Topic awaiting preservation: Does freedom exist?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24635-2003Jan7.html

What is this all about? You can get arrested for getting to drunk at a bar?

I guess this makes me wonder, is there really such a thing as freedom?

And if there is, does it exist anywhere?

Cell 816~teamEarth~Asylum Quotes

Yup. People just need to understand that having freedom isn't the same thing as having a lawless society. To be free rules need to be established.

Jestah

They could just intstitute a great way to stop drunken driving at the bar.

Key Check - you drop off your keys when you walk in... you take a breathalizer test before you get them back. The breathalizer would be right next to the cabby hotline phone so you could still get home.

GrythusDraconis
I admire a man who can budget his life around his pint of Guinness and I envy a man who's wife will let him. ME, inspired by Suho1004 here.

Yep, rules.

But, getting drunk in a bar, and getting arrested for that fact alone?

Sheer idiocy.

Next thing you know, prohibition will be back...

Sure they could hand over their keys to a perfect stranger before consuming vast quantities of alcohol ... or they could just get in touch with there state legislature and have the law changed.

Whichever.

Jestah

[This message has been edited by Jestah (edited 01-08-2003).]

Having been a victim of something exactly like this I can say it was one of the most humiliating, angering, and frustrating experiences of my life.

Fortunately my mom works for a very good lawyer who was able to have all charges dropped against me and a permanent (can't think of the word) put in the arresting officer's file.

It is one thing to enforce the laws, it's another thing to abuse them.

It was meant to coincide with a change in the law, Jestah. The bar being a save haven for drinking and also keeping the people from driving home drunk. i would imagine that's the reason the law exists in it's present form. To stop people before they get in their cars. So... stop people before they get out of the bar. Just leave the cops out of it.

GrythusDraconis
I admire a man who can budget his life around his pint of Guinness and I envy a man who's wife will let him. ME, inspired by Suho1004 here.

Like I said turn over the keys to probably your second most valuable asset to a perfect stranger at the door before loading up on alcohol. Did I miss something?

Jestah

[This message has been edited by Jestah (edited 01-08-2003).]

You're right Jestah, it's a much better idea to drive your "probably second most valuable possession" to a bar when you plan on getting obliterated and then drive it home.

There are such things as lock boxes and receipt tags. Systems like this are in place for other purposes all over America and have been for a long time.

I'm having trouble finding where I mentioned driving at all Krets. Feel like pointing it out?

Jestah

Well, you have three choices:

1. Walk
2. Cab
3. Drive

The unfortunate thing here is that most people choose #3. Gryth's method would essentially take #3 out of the mix for anyone with a BAC above the legal limit.

Got it?

I do not see drunk driving as having anything to do with this at all.

This is abuse of the law, and proactively seeking people out when no complaints have been made and there is no probable cause just screams entrapment.

quote:

---

Police said the holiday raids, first reported in the Reston Times, were born of a community policing goal of discouraging crime before it occurs. Bennett said police had been called repeatedly to the three bars in response to fights and disorderly conduct.

---

Now this is just ridiculous. I agree that discouraging crime before it occurs is a good idea, but the idea of giving a sobriety test to people in a bar just because there had been trouble there previously just doesn't make sense. It's like the police raiding your apartment because the previous tenants used to sell crack.

Then again, after 9/11, the government has been stepping on our civil liberties with reckless abandon and we seem to be letting them. The price of security...

So Jestah, did a giant crab drive itself way up your ass and latch on with both claws today, or are just being an asshole on a whim?

Just curious, as it seems to be spreading to each thread you post in...

DL-44 - ROFL!! I'm beginning to wonder if it's just me... The crab idea has me guessing again...

I agree with you, silence. The injustice is evident. I was just suggesting a way to change the law and make it so drunk driving still isn't an issue. i.e. the bar is fine to be drunk in, unless you cause trouble, it's outside the bar that it becomes an issue. I think it would appease all parties involved. Maybe a bit overboard, but not as overboard as arresting people before they've done anything wrong. Minority Report anybody??

[Edit]Who knows how many of those arrested had Designated Drivers besides.[/Edit]

GrythusDraconis
I admire a man who can budget his life around his pint of Guinness and I envy a man who's wife will let him. ME, inspired by Suho1004 here.

[This message has been edited by GrythusDraconis (edited 01-08-2003).]

I know a guy whose ex-wife got sentenced for DUI a couple months ago...

when she was arrested, she couldn't even remember where she lived or her last name...

this was her third offense...

she got probation. no jail time. and license revoked i think for maybe 3 months.

if she kills someone next time, i'm shooting the judge.

Yeah, Grythus, Minority Report was in the back of my mind as well. At first I was doubly amazed since it looked as if the police actually brought people out so they could be charged with public intoxication, until I read that Virginia law considers a bar a public place. I also agree that being intoxicated in a bar should be exempt from the "public intoxication" law.

DL also hinted at the prohibition period and we all know what happened with that.

And just for your information, under the licensing laws in the UK, it is against the law to be drunk in a bar!!! and also against the law for a barman to serve you when you are drunk.

now by the drink driving laws in the uk, you are considered to be a drink (drunk) driver offender if you have an alchohol / blood content of 35 . Which equates to about 1.5 english pints of beer.

so go figure that one out, when and when are you not drunk!



[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 01-09-2003).]

I really think testing for sobriety in the bar is stepping over a line. The state has the right to enforce laws against public drunkedness and certainly for drunk driving but this case just doesn't feel right to me. I would definitely be trying to get the law changed on that one if I lived in Fairfax county.