Topic awaiting preservation: Are we alone?

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The Conspiracy Against Reality - National Polls reveal that approximately 80 percent of all Americans believe in the phenomena known as UFO's to some degree, and that as many as 2 percent or 1 in 50 believe that they have been targets of 'abduction' by the same in the past

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I figured I would start up something interesting for a change. I was just wondering who all believes in UFO's, or what your general thoughts are. Also, this is a real cool article I thought you may like.


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I'd be very disappointed if we were the only forms of life in such a huge universe.

:::11oh1:::

Hmm...Do I beleive in UFO's. No. Do I beleive in other intelligent (at least to some degree) species that live throughout the galaxy, yes, definatly.

For me there is too much conspiracy theory bullshit and too much government misdirection that just further feeds all the baseless conspiracy theory bullshit to make any real determination of whether or not we have been visited by aliens.

I would not be shocked to find that we have.

I would not be shocked to find that we never have.

The closest I have to a weird experience is I was out in the country at nite where there was just about total darkness except for the stars. I was talking to two people near a campfire when all of the sudden a green ray of light came from the sky and shown like a ray to the earth. It was huge and was of the most brilliant translucent beautiful green that I have ever seen. It lasted a matter of seconds. And I asked those people "Did you see that" and they did. I can't see where that ray of green light could of been man made. It was just so spectacular. Also that weekend in Canyon Lake, New Braunfels, TX it was reported by many that there were sites of UFOs. One being my sister in law that lives on a high hill overlooking a lake in the same area. She saw some kind of craft hoover over a large tree in her back yard and ran to call her husband inside but it took off. She could not get a clear picture of the craft because it was nite and so dark and it was gone in a flash. I have no answers to these or explainations but I know what I saw and I wouldn't consider that my sister-in-law was lying. Then again, it doesn't mean it was UFOs either.



[This message has been edited by jade (edited 10-22-2003).]

Jade are your familiar with Mass Hysteria? I'm not saying your story was untrue because I really wouldn't know. But there have been hundreds and probably up to thousands of people that have made similar claims, and have all turned out to be a fraud. Your story seems interesting enough, but I doubt that it would be relevant to any kind of extra-terrestrial. Your story seems too mediocre to be extra-terrestrial. You make it sound like something Hollywood would portray, which is also very close-minded as the idea of a space craft and little green men has become so cliche over the past 50 years.

I agree with Krets. It would be very close-minded of us to think that we are the only intelligent beings in what we know to be the vast universe. I definitely think there is a strong chance that there are other beings in galaxies far away, possibly more intelligent than we. I don't believe in extra-terrestrials, but that doesn't mean that I believe there are no extra-terrestrials either. To me, it's possible, but irrelevant.

In any case, I certainly doubt that in my life time I'll read/see/encounter anything extra-terrestrial, so I find it all to be irrelevant and I try not to think about it much.


_____________________
Prying open my third eye.

I'm quoting Calvin (from Calvin & Hobbes) here:

"The best proof that intelligent alien life exists is that they haven't contacted us yet"


My own opinion: There might be. I've yet to see them with my own eyes. I think all those conspiracy theories are bullshit, though.

I believe in it like no other person does...no, they are not big green naked freaks flying on frying pans....yes as others life forms, of course I do....somewhere billion light years away there got to be something or even closer....and there will be for sure more....at leats that what I think

Mahjqa, I believe the original quote is this one :

Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
-- Bill Watterson

Personally, I don't think any alien species has visited us. Space travel, even at the speed of the light, is awfully slow, and space is infinite. And do I have to remind you that only one million years ago, our ancestors were fighting against each other with animal bones ? If an alien lifeform visited Earth 10 million years ago (a very short delay in the universe), it would only have seen animals, and not any sign of intelligence. It's been only a few centuries that human beings can really look into space, and report their discoveries to the world. The time scale on which we are judging whether if aliens exist or not is ridiculously small. And I don't think any alien species has visited us in such a short time. Oh, and curiously, it's been only a few centuries as well that people started seeing mysterious UFOs or aliens, like if their former fears (devils, etc...) vanished and were replaced by more interesting and exciting ones...

