Topic awaiting preservation: Question about France... again. (Page 1 of 1)

French plea as cemetery defaced

Moon Shadow, I am convinced you are a very decent fellow and I know you do not condone this behavior. But since you have asked us here in the US about how we perceive the anti-French rhetoric going on, I want to ask your opinion of this type of thing. It's a pretty low thing to do but reading the article I see that 25% of French persons are siding with the Iraqi army in this war.

Can you please help me understand what is going on over in your country? I feel very privileged to be able to speak with you on this matter since I really don't know any other French nationals.

. . : slicePuzzle

quote:

---

Figures released last week showed a big rise in racist and anti-Semitic activity since the 11 September attacks on the US.

Two French Jewish people were attacked at a recent anti-war protest in Paris

---

god the blatant and severe hypocrisy of violent peace protestors just...kills me. It's just so disgusting (i'm not in any way saying anything about the french in particular - these things happen at 'peace' protests all over the world).

And the defamation of the graves of men who saved french lives is, I think, sadly one of the typical sentiments that have long caused anti-french feelings here in america. It's just a step more overt this time...



[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 04-05-2003).]

Thanks for your compliments Bugimus

quote:

---

It's a pretty low thing to do but reading the article I see that 25% of French persons are siding with the Iraqi army in this war. Can you please help me understand what is going on over in your country?

---

First of all, let me say something : these types of behavior are much more rarer than this article hint it, and with the international situation they becomes much more important and spreaded. When something similar is done in the day to day life (I only remember viewing such things two times on TV in my life), it doesn't get spreaded in the world like that. The opinions are much more sensible when the relations between our two countries are tight.

Of course, I do not support at all this event, and for many reasons. First, dishonouring the memory of people that gave their life for us is simply foolish. And then I can't bear viewing a nazi cross anywhere. Maybe these two things are bound by a single fact : a poor knowledge of history. Maybe the people is not enough aware of what did the nazis. Maybe they can't even imagine what sort of sacrifice dying for another country is. But maybe they don't care about it, and that's the most probable reason. It's a shame for me to think such persons exist, however I can't do anything about it. The most raging thing is that we (the French) pay the international consequences for the acts of a few (maybe a single) fool person.

The poll says :
34% - support US-led forces
25% - support Iraq
31% - support neither side

Yet another shame. Usually I tend to be cautious about polls when they do not include a value called the "typical distance" (I fear this is not the correct translation. Anyway, it's a mathematical value that expresses the wideness of the results and the possible variations, it is equal to the root of the variance). But I think this poll is right, because I witness it. The 31% seems in my opinion to be the "normal" people that opposed to the war, and can't resign to support the USA in this war. There are 34% of people that support the USA. These people either support the USA and the war in Iraq or don't support the war but want to see the USA win (or rather Saddam defeted). I belong to this category. Yeah, the 25% are really shameful. I think the people in this category can have two types of thoughts. First, they are maybe extremists opposed to the war and that want the USA to be defeated because they started it. Or then it could be people opposed to the war that feel pitiful for the Iraqi people.

But both make terrible mistakes. They don't seem to know what is history. They don't seem to know who is Saddam Hussein. They don't seem to know that killing thousands of persons by chimic attacks, starving half of the population, forcing the people to support Saddam Hussein and so on is 'bad'. Most of the time, I despise these people. They don't care about the world situation. Their only interest consist in their self-comfort. They allow themselves to judge the USA for wanting to remove Saddam, and on the other side they never imagined how would be the life in Iraq. I'm sure you see the type of persons I am talking about, I fear they also exist in the USA.

So yes Bugimus it's a shame for me, for us French to see that 25% of the population support Saddam Hussein. Their behaviors is not the result of misinformation or anything else (the medias are quite objectives in France), but rather a consequence of the human nature.

I also think I have to go along with the bad jokes some persons make about France (like recently in the Ozone thread). I think I won't change anything even if I take the time to answer them and to ask them to learn history, so I am not really happy about this. Anyway I greatly appreciate you guys for your pondered opinions and considerations in my posts.

So I will conclude with two quotes :

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
--Martin Luther King Jr

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
--Albert Einstein

We should always be cautious about polls as there wording can give misleading answers and when they are further spun......

I'd suggest the 25% figure reflects those who are anti-war (or at least those who support the Iraqi people) not:

quote:

---

It's a pretty low thing to do but reading the article I see that 25% of French persons are siding with the Iraqi army in this war.

---

Its also worth bearing in mind France has a relatively large and militant Arabic population (as a product of their long history in North Africa) and it wouldn't take too many 'rowdy' elements to be reponsible for most of this - we can't jusdge France on the behaviour of a few tens of people.

