, I haven't had much of an issue with anything that's been closed lately.
DL and DB pretty much broke it down how I see it.... (however..... we all know the word "focus" has to be taken lightly around here.)
Threads go sour in a hurry... and they'll just get worse and worse if something isn't done.
Will that always happen?... nope.... That's why it's a judgement call.
Considering the parties that are involved, and what's been said, we all have to make the decision.
We all have common sense, so I'm going to stop there.

Grumble... I disagree with you as well.
If I move a thread... I'm not going to delete it. The instance of a newcomer possibly coming to the PS forum and asking a question.... then me moving it to another forum without leaving the thread behind will have them coming back to the PS forum looking..... being confused... and then just leaving.
I see the thread left behind as something very useful... and it can save a big headache.


FAQs n' Bits: Michael

Leaving the thread behind isn't ideal but, at the moment, it is the only system we have. However, boards like vB have the ability to leave a redirect behind so that the thread link takes people through to the other forum. I think that is worth looking into.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

quote:

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Hopefully with the new Asylum these things will melt away anyway

---

Hmm... well, I suppose that all depends on whether or not I will be allowed to have a portable shock therapy machine in the new Asylum so I can go around surreptitiously electrocuting people, rather than having to wait for some poor soul to wander into the shock therapy room in the basement.

quote:

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That`s sort of our job as Mods, yes ? ( hence the term *moderator* )

---

Is that what mod stands for?

I thought we just called you guys that because you were cool and wore really spiffy clothes.

OK, my work here is done. I'll be down in the basement if anyone needs me.

(Sigh. My conscious prevents me from leaving without saying something of worth. As a non-mod, I must admit that I have occasionally wondered why a thread was closed down so early, and there has been the rare occasion where I have been disappointed to see a thread closed (although I must admit that probably stems from my disappointment in not being able to leave behind an extremely unhelpful wisecrack). However, I agree with DL about the checks and balances. I have seen this system in action more than once, and I think it works. In the very few cases where I disagreed with a thread closing (none of them recently, by the way), another mod has reopened the thread. So, yeah, to make a long story short, I don't see a serious problem with the recent spate (yes, I finally got to use that word!) of thread closings.)

I understand what you're concern is Petskull but yuh go soak your head :P

DL & DB took the words outta my mouth. I agree. nuff said.

*sigh*

This Yannah person is really being a...pain. I've wrned her repeatedly...and tried to guide her in how we do things here...when is it acceptable to delete someones post?

According to the Doc (I asked him this self-same question many moons ago), only when that person says defamatory things, racists remarks, posts porn or warez on the board. At itmes like that it should dissapear as soon as a Mad Sci sees it. Other than that, we do have a freedom of speech policy here, so you have to use your discretion, and, if possible, try to get a consensus of some other Mad Sci's...but be very, very careful when you do delete a thread or a post...what has been taken away cannot be put back by any of us, except maybe the Doc from a backup.

Yeah...*sigh*...I know...it's just that she is not heeding the advice...and Mahjqa has started deleting her 'replies' in the PS area...because most of them are not relevant to the topics...or anything else. 111 posts, and only 2 of them are anywhere near...relevant.

Well, we will see...I will continue to close her threads, when they don't contain anything...or just nonsense.

I do think it is unwise deleting messages under any circumstance and doing it because Yannah is annoying doesn't seem wise although things could get so disruptive threads spin out of control.

I know I boobed a while back when someone was posting racist messages and I removed them as we might have needed evidence at a later date.

Possibly we need an 'Isolation Cell' where we can dispatch the nastier posts which can be accessed by mods.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Personally, I like the idea of an area we can send threads with racist comments for later evidence.

We could call the area 'Solitary Confinement' and have it apssworded so only mods can access or view it

why not have it available to all?

the only thing being that the only way to post there would be for a mod to move the thread into that forum..

then all it would need is disclaimer that these kinds of posts will not be tolerated in the Asylum...

...obviously obscuring warez links...



Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

didn't we already try that?

Not that I can recall, but we may have before I joined.

the unregistered forums....

I'm not sure if that was exactly what we were going on about. I was thinking more of a highly restricted area where only Mad Sci's or Psychotics could post, an area where we could send threads (or individual posts, not sure we can do that) that contain racist comments, or things that aren't allowed by the rules to be posted here (they have been warned after all), an area where we can keep them as evidence for later reference. It could be an area where anyone can view, but not everyone can post, so we can use it as a very direct example of what we won't allow on the board.

ok. noted down - 'solitary confinment area'.

Should a thread, when it is moved, leave a message for a couple of days?
like
"This thread was moved to solitary confinment because it was just plain inappropriate for the weaker-minded inmates to see?"?

now, get your rear ends over to the grail wiki ;-)
Y'all should have gotten an email with the access codes. -
If not, complain to me via icq or email.

so long,
TP

I think that that would be a good idea TP...but only for a few days.

sure. just like the 'moved' notices... they should only show up for like 48 hours as well.

the whole thing seems silly anyway.