I don't believe aliens visited us yet, but according to physicians, space is infinite, therefore it is impossible that alien lifeforms don't exist elsewhere. A meeting is a matter of time, and luck.

Not that I would ever shamelessly plug my own site (*cough*), but jade's story reminded me of an entry I wrote in August:

I want to believe

And I'd like to add that I think the very existence of the Asylum proves that there are intelligent (OK, semi-intelligent) alien life forms living on Earth at this very moment...


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Suho: www.liminality.org

I liked that Master Suho. Nice to see you post again. I've missed u.

I believe the probability that other life exists in this universe is pretty good. Though I've never encountered ET life (that I am aware of anyway...) it wouldn't surprise me if we have been visited. The demands of space travel may be extraordinary within our limited understanding of physics, but that isn't to say some other species hasn't figured it out. We're constantly learning new and fascinating things about the universe around us. I read an article earlier this year in Discover Magazine that was saying Einstein may have been wrong about the speed of light. (The article is at work, I'll post an excerpt later maybe...) It wasn't all that long ago that the idea of traveling around the world in less than a day would have been considered absurd. Now we can travel to the moon in three. So, that being said, I can't dismiss visitation based on the vastness of space.

But I do have a couple of questions that I have pondered for some time...
How does the existance of other intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe fit into Christian (and other religious) theology? (I ask the Christian question specifically, because I was raised Christian, but I am interested to hear other viewpoints as well...) God created man in his image, and is creator of the Universe, according to Christian teachings. Does this mean that any intelligent life we find will be like us? Or does Universe really mean "World"? If Christ died on earth to save mankind, does that mean that other intelligent life will not be saved? If other life does exist on other planets, and God is the creator etc... why is this not addressed in the Bible?

I know a lot of these questions are really rhetorical, but I am curious what you may think anyway. Sorry to turn another topic to religion... but I really am curious...

well moon dancer, i think that bible is just a phylosophy book from particular point of view, just like buddism and islam...they all were written by man, regardless by whom they were inspired. People only want to have a truth that suits themselves. I think, alot of religious people desire to know "why" they overquestion themself and then make up answears that sound best for them...they only care about "why", but almost never bother to ask "how"...

since it has been already for couple of thousands years, people stick to those traditions...
but now that we have done so much already, such as explore the galaxies and other planets as well observe behavior of atoms from billions of years away that lead as to possibilities explaining how our galaxy could have started, learn about this huge back matter where everything floats.....sadly many people ignore it....maybe its too complicated for them, because they have more simpler explanation...exemple of genesis chapter....

not to say that bible is unecessary , it gives people value and positive thinking, control. Just like any other religeon...we humans have needs...always desperate for an answear. We have thirts to know beggining and the end. Since religeon provides it, plus in very simple, nice, poetic way, its all people seem to need....

jade: Thank you. It's good to be back, and I'm glad to see you stuck around.

Moon Dancer: Those are some good questions, and I have thought about them myself. Your first question (about God creating man in his image) brings a smile to my face, because I remember a sci-fi film I saw when I was young. I cannot for the life of me remember the title, but it was about an alien girl and and an Earth guy. The girl looked just like a normal human, and one of the guy's friends questioned him about this. The guy answered. "You believe that God created us in his image, right? Well, how many images do you think God has?"

I found it pretty funny at the time, but now I can't figure out if it's deep or just trite. The other questions all mesh together with this, so I won't try to answer them individually (mainly because I really have no idea). I have toyed with the idea that, if there is intelligent life out there, it could be possible that these other worlds have had their own histories, their own Bibles, and their own interaction with God. I have wondered whether perhaps God has not created a number of worlds and interacted with each of them. In fact, when you think about the ridiculous vastness of time, it almost seems silly to think that God has only ever and will only ever create one world. This is just wild speculation, though, and I have no basis for this.


