Preserved Topic: An old theory on existence

I think about this from time to time...

While I was in college, I started contemplating: what if there was no physical reality? What if I am simply a consciousness in a void, that has generated reality to keep myself... sane... alive... whatever. What if everyone else was either a mind like me, or generated by my imagination to keep my world believable? When I die, does the world end because there is nobody left to sustain it, or do like minds exist and also have control to keep it going? Do I really die, or does my consciousness take a new form to begin a new "life" once the old "body" has been used up? If I were nothing but a consciousness, I don't think I could die. Time would simply be an invention for my reality, and age as well. There'd be nothing physical to wear out on me.

Of course, I can't possibly accept this idea, because to accept it would have one of two results:

1. It's true, but since I know it is true, reality ends because it can no longer sustain my belief.
2. It's false, but I believe it anyway, thus making me clinically insane.

Therefore, in my best interest, since there are aspects to reality that I do rather enjoy, I must maintain that this idea is simply ludicrous, and just the ponderings of a creative mind. You are all welcome to give your thoughts on this, though if what I pondered were true, you are either trying to sustain reality for your own benefit (and maybe mine), or you are the ramblings of my sub-conscious trying to keep things "real". Since I refuse to believe that though, your continuing of these thoughts are welcome.

p.s. - This has nothing to do with the Matrix movie coming out. I thought about this before the first one was even filmed.

Hmmmm that's really interesting even if I can say I do not share this point of view. I also thought a lot about it, as a conscient person, and as a die hard sci-fi reader (there are a lot of issues with reality in sci-fi). Philip Kindred Dick said something really interesting about it :

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, does not go away."

This is in my opinion a good statement. At least, this is what I like to think. I don't think that a false reality is thrown in the front of our eyes, for example by machines (like in Matrix). In my opinion our world is real, even if I would like it not to be. Nevertheless, I still can conceive that we live in another reality. This can be conceived mainly in two opinions :

First, imagine the whole universe. Got it ? Now imagine another one, with a single detail that changed. Now imagine the infinity of universes different from ours but still the same. Now imagine every universe possible. Everything possible. That is to say, parallels universes. We live in our universe, our reality, however there are an infinity of universes that are similar, different. Our universe is an isomer of many universes, but I think at the beginning a single universe existed. This universe is the reality. We maybe live in something that is not reality, but rather something that evolved from reality but isn't it anymore...

Then, there is still a second option. This one is much more close from your opinion. Our universe may be a creation. Oh surely not by the machines, I think this human concept is way too much limited. Imagine what you want, what you like ti imagine for this, but imagine we live in an universe that was created. Of course the 'reality' cannot be said to be real. We would only be able to qualify something of being 'real' if we reached the original reality. But, I think that if we live in a created universe and still didn't even noticed it, is far beyonf our knowledge. In this case, I like to qualify the day to day life of being the reality, even if it is not, because I know the other one is not accessible.

Anyway, Human Shield, I really advise you to read "Ubik", from P.K. Dick. In this novel (without explaining everything), there are hmm peopple that are dead, but whose brain still work and create universes and the persons that live in it... But this universe is contained into others... I can detail it further if you are interested, but that would maybe kill the story. That should maybe interest you much.

PS : Hope you don't think I am mad

I remember reading a book that held a similar viewpoint to your postulation. It basically stated that these 'shells' were a creation of our true selves and that we needed to break away from the confines of these physical shells and return to our pure selves. I believe it was refering to an energy state but i can't remember for sure. I haven't unpacked my library yet so when I find the book I'll spit it's title/author out.

This is similar to some of my own thoughts. The way I see it is that there is no way to further your consciousness or knowledge without interaction. In this 'reality' that 'you've made for yourself'/'we've made for ourselves' we are opening the avenues of learning and growth that wouldn't exist otherwise. 'Real' or not, this physical existence is necessary for our consciousness to expand, grow, and exist in it's own right. Without growth is there any reason for existence?

GrythusDraconis
"I'm sick of hearing that beauty is only skin-deep. That's deep enough. Who wants an adorable pancreas?" - Unknown

We're all mad, that's why we're in the Asylum!

P. K. Dick. That's that man's name. I was recommended a book by him by a friend some time ago, and I could never remember the name. Not sure it was Ubik, but maybe something else. Now I'll have to go to the bookstore. Dang it!

I read about a theory of reality that referred to "Reality Tunnels" (Robert Anton Wilson, I think). Each person has their own reality tunnel, but there are certain things that our conscious minds "agree" on. Like cities, trees, cars, roads, houses, that sort of thing. But each consciousness comes out of it's own tunnel. It sort of explains why there's such a vast difference in people's individual perception of the world. I thought it was interesting.
Perception is funny stuff. Very funny stuff. And not funny-ha-ha either. Funny-weird! Someone's perception can be colored by a particular prejudice, and 2 people can be watching the same event, and you'll hear 2 different versions of what happened.

I read a really good book by Sherri Tepper (can't remember the title right off, but a good story none-the-less...) a few years back that had an alien race in it who only remembered events by having each member of the tribe "sing" their memory of it. The idea was that you couldn't remember an event correctly by yourself, you had to have the other memories of it so that you could really see the truth of the event. Unless you found the common ground in everyone's perception, it wasn't real. I thought that was pretty cool too.

Now, tell me I'm NOT mad!

Bodhi - Cell 617

here's what I can tell you about reality after my 21 (it's been really intersting and vivid 21) years:

You can believe in "I think therefore I am" kinda ideology all you want, thinking that you are the only mind that exists and everything (and everyone) else is just a figment of your imagination, but that does not change the fact that those beings "you imagine" consider themselves JUST AS REAL AS YOU ARE, and think that you, in fact, is the product of THEIR imagination.

Usually, when people start thinking this way (as you in college, and I right now being in college), other people say the need a 'reality check' and that is precisely so!!!
You need a reality check!!!
You know why?
Because it doesnt mattter if you're the only thing that exists and everything else is in your mind or not, what matters is that you're stuck here for a definite while (unless you choose to end your own suffering) , and that's not gonna end until it does - which is in a not-so-near-future (unless read last parentheses). So EVEN TO YOURSELF it shouldn't matter. Just be prepared to spend the next xx years here on earth with us,
being a figment of my imagination.

Well, the oldest surviving culture on earth believes we are but a dream...see the Australian Aborigines for more on this...the Dreamtime.

So who knows? Maybe they are right...

P. K. Dick. Say that really fast about 20 times.



Actually, the theory that all reality is in the mind would make a really good movie. I should start writing the screenplay!

a movie? you wouldn't be original... well, I guess maybe in some weird way, as FearDotCom is different from The Ring, but even Matrix is a dream in a way.