If a post warrants being moved to somewhere noone can visit it, then it should just be done away with.

If it warrants being saved for "evidence" then someone can screen-cap or copy the text.

No need to go through such effort just to have a holding bin for 'bad threads'. It seems to lean to far towards that whole "police" thing that got all the mods onto trouble last time



[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 12-22-2002).]

I must admit, I'm a bit with DL here...
It's not happening very often that we'd need something as 'evidence' and if so, a screencap surly should serve the purpose. Otherwise, the trash will get deleted sooner or later anyhow.

Yup, I`m with DL and TP here. We don`t get alot of stuff here that needs to be deleted, IMHO, so a holding area would be a lot of wasted effort. If you find objectional posts, cap `em and delete `em.

Done deal.

As far as deleting posts that seem irrelevant or stupid, well, if I did that I`d spend lots of time deleting posts, so I don`t go there. I try and let people be ignorant in their own way, and describe my objections as they arise.
Besides, if someone deleted all the post that are irrelevant or stupid, most of you wouldn`t know me vrey well.

only thing I got to add to docilebob:

For doc's sake: Don't achive the stupid stuff... I even found a question without an answer in the archive(!) (ie. a thread, consisting of one post, no replies and zero information).

Well...this Yannah person is really bothering me...I have nothing against being playful, or having fun...but using someone's b-day thread to post nonsense, without even so much as a happy b-day...that just takes the cake! Deleted!

And the constant whining 'Will someone make me a sig?'...even after a flood of replies to the contrary, advice, etc...

I have mailed her enough times, tried to reason, given advice that is ignored...and have come to the conclusion, that she is not interested, even in the slightest, of learning how to do anything here...

So I ignore most of her dribble...and delete that which is entirely inappropriate.

I will say that I have deleted posts that are such complete nonsense as heres are - and I see no problem with it.

being silly or un-useful is one thing. Clogging up a thread that has a purpose with somehting so completely inane as some of hers are is simply a waste of bandwidth, and I see no problem in deleting some of those.

I also opt to delete many threads rather than archive when I hit that process, simply because we don't need each and every topic that ever gets posted to be saved.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Ok...after receiving some very sound advice (thanks, you know who you are), I have decided to stop any and all deleting...with the exception of warez/porn/racists remarks...

Though it may be bothersome sometimes...and some replies are...well, other than that, which one would expect, I have been reminded, that we do have freedom of speech here...

Sorry about my outbursts...

What's up with this 'other' Doc Ozone fellow? Is it a joke?

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 01-05-2003).]

Hope it is. I closed that thread cause it wasn't going to go anywhere.

god that was pointless.

Well I've closed the Ripper Report threads in this forum twice now and some of them keep reopening (and after the first time I made sure I had a witness on this). Equally the two hiding source threads keep floating back from the archive and reopening themselves (although no one has yet posted in them) so 3 possibilities:

1. A Mad Sci is dicking around - events here today have left me rather drained and I'm really not in the mood for this kind of thing.

2. Someone is somehow getting access to the admin controls.

3. The OzoneAsylum code is really screwed.

If it is option 2 or 3 then we really need to know asap so if it is option 1 then could someone let me know (they needn't reply in this thread if they don't want to) as options 2 and 3 are pretty serious.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Ok...I'vej ust closed most of the RR threads again.

Silly shit.

about as childish as it gets quite frankly...

I whole-heartedly agree DL

Skaarjj: Thanks - I wasn't having trouble closing them just keeping them closed I am actually concerned that it might be a technical problem as the 3 RR threads which reopened themselves twice (so far) were the same both times. I've dropped TP a line to see if there is anything wrong with the files so we'll see. Anyway something to keep an eye open for.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

OK it was option 1. I've spoken to the person concerned and I don't believe it'll happen again.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Oh, this again.

Well, come on back when your wounded inner child heals ok?

I'm really sorry for that things came to this - I'm not going to bother replying to anything else there except:

quote:

---

get down of your high horses and stop thinking you are Kings
because you go by "King" nicknames,

---

Ah yes being an Emperor I despise them too - kings are my toys!!

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Ahhh...another *bump* in the normal day-to-day runnings of the Asylum...

Though, I must say, I've never seen so many closed threads at once since I've been here...

One thing : is it ok to continue the RR? New threads? Just thought I'd ask...

*snoops around*

ditto WS.

Here's where the discussion will continue http://www.ripperreport.com/forum/ as
emperor said here http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum15/HTML/000105.html.

Ahhh...thanks for that update...I missed that, as my computer was down for two weeks...