And Roastbeefs!! I thought we were lobsters

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

quote:

---

And Roastbeefs!! I thought we were lobsters

---

And I thought we were frogs



[This message has been edited by Moon Shadow (edited 04-06-2003).]

Moon Shadow: You are

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Yeah...I mean....what kind of sad excuse for an insult is roastbeef???

MS - you are completely correct that in such times, such acts are given far more public exposure than they normally would.

I do fear that american public reaction will also be typical - turn this into a "who can be a bigger ass" campaign.

~sigh~

Thanks very much, Moon Shadow. That is a very balanced view and I basically agree with your analysis and we certainly do have our share of idiots over here too.

But what I really want to know is what do you all call us? If you're a frog and Emps is a lobster, what does that make us Americans?

. . : slicePuzzle

It makes you.. [bad Japanese accent] stupid american.. hah hah hah [/bad Japanese accent]

Amis!

There is no typical word at my knowledge used to qualify you. One word maybe exists, but I don't know it. You are the 'Ricains' (diminutive for 'Américains', the French word for Americans) and that's all.

'Yanks' is the popular term isn't it?

I thought "Yanks" was the British term for Americans... I thought most of the folks who don't like America used the term "Americans" with a dispariging tone of voice. From what I've seen, most anti-American folk think that's insult enough!


Bodhi - Cell 617

No DL 'Yanks' is not a French word. It's like Bodhi portrayed it : 'Ricains', with a special tone.

or sometimes: "those damn americans"... again, with the special tone!

Bodhi - Cell 617

I always thought it was just 'Americans' No one ever gave us a special insulting name, internationally anyway.

Isn't the swastika backwards? The reversed image is a Buddust symbol for.... uh... temple is it? I also thought it was native American for peace or safety or something.

GrythusDraconis
"I'm sick of hearing that beauty is only skin-deep. That's deep enough. Who wants an adorable pancreas?" - Unknown

[This message has been edited by GrythusDraconis (edited 04-08-2003).]

I know 'yanks' isn't a french word, but thought it was widely used in Europe to refer to americans.

Oh well... =)

Yankie Imperialist Pig Dogs?

I've always enjoyed Limey for us Brits - I hate citrus fruit related insults.

GN: Where did the comment about the swatika come from? Its a symbol which originated in India (where Aryans came from) and was appropriated by the Nazis.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I visited a huge Buddhist temple hear here (actually it was the very same one Gore got all those contributions from). Anyway, they had a bunch of statues with the swastika symbol and they always had a sign nearby explaining how it definitely had nothing to do with the Third Reich.

Also, when I was in England for a high school trip in 1984, I was in a hotel elevator with 2 friends and another lady who spat on the floor and said "americans" disgustedly as she got out. I guess it's just the way you say it that makes all the difference... and a little saliva helps too

I also remembered that racial slur database and got this result. Some of those I've never heard of.

In the photo at the top of the article, a swastika is shown spray-painted on a monument.
In some of my reading, I seem to remember that originally, the symbol called a swastika was some type of sun-sign and that the arms should show the symbol spinning clockwise (sun-wise) and the Third Reich switched it to spin counter-clockwise. In magick, clockwise of course is positive energy, and counter-clockwise is negative energy. But that's supposed to be how you can tell the difference between just a sun symbol, and the symbol for the Third Reich.
Based on that, with another look at the photo, that particular swastika is counter-clockwise - denoting the Third Reich, or perhaps just their sentiments regarding anti-semitism. Go figure...

Bodhi - Cell 617

Limey is my preferred slang for brits Emp. Of course, it has nothing to do with citrus, but rather the nice white stone that so resembles british skin....

LOL DL :-) Personally I prefer rosbeefs, but that's not an insult in my mouth

I personally prefer Pommies! (Prisioner of Mother England!)

Hey Webshaman, I've clicked on "pommies" with babylon and it told me :

Lol!!

Hehe...yep, I spend too much time 'down under'...hehe...

No offence, Emps...

Roastbeef does not mean lobster, it means exactly that, roastbeef, a nickname for the English given by the French because they think the English are osbsessed with eating roast beef. Where does the lobster come into it?

Frogs for the French because of the English disdain for the French delicacy of eating frogs legs...


...xpi..

"nuff said"

[This message has been edited by Xpirex (edited 04-19-2003).]

I've never eaten frogs legs (even though my last name, Mitchell, I think was Norman) and now I never will since I've given up meat but to anyone who has... do they really taste like chicken??? LOL!!!

yes bugs, they do

People tend to call us Aussies Skips, or Skippys...or savages...at least, they do until we spear them in the guts, coo kand eat them and hang their heads over the gates of our villages.