Topic awaiting preservation: Bowling for Colombine

Have you seen it?
Any comments?

Have I seen what? Got a link? Or is this one of those posts where I'm supposed to read minds?

Her is probably talking about this.
http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/

Cell 816~ teamEarth ~Asylum Quotes

Yep, that´s what I´m talking about (the movie, not the website):

1953:
U.S. overthrows prime minister Mossadeq of Iran. US installs Shah as dictator.

1954:
U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200000 civilians killed.

1963:
U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.

1963-1975:
American military kills 4 million people in southeast asia.

September 11th 1973:
U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically-elected President Salvador Allende assasinated. Dicator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5000 Chileans murdered.

1977:
U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.

1980´s:
U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.

1981:
Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30000 Nicaraguans die.

1982:
U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.

1983:
White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis.

1989:
CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3000 Panamanian civilian casualties.

1990:
Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.

1991:
U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates Dictator of Kuwait.

1998:
C*****n bombs "weapons factory" in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.

1991 to present:
American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates 500000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.

2000-2001:
U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in "aid".

Sept. 11, 2001:
Osama bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3000 people.

[This message has been edited by MW (edited 01-31-2003).]

Thanks, GN. No, I haven't seen the movie yet. Is it good?

I just read that list from the web site and it seems pretty accurate to me. Please explain what conclusions *you* draw from that list.

Bugs, you would not enjoy this movie at all. It's all about the US' obsession with guns and how
guns kill people, not people kill people. This guy even has
enough gull to take one of the victim's from Columbine into K-mart to buy ammo.
<sarcasm>Thus, hilarity ensues...</sarcasm>

I wonder when he's going to make a movie about his comments about african-americans
on the 9-11 flights. I'm sure everyone will love that as well.



[This message has been edited by beaner (edited 01-31-2003).]

So do you think I should wait until it comes out on video?

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Please explain what conclusions *you* draw from that list.

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OK.

In the past 50 years,
most US governments have helped, initiated and done things
which everyone either was ignorant of or thought to be "good" at that time,
and which could be seen as war crimes, mass murder, or support of terrorism and dictatorship looking at it from today´s viewpoint.


That´s all. It´s just something that comes to my mind whenever I hear that germany should take part in the war against Iraq, because it´s about freedom and democracy and moral obligations and to the best of the Iraqi people and the whole world...

[edited for clarity]

[This message has been edited by MW (edited 01-31-2003).]

Theres a couple things i'd like to say:

1. I understand the point they're trying to make about the movie, but if they want anyone to take them seriously, they went about it the wrong way.
2. I was very displeased at the name of the film, its almost like rubbing the fact that 2 kids went crazy in THAT town all in those inhabitants faces, like it was their fault, stuff like this goes on everywhere, singling out a county or city or school and making light of it to prove a point that we like guns is wrong. How many kids died in columbine anyway? I'm sure there have been incidents in other places where many more were killed. Thats not the reason why columbine became so infamous. I just dont like the tone of the film if they want to make that kind of point, its not something you joke about.
3. EVEN IF we wanted to, we couldn't stop the majority from owning a gun, and in no way could we stop the military from using them, its only goin to get worse, and no one else (FROM ANY COUNTRY) is getting any better. And, yeah we have more gun casualties because we're "stupid" and "power hungry" and so many other bad things, and to quote that comedian, greg something (i forgot ), "thanks for sending over the brightest bunch to start the party" to all you anti-american bastards... sorry. We have more casualties cuz we have more idiots with different idiodic beliefs (even religion when it comes to pushing it on people) than ANY OTHER PLACE IN THE WORLD (totally disregarding the word american, and going back to from where EVERYONE originated). I know most people from MOST foriegn countries mean well, and you have the same inhumane, blood thirsty, vengeful blood coursing your veins as we do, people get shot.. if they got shot, 80% of the time they were doing something stupid. But there is a % "of time" where people died wrongfully, by the hands of others, and this film would be glorifying that by giving it the time and the exposure that the media needs to sell its garbage. Because thats all this is. Garbage.
4. That fat man does a good job of representing the average white male in America.
5. I like pie just as much as the next foreigner... especially pumpkin.

sorry for the rant.... but
" i hated even the trailer for this movie.. i give it a B+" - SiZkal and Eebert (the ghetto-paranoid-schizophrenia critic)

Phoque

"Salting the back of a snail... My turkish prison is knowing that i fit in...."- Glassjaw

Beaner, Sanzen, you must not be very familiar with Michael Moore. His films are not exactly comedy; they're satirical social commentary. He doesn't make fun of the subjects in his films, but rather allows the subjects to make fun of themselves. The humor that "ensues" results from the subjects' usually surprising, and often disturbing, reactions to Moore's very direct questions. Watching his documentaries will make your draw drop in disbelief more than it will make you laugh ? the films' very intention.