Yippeee! The forum is great! Good work, all!

Just in case you guys didn't know, you are all basing all of this crap on stupid pride. I think you guys need to start following the rules set up by Doc. Do not close a thread unless it contains profanity, or whatever the other reasons.....there are three or four. I think its stupid to delete any threads, who cares... You guys are just making this place look really really bad...

I also think that all of you who are closing these threads should not be Mad Scientists. It sucks when you are reading something, are about to post in there, and then find out it has been closed while you were reading it. Get a life, and just stop closing stuff unless it follows the guidelines of Doc. People can write mean stuff if they want, who cares? Who are you to judge what is mean? Who are you to decide what people are interested in reading?

I have never said any bad language in here before, maybe once or twice,
but all you stupid thread closing fuckers need to grow up.


Ozone Quotes

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

From this FAQ
A thread can be closed because:

1. Inappropriate content.

2. It has spun out of control - this happens all the time!!

3. The discussion was finished.

Now, if there's a thread where you feel a legimate topic is being discussed but a few individuals have met any of those criteria, feel free to repost your legitimate point.

When I close a thread I always put my name on it and if you have a problem with why I closed it, I'll be happy to take it up with you. More often that not, with any MS, there is a reason whether they say who closed it or not.

:::krets.net:::

[This message has been edited by krets (edited 04-05-2003).]

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Although I am loath to jump into the middle of this, I have one thing to say.

On the thread closing and deleting and whatnot...I think you are all being childish, you included InI. There is really no need for any of this, and it's quite frankly stupid. Why don't oyu all come to the table for peace negotiations, and agree come to the table without any pre-conceptions about anyone else, like you've all just met, and now it's time to get to know the real person. You never know, if you do that and all of you stay calm and agree to at least have an open mind about what the others have to say, you never know, your your preconceptions of someone may have run away while you busy talking inside, and you'll just have to live without them, and form new (and possibly more accurate) ones..

I'm done...I just hope you'll actually read what I have to say and think about it rather than just dismissing it out of hand. We might all be better people for it.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Shiiizzzam: Wise words - I think we all need to step back and not say things we'll regret. However, this has largely been conducted via email and the Doc has been up to speed I'm afraid this has spilled over here.

I have basically followed the criteria that krets lists for closing threads - if that isn't acceptable then we need to discuss that (and there is a huge grey area even when working within those guidelines). If anyone thinks a thread has been closed in error then they are welcome to contact any of us and we'll look into it. I do think we need to post criteria when we open or close a thread.

I don't think there is any need to delete posts (unless it is a double post or something) - I deleted some offensively racist posts a while back and shouldn't have and I can't see any reason for it.

Hopefully with the New Asylum we should have more control over thread closing/deleting so we have to justify it.

GN: I agree - I have emailed the Doc with my apologies and offered my MS resignation and I emailed InI and offered to leave the Asylum as this is all largely my fault (he has asked me not to so I'll stay and see what I can rescue from this).

I feel terrible about this whole thing and I hope to speak to as many people as possible in an attempt to fix things - if people could bear with us and take a deep breath if they are going to delete something or make an inflammatory post.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

*takes a big sniff*

Ahhh....

I think we all need some incense... How about we all just chill out now, no need for anyone to get angry, or threaten to leave... Just sit and relax, and laugh at this....

Now, didn't that feel better?

Emps, I really hope you don't decide to leave. I always pictured you as next in line to take this place after Doc. You've commited so much here, and you'll never outstay your welcome... I think. I beg you to stay.

InSiDeR the Voice of Reason? Now who would have thought that possible a year ago - a lesson to us all in these trying times

And no I'm not going - I'd have said my goodbyes and gone by now if I was. Also I have no intentions of overseeing the Asylum now or in the future - it requires a trained medical professional and I'm more than happy to leave any decisions to him

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I think if we could all just follow these two rules the Doc posted when he created the Mad Sci's Lab life would be much happier:

quote:

---

- Profanity is not against the rules; being rude or mean is.

- Having opinions is good. Disagreeing with others is good too, keeps us on our toes. Being rude or mean while disagreeing with someone is not good, and will get you slapped.

---

He is, as always, the voice of wisdom, and I think sometimes we forget that.

Skaarjj:

quote:

---

He is, as always, the voice of wisdom, and I think sometimes we forget that.

---

You are right - I think we should probably make more of an effort to jot down his thoughts and ideas in the FAQ for future reference (like the Doc's Orange Book).

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

quote:

---

Insider - I think we all need some incense... How about we all just chill out now, no need for anyone to get angry, or threaten to leave... Just sit and relax, and laugh at this....

