Topic awaiting preservation: God's or Alein's?

I found this real interesting....

UFOs in Religious Writings?

I really liked the pictures, especially the really old ones. Is our vision of who God is wrong? Perhaps the Definition of God needs to be changed to make it more clear the {edit}God of the bible is a living entity, like a human, who is the ruler of the universe, but not the ultimate, all knowing God.{edit}

Cell 816 ~ teamEarth ~ Asylum Quotes

[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 02-28-2003).]

Maybe God is the ultimate form of evolution (or near it)?

And maybe he/she/it is wondering if that is, indeed, the ultimate level of evolution...and decided to test that...who knows?


WebShaman

I am reading this really good book called Spiritwalker, its awesome. Anyway, it says that God is everything. It's a real interesting concept. It starts by talking about humans, how each humans consciousness is evolving, and how as we individually evolve, our ideas and thoughts transmit into the sun's consciousness, which sees through our eyes, and thinks with our thoughts. As we evolve, so does our sun. And as all the suns in our galaxy evolve, through other planets peoples evolution, then the center of our galaxy evolves, and all the centers of our galaxies are connected like all of the humans are connected, and all of the suns are connected. It is just on different levels of consciousness. And then there is this huge matrix, like a spider web of tiny Phosphenes that connects all the centers of the galaxy together, so that all the information everywhere is united through this huge matrix. And God is this huge matrix that we are all connected to, and therefore we are co-creators with God, as we evolve, we teach him/it/the matrix connecting everything, valuable information and ideas, and then God evolves and changes, thus changing the consciousness of the center of the galaxies, which change the consciousness of the suns, which changes our consciousness. It's an awesome idea, and a great book.

Cell 816 ~ teamEarth ~ Asylum Quotes

quote:

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, so that all the information everywhere is united through this huge matrix

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Hmmm...well, because information cannot be created or destroyed (just like energy, only the form changes), if the above quote holds true, then this 'God' already knows everything...no need to evolve, then...and certainly, no need to 'learn' anything new...because there wouldn't be anything new to learn.

not necessarily created or destroyed, but enhanced.

And I don't really follow you on information not being created or destroyed?

Cell 816 ~ teamEarth ~ Asylum Quotes

That's one of the laws of information...it can neither be created or destroyed. It just changes form. Just like energy (which is a form of information).

Well, I can't really find anything on this information thing, maybe you have a link.....but I guess you can substitute ideas for information in that quote.

Anyway though, I disagree, becuase there is always something new to learn. Everyday, a new perspective to look at something is taking. Perhaps, for example, a person looks at a flower and that flower reminds him of his wife. This then, is newly created information for the creator to store. The creator, and the man, have never looked into a flower and thought of his wife, and since all humans are different, just becuase someone before him may of stared into a flower and saw his wife. That is a different person, with different features, and different attributes.

So God evolves through experience's which are constantly changing and shape shifting. And the more shapes we go through, the more we evolve and change, the more the entire matrix will continue to evolve and change.

Cell 816 ~ teamEarth ~ Asylum Quotes

[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 03-11-2003).]

how can something change form if it were never created?

"Salting the back of a snail... My turkish prison is knowing that i fit in...."- Glassjaw

Nope. That is not creating information, just changing its form. That the human brain is pretty good at changing the form of information is wonderful and all, still doesn't mean that the human brain is actually creating information. It actually just processes what is, and changes it to a different form.

Otherwise, we wouldn't need any senses, now would we? We could just 'create' the information, in the brain itself.

What is your definition of information?

For example, "I have new information on how to get to space."

Well at one time, it was not possible to get to space, then with the creation of new information we can now get to space. Perhaps if you better explained what you mean by information not being created, I would better understand, but I just look at new information as being new ideas.

[I was going to put dictionary.com's definition of information here, but it's not working this morning.]

Sanzen - When something is first created it changes from one state to another. Even the first processes of creation involve change. There is life everywhere, just waiting to be changed into more advanced life.

Cell 816 ~ teamEarth ~ Asylum Quotes

[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 03-12-2003).]

All information already exits...in one form or another. The brain is an interesting organ, because it can change information, from one form into another.

That same can be said of energy.

You might want to start here - Fast Company. What you are looking for, is the law of conservation of information.

Interesting stuff, really.

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 03-13-2003).]

Ok, I read through that link and still do not quite understand your disagreement. Basically, how I think this works, according to this theory, is that as humans change the form of the information available (evolve), God changes/evolves based on the new form of the information we have created. I may of stated it a bit simply at first, but I am a simple person.

Cell 816 ~ teamEarth ~ Asylum Quotes

[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 03-16-2003).]

Information cannot be created or destroyed.

Therefore, only the form is being changed. That is what I'm saying.

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 03-18-2003).]

Gilbert, this theory of yours is totally based on the idea that God is not a personal being but rather the summation of all the physical universe, correct?

My understanding of God is that He is completely independent of our universe. IOW, He exists outside of it and He created it and when it is gone, He will still exist unchanged. Also I believe that He does not change for us but the other way around. He is unchanging and we are the ones who change as our understanding ebbs and flows.

. . : slicePuzzle

Yea, Bugs, that's what this theory implies.

Perhaps there is also a God the creator, and this ever changing substance should be given a different name. I don't know. I just think it is a cool way to look at how closely everything could possibly be connected.

[edit-Bugs+Webshaman, technically, even when everything is destroyed, our information and energy, which can not be created or destroyed, will exist as well as God, it will just be the physical world that will be destroyed.]

Cell 816 ~ teamEarth ~ Asylum Quotes

[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 03-17-2003).]

When everything is destroyed? Could you perhaps explain that? According to the laws of Physics, this will not happen...the energy will just change form. And the information, BTW.

quote:

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and when it is gone, He will still exist unchanged.

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I was refering to what Bugs wrote.

Cell 816 ~ teamEarth ~ Asylum Quotes

Yes, someday everything in this universe, (read that as *everything*), will cease to exist. This universe is neither eternal nor everlasting. This is according to my understanding.

I guess that is why religion and science split so often. Science says energy and information exist for eternity and can neither be created or destroyed, where as religion says there was a creator of these things, and eventually they will be destroyed.

Cell 816 ~ teamEarth ~ Asylum Quotes

No, GN, this is not exactly correct. According to the Laws of Physics, this is so. However, change the Laws of Physics, and then one has a totally diferent ballgame.

And as far as we know, the Laws of Physics only applies to our Universe...at this time. Now, the laws of Physics may look a bit diferent, for example, within a Black hole (or outside of the Universe, for that matter).

Right. Science does *not* say the universe is eternal. We just don't know that one way or the other at this point, scientifically.

And the reason for the contention between religion and science is because both of them answer different types of questions. Each of them cannot answer every question on their own.

So as we learn more and understand more about religion and science, the lines between which one answers what shift. And some people are very very uncomfortable with change and put up a fight until it becomes so obvious to everyone that we move on to the next adjustment.

Are you saying that the earth is not flat?

the universe is flat.

"Salting the back of a snail... My turkish prison is knowing that i fit in...."- Glassjaw

I'm saying the universe looks like the surface of my large intestine.

Aha! Then if we gnaw a hole in Bugs large intestine, we'll see what? The universal Panceas? The Spleen of eternity? The unending Liver? Don't even want to mention the Black Hole of....

Thank you for stopping when you did