Topic awaiting preservation: intresting reading...would like to hear oppinions from DL and WS (Page 2 of 2)

are you trying to tell em that popes have some supernatural powers?

do you really know what teachings of bible are?

NO sings, NO idols, NO need to go to priest...just straight to Jesus...if you really wanna be christian I suggest you do it....


now those popes and cardinals are just butt fucking little boys...and spending all the money on lawers

[edit]and why is peter important? he was just a guy...who infact even denied Jesus...so what the hell does he has to do with anything beside being a fallower? [/edit]



[This message has been edited by Ruski (edited 04-24-2003).]

ruski - learn respect. That post was rude and offensive.

hehe... he said butt.

"The only difference between me and a madman is that... i'm not mad!" - Salvador Dali

Well Jade, this

quote:

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What force inside of you compels you to love your wife and children, mother, father, etc. Where does this emotion originate from in you? Wouldn't you die in your wife's or childs place if the circumstance arose where it be you instead of them. Why?
And if you did die for them, wouldn't it be for love. Wouldn't you be doing what Jesus did.

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is an interesting set of questions...

So, I'll do my best to answer them. What compels me to love? The feeling of love. Where does it originate? For me, it's just a biological reaction...nothing more, nothing less. Animals feel it, too. Well, maybe not all animals, but most mammals, anyway. Point is, evolution has brought this about - it provides a much better success, for a species, to feel love...and to be willing to sacrifice itself, for its young...

Would I sacrifice myself? Yes. I've had an amazing life...I would hope that my sacrifice would enable those that I sacrificed myself for, to have one, too. But then, I see death a bit differently, maybe. No, it wouldn't just be for love...love comes and goes. I hold duty and honor to be more important than love. So, I guess I wouldn't be doing the same thing that Jesus did...because I'm not particularly interested in saving others, or the whole of Mankind...I've already done my part, in that regards.

The point is, one cannot save someone else. They have to be willing to save themselves...one can only be willing to help, and show them a way...or ways to do this. What someone else does with this, is their personal choice.

Ruski,
Rude and offensive comments on a post sure tell a lot about the personality of a poster. Didn't you get a check for working well with others in grade school?

Was not serious about the mystical field comment.

Web,

I liked your post. The point is that we care about each others wellbeing here on earth as a people and this does not stop us from also caring about what happens to each other in the afterlife too for believers and non-believers.

In my opinion I think maybe God could possibly have worked thur evolution and gave man a soul when God choose to and therein is where God manifested the plan for salvation.
In the story of creation in Genesis, I think readers are confused that God really made the world in 7 days. 7 just represents fullness. 7 is used all over scripture to express this point. The writers telling the story of creation are just getting the point across what God did create all and in its fullness. I am not that bible literate but doesn't the original translation for the name Adam be it from Hebrew or Greek mean "mankind" So the writers could of given names to use in the telling of the story to make it more personal. For instance, we know there was not really an apple, or tree or a garden. These are just symbols. So why couldn't the Genesis writers use make up names for the mankind that God put souls into. Of course this all being the inspired writing of what God wants to convey to us.

To me its not so much important in how we got here, just that we are here in our lifetime travel. But I can also see for the inquiring minds how as a species in regard to the sciences how we came to be.



[This message has been edited by jade (edited 04-24-2003).]

I was just pissed...had a bad day, now please I am sorry, sometimes I just cant keep my shit together...well it happened and I believe we can simply ignore it...

anyway Jade, yeah I heard that catholics dont take bible literally, and they see at most stories as symbols...but many protestan christians do take it literally and in fact believe every world of genesis...

Oh for real.

You believe in the story of Genesis there was a real apple, snake, tree
and garden? And the creation of the world as we know it was made in 7 actual days?

NO, I dont believe it I said many protestan christians do...and me myself I am not a miracle man...

[edit]apperently many of people in my school do believe it, even teachers[/edit]


[This message has been edited by Ruski (edited 04-24-2003).]

why would someone create metaphorical instances in a book that people base their lives on... seems kinda funny to me...

haha.. oh man i love religion... its like a comic book....

"hey.. dont take that literally.. but uhh... do everything else the book says word for word... and if you dont, then you're not a christian, you're <insert christian-like religion alternative here>

"The only difference between me and a madman is that... i'm not mad!" - Salvador Dali

WS: you said something that irritated me..... along the lines of, "love is an emotion that all animals have... well, most mammals at least.."

i have always wondered why man believes that any other animal on the face of the earth is any or much less primative than a Human.... you can't say that any given animal doesn't feel love.... or any other emotion for that matter.. be it mammal, insect, fish... doesn't matter. Without emotions these animals couldn't make concious decisions that help them do basic lively functions... instinct doesn't supply all reactions in life.

i dont care what any scientist says.. ANY living creature has the same basic thought processes, emotions and basic functions as any Human. The fact that we have technology, etc etc.. doesn't make us any less of a primate or any more intelligent than any other living being on earth (or anywhere else for that matter). It is in the way that we carry out our intelligence that leads man to arrogance.