Incidentally, his films do a very good job of sticking up for the little guy and making fools of greedy, uncaring corporations and their executives. Just give Roger & Me a watch.

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It's all about...how guns kill people, not people kill people.

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I haven't seen the film, but I'm familiar with the premise and with Moore's earlier work. I doubt the film can be summed up this simplistically. From what I know, Moore illustrates America's obsession with guns and the ease with which nearly anyone can obtain a firearm. (He even visits a bank that offers shotguns to those opening new accounts.)

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I wonder when he's going to make a movie about his comments about african-americans
on the 9-11 flights.

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I haven't clue one what that means.

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if they got shot, 80% of the time they were doing something stupid

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Who was it who said 42.7% of statistics are made up on the spot?

Anyway, it seems to me you guys don't exactly get satire. Like I said, you should watch Roger & Me, a masterpiece in my opinion.




[This message has been edited by Wes (edited 01-31-2003).]

well i went on the Trailer and the website..... if they didnt' want to come across like that then they should have chosen a better clip...

"Salting the back of a snail... My turkish prison is knowing that i fit in...."- Glassjaw

Wes, I believe beaner was referring to this http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=366725

. . : slicePuzzle

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people died wrongfully, by the hands of others, and this film would be glorifying that by giving it the time and the exposure that the media needs to sell its garbage.

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I always love when people claim that any depiction of any topic "glorifies" said topic. If you had read the Web site and watched the trailer (although the clips represent the film better than the trailer) you should have understood that Moore was pointing out just how messed up gun proliferation can be.

And as for lumping Moore in with the rest of the story-hungry media, I quote from his FAQ:

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Q. How did you get a tape of all those all calls the day of the Columbine massacre?
A. The sheriff?s office provided a CD-Rom to the press of selected phone calls but tried to block the rest from being heard. We unscrambled them and were surprised to hear how many media outlets were tying up the emergency lines that day with their demands that they talk to ?someone live on the air.? Calling 911 without a legitimate emergency is a crime.

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Edit: Thanks for clearing that up, Bugs. It doesn't seem to me that Moore's point was deprecating to blacks, but not hearing the comments for myself, I can neither agree nor disagree with them.



[This message has been edited by Wes (edited 02-01-2003).]

columbine happened years ago, and to bring it up and to make it the title of your movie is glorifying it in my opinion... its wrong, something that shouldn't be done, and i dont care how "Satirical" it is, or how it is supposed to be interpreted, i see it as just flat out BAD... and i could really care less about how he thinks his movie seems

"Salting the back of a snail... My turkish prison is knowing that i fit in...."- Glassjaw

You're right. We should never offer opinions on or discuss tragic events, especially if they are so far in the past as three entire years (measured from the release date of the film). Why would we ever want to explore the atmospheres and attitudes surrounding such occurrences and risk learning from them? We're better off filing history away and never mentioning it again.

I'd like to add that I'm certain you have no grasp on what glorification is.

Additionally, you have proven that you are bent on villifying someone with whose work you apparently aren't familiar in the least and condemning a documentary for its message, which you haven't bothered to hear. All you know is some "fat man" made a movie, put "Columbine" in the title, and that's "BAD."

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and i could really care less about how he thinks his movie seems

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Yuh?

The guy was on Oprah quite a while ago. They showed clips from his work, and I have to say I actually liked what I saw. One was a cartoon about ... er, um ... if I remember correctly it was about guns and why the population in general feels a need to own guns. It's about a feeling of superiority and control over other people. The cartoon was a combination of funny and just plain sad.

They also showed a clip of the director's interview with some total nut ... Timothy McVeigh's dad maybe? Damn, sorry guys, I just don't remember. That interview was anything but funny. It was downright scary!! The man was a total loon!

Cell Number: 494 / Inkstick

http://www.michaelmoore.com/articles/index.php?article=trans-donahue-20021028

For all who haven´t seen the movie, this is a transcript of a talkshow where Moore talks about most of what is adressed in "bowling for colombine".
Read it to the end, it just keeps getting better (worse).

Thanks for that, MW.

Now readdressing something beaner said earlier...

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And that's why I agree with the NRA in part, when they say guns don't kill people, people kill people. Because it really is the people.

--Michael Moore

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