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Suho: www.liminality.org

Suho- That was a really interesting quote. I've never actually thought about it that way, I guess. Be it deep or trite, it still does raise an interesting point. As for wild speculation, that's great! I'm not looking for answers really, just ideas.

One question: what will we define as life? On earth, all organisms are based on DNA. However, DNA is an exceedingly complex molecule. What will we define as life? Something that has DNA?
I find it highly unlikely that they will have DNA!
How else? That they speak?
Only one species on our planet has a true language!
Something that displays computational properties? Computers come to mind (Do not be facetious, you know what I am getting at)

Any ideas?

Wrayal

Go to kimber-ja.demon.co.uk and click on the link to the raytracer!

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"It would indeed be rash to assume that nowhere else in the Universe has Nature repeated the strange experiment which she has performed on the earth" (A. Eddington, 1933)

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and he was a lot smarter than I am ...

Wrayal - At school, may years ago, we had a simple word to define what attributes separate distinguish what is living from what is not - MERRING - Movment, Excretion, Reproduction, Respiration, Irritability, Nutrition and Growth ... crude, but effective.



Bug-free software only exisits in two places
A programmer's mind and a salesman's lips

[This message has been edited by trib (edited 10-28-2003).]

Yeah, I've seen things like that before. BUt surely that's just based on what life we have on earth? Eg - respiration. I agree that everything on earth respires, but for example, animals could get all their substances without taking gasses, or if they did, taking in things other than oxygen. I think those sorts of things are very earth - oriented!

Wrayal

Go to kimber-ja.demon.co.uk and click on the link to the raytracer!

In a 2 hour special that I saw many years on Roswell, they had guys who had clearance to work at the hanger where they had the alien
craft and bodies. They decided to spill the beans on the whole
project and of course would not show their faces on screen.

From what they said the aliens do have a belief in a supreme
higher intelligence. They visit us to learn about us.
According to these guys they are still here and have access to
higher ups in government. They communicate to each other
without words like ESP and have crystals they use to communiate with
other aliens out in space. Per these guys a secret covert part of government let them experiment on humans as per some kind of an agreement. From what I could understand they travel thru their mind power also. Like they can bi-locate and be at two places at once and also invade your mind. So time travel may not be the way they come to us if you are a believer in ETs

[This message has been edited by jade (edited 10-28-2003).]

[This message has been edited by jade (edited 10-28-2003).]

Jade - the agreement (according to the UFO conspiracy people) was based on a trade with our government involving technology for experimentation. They gave us high-tech things like space travel, the high-tech bombers we have, and stuff like that, for letting them experiment on us.

And yes, supposedly they can take over a persons mind and use their body for a while. Only the evil/gray aliens, not the human looking aliens do this, because the human ones have certain laws that forbid it, laws based on free will issues, while the grays are sort of like barbarians. Anyway, supposedly when this happens, the person who is being taken over does not know, and their pupils become huge, filling up the entire part of their eyes.

Now, I don't really know if I believe in all of this or not, I mean who knows. I just find it fascinating that this huge web of interconnected stories has been brought together in the form of a tremendous conspiracy theory which has spread from books in the 50?s, 60?s, and 70?s and now through out the web. So either the power of human creativeness is great, or there really is something that is being kept from us by our government. I mean, keeping in mind the track record of our gov?t, I don?t see why some people (cough?cough?DL) are so quick to dismiss it.

[edit]Fixed the crappy sentence structure and mispellings.[/edit]


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[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 10-28-2003).]

Well, I know...however, I have no evidence to offer you. It is enough for me, that I know.

Well please don't leave us in suspense Web. Give us some details.

And I don't think any alien species has visited us in such a short time. Oh, and curiously, it's been only a few centuries as well that people started seeing mysterious UFOs or aliens


If indeed ETs were out there the masses just didn't know about it
because there was no technology to communicate it until the radio, & TV in the 50s were invented to spread the news. I was looking at the SCI-FI channel awhile back and it was on crop circles. They have been around way before the 18-19 century that history knows of. Before technology was advanced to even try to fool the masses by handmaking them they were out there.