Sloths kick ass \m/ .. w00 for slow moving creatures....

"The only difference between me and a madman is that... i'm not mad!" - Salvador Dali

Sazen, I wanna know if you are christian?

and yeah I pretty much agree with everything you said....

animals always have something to protect themself with...such as from weather and predator

we humans have also an ability, an ability to use environment for our advantage...such as to pick up things and use them...

im an agnostic.

"The only difference between me and a madman is that... i'm not mad!" - Salvador Dali

Sanzen, I don't eat animals because I have always been rather fond of them, but I am a speciesist. Are you seriously telling us that clams experience love or ponder their existence betwixt the crashing of the waves?

Hmmm...that's a real tough question to answer...that's why I sided on what we can presently prove...do all animals feel love? Quite frankly, I do not know.

Now, that may irritate you...so be it. Provide proof...and evidence, and I'll re-think it. Fair enough?

I mean, there are species that don't really seem to care what/how their young/off-spring survives...and even eat them...

Instinct aside, provide real examples of love in, for example, bacteria...or single-cell animals...or species of insects...and many types of reptiles...how about sharks?

It does seem, that love requires some amount of ability to remember...

Well I did read somewhere in a religious article that some mammals do have souls distinct from human souls for the human purpose since we have dominion over them. But don't know too much of this. Of course no way comparable in the sense of the greatness & beauty of which God intends for the human soul of mankind where God dwells.

For instance when I come home from work and I am so deadbeat tired and I sit like a zombie for awhile after I get out of traffic on my sofa.
Here comes my dog and sits on my lap and begs for my attention. She uses her paw to move my hand on to her head for me to pet her or will nozzel under my hand to move it. She feels content when I start to pet her and calms. I, myself love animals and treat them kindly as I believe they are Gods creatures and serve a purpose too. But I no way compare them to humans in that they should be treated like humans.
Like throwing them birthday parties, leaving them in the wills, buying them cemetery plots & treating them like children. Some people do get carried away and think them human and then go treat real humans without dignity.



[This message has been edited by jade (edited 04-25-2003).]

Bugimus.. you substitute such a wrongful thought with a beautiful line...

why would you think they didn't? are we so selfish that we dont want to think that are emotions could be shared by something so simple?

also Bugs, i never said there was something wrong with eating animals because you thought they had emotions..... its part of nature.. survival of the fittest.... but i guess with modern circumstances its not really the fittest so much as the one with the sharpest weapon.... so i guess that philosophy is thrown out the window.

"The only difference between me and a madman is that... i'm not mad!" - Salvador Dali

[This message has been edited by Sanzen (edited 04-25-2003).]

So you still eat animals even though you have enough alternative food sources? I decided for myself that I could no longer justify that in my own life.

What makes me think that clams don't experience love and higher thought? Scientific data. It has *nothing* to do with arrogance whatsoever.

Amen Bugs. Well said.

Ok... so you think you have a higher thought process than a clam? no. i say not. Its the way in which we are ALLOWED to carry out our thoughts is what makes man think they are superior.. when we all know infact that nature is superior in any given situation of man vs nature.

If ants weren't killed and eventually were ALLOWED to evolve over millions of years.. then the world would be highly "intelligent" ants and humans would be scared to creep out from under the rock ... survival of the fittest is what has made man seem superior... when in fact.. if there were dinosaurs now, they would be highly more intelligent than us... because they could destroy us...



"The only difference between me and a madman is that... i'm not mad!" - Salvador Dali

Sanzen, the point is that clams don't even *have* thoughts. There is nothing in their bodies that can accomodate higher thought patterns that you and I are currently having. Get it? This is scientific fact, this is not conjecture.

Now if you are saying that you believe all life forms possess some "spirit" then that is a different matter and something that is much harder to measure, if at all. But please don't expect me to agree that clams are just as sophisticated as a dolphin or a man.

And IF the things you say happened, like ants or dinosaurs being more intelligent than us, well, then I would agree with you. BUT the dinosaurs are exinct and ants yield to our insecticides so maybe we should focus on what is and not what could have been.

pffffffffffttt... clams can too fink stop trying to crush my dreams

"The only difference between me and a madman is that... i'm not mad!" - Salvador Dali

Ok ok ok... sweet dreams then

quote:

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If ants weren't killed and eventually were ALLOWED to evolve over millions of years..

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~blink~

uh....

Ants *have* been allowed to evolve over millions of years...they are a part of one of the oldest surviving orders of animal in the world.

They are highly evolved and have some very specialized abilities that blow away anything humans can do.

But they still don't have the ability to think and reason the way humans do.