---

Yea. I really shouldn't have said all that stuff. I guess I could go and edit it and delete it, but what's the point...
I don't even know why I care. I didn't realize it was Emperor who was doing all this stuff, I guess it doesn't matter. I was just very confused at what was going on, and havn't really had time to read all the stuff until now.

Perhaps you two can move on past this, and you know, it reminds me of my best friend and I. We have almost gotten into fist fights a couple of times over stupid stuff, but the next morning we would always wake up and sit and watch TV just like it was normal.

I don't know, maybe you two can try and imagine that you are floating down the river of time, leaving in your wake the past, with all the stupid stuff that has happened floating on away with it.

But then again, I probably shouldn't say stupid....


Ozone Quotes

GN - I certainly understand and respect your point of view on this issue, but I don't think you - or a great many people - have any idea how far reaching this bullshit has gotten, or how many people and groups good old Ini has managed to severely insult and directly threaten throughout his long drawn out tirade here.

I think it's also very clear who has been instigating these threads, and who has been trying to avoid or end it all.


Emperor has done nothing but good for this place, and to see him abused in the manner he has been is infuriating to say the least.

And it all started because a thread where Ini flipped out, swearing and insulting a newbie who made the horrid mistake of being ignorant of Ini's "challenge", got closed.

???

???

I mean jesus fucking christ, this has to be dragged out into 3 weeks of threats, insults, pleas of innocence, and claims of "well (so-and-so) says I'm right", and all this other childishness???

We passed the point of "enough is enough" a long fucking time ago.

I don't think I've ever been this disgusted here...

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

1) I deleted nothing. I closed a thread. And then someone Archived it.

2) It had nothing to do with your use of the word challenge - the thread was closed due to your abuse of the new member who's only crime was ignorance of your purpose.

3) I can't even find a point in anything you said other than the typically childish "no, *you're* wrong, I'm right!"

4) Your actions speak for themselves.

5) Your insults stopped effecting me a long time ago...it's kinda like the 'boy who cried wolf' syndrome.

It's time for you to grow up Ini. You constantly throw insults about other people being childish, or about being a 'man'.

How about you give it a shot? Stomping your feet doesn't work for adults...


6) That is offically the last word I will ever say to you.


{{edit - damn fingers...}}





[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 04-05-2003).]

a post to fix the broken asylum.

it's hard to read the thread in
b/w with random asci charcters.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Jeezus.

Could both of you act a little younger?
Problems don't just work themselves out... they need to be addressed and discussed... but go stroke each other's balls in private.
A good majority of people are tired of it.
One person backs down and the other instigates... and then there's a role reversal.
I realize that you both do not want to work this out... you've made that obvious.
And I have no problem with that.

The constant need for both of you to reply to this thread is because of the on-going remarks that arouse public interest, and the other feels the need to speak up to voice their opinion or clear their name of something.
I think the general public will concede that we know you both have a shit load more to say... but in not posting further, you can show some intelligent restraint for a recent change.

I'm sure I can point a boney finger here and there about all sorts of random crap that could muster up some grand arguments.
I'm sure I could go back and post someone's actions or words months after the original post and point out something that could get a rise out of people of the present.
I'm sure many people here could do these things. It's not all that difficult.
But for the sake of being two individuals that give a shit about the Asylum as a whole, I wish you'd just stop.

I'm not making any attempt to be an all-knowing wise one. We all know that I'm far from it.
A good ribbing or some good old fashioned bickering is just fine in my book...
But you both continually go further and further with this.
My post here is probably not even needed, you know all these things already... and you both probably have a few choice words for me.
That's fine.
You guys know where you can find my email address if that's the case.

Of course, you could always just let this post be the last of it,
For now.

And yea, I know I don't need to butt-in here.

you may have noticed, michael, that this has not been a me vs Ini issue.

there have been a large number of people that have been the target of the threats and insults Ini has been so generous with.

See - threats. As in, *way* beyond a step too far. Threats of hacking people's computers and other more generic threats such as "you will pay, one way or the other".

Emperor has been the target of a furious email barrage in which heaps of people are dragged through the mud and he himself insulted and harrassed *far* beyond reason.

And this is somehow something *me* and Ini need to work out?

No offense Michael, but what are you smoking?

But, whatever.

Doc - please, do us all a favor and remove my madsci status - I don't need the fucking aggravation.

Yep, I'm aware of the broadness of the matter.
And no this isn't something you and InI need to work out. As I said, I think it's fine that you don't.
I don't really care.
I'm simply addressing you as two outspoken parties just like I would with any other thread of this nature.

I'm not smokin' anything, and certainly no offense taken.

OK, I think this thread has run it's course. I'm going to close it now for 2 reasons:

#1: It's going on 64 posts with mine.
#2: Nothing else is going to be resolved.

Feel free to open another thread if you feel it necessary, though I think most of us will agree that nothing more is going to be resolved.

:::krets.net:::