MS, what about all those Egyptian acient drawings that have space
men looking figures and crafts, not to mention acient drawings in caves in South America.

There could also be a possibility there are no ETs, but there are earth bound creatures who are responsible for all. Like maybe some spiritual civilization from the sea or another dimension. Being that the earth is 70 percent water, that could be a higher probability. Our bodies are mostly made up of water too. Since water is the basis for life & for human existance per evolution for some that could be the key. Maybe instead of looking up, we should be looking down. Does this sound too far fetched? Maybe so. Just something to think about.

I have given details of this before, waaay back when...dig for it, maybe you will find it. Bugs knows...he was involved in the thread way back then. I'm not particularly interested in going through it all...as I said, since I can not offer you (nor anyone else) solid, irrefutable evidence (and if I had such, that would be very perilous, indeed!), it is enough that I know.

To put it bluntly, I have seen evidence collected by the US of such...it could be (since it is in the realm of possibility) that the information that I saw was not true...such could be possible. It does occur, such 'mis-information' in tight circles...however, I have no reason to doubt the accuracy, nor the details of the evidence that I have seen. That most people will never have access to such, is clear to me. Therefore, to actually provide hard evience of such, would be to put myself in great danger...something I am loath to do, to be sure. These days, probably near impossible to do...I haven't been active for quite some time...and with security picking up because of 11-9, I'm pretty sure it would be near impossible to do what we did, even from within the system itself these days...

WS: Hey! Long time no see!

Sorry, just got a little excited. Don't mind me...


___________________________
Suho: www.liminality.org

Hey, Master Suho, how's things? I've been around, mostly lurking...my time has been pretty precious for awhile (read: very, very busy!). Just got back from vacation...but that is for another thread, I think...carry on.

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I have given details of this before, waaay back when...dig for it

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I dug, but found nothing...Where's Emp's when you need him.

~runs in and waves and runs out again~

I'm afraid I can't find much - WS will have to tell us what he was refering to - some possibilities:
http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum17/HTML/000528.html
http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum17/HTML/000726.html
http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum17/HTML/000883.html

although in that latter one he did say:

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You also need to be aware of the fact that many of these things have been discussed here before...maybe take a trip through the Archives, with the search function...

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so keep digging.................

Right anyway the debate - I now I am an old pedant but we should really get things clear here:

UFOs - they are flying objects that are unidentified. By their very nature they must exist.

ETH - the extra terrestrial hypothesis - the belief that this objects are are actually alien machines and are probably being piloted by beings not of this world.

So are we alone in the universe? Probably not.

Have the visited us? It would be foolish to give a definitive no but personally I put the idea out on the unlikely end of the probability scale.

Are aliens piloting UFOs? It probably put this one a little further beyong the above.

___________________
Emps

The Emperor dot org

WS: Been on the busy side myself. Took an extended vacation from the Asylum for a while... it's good to be back in the looney bin.


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Suho: www.liminality.org

Hmmm...it would be sad if that thread doesn't exist anymore...it was a while ago...

*shrugs*

Alright...who's been at my pill supply? Ha? Speak up!

*goes off mumbling*

I cannot state it anymore clearly than DL did:

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I would not be shocked to find that we have.

I would not be shocked to find that we never have.

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Until there is proof, I see it 50-50 cut right down the middle.

WS, yes I do remember that thread! You piqued my interest considerably back then. I'm sorry to see it's fallen off the archive. I may have it saved locally on my hard drive... I'll have to look if I find the time.

Suho! I'm really glad to see you around once more! I think a lot of people around here have been busy as of late. I come and go lately myself. So many things just take the time away these days.

. . : slicePuzzle

Bugs: I hear you on that.

Anyway, I'll have to catch you on Q one of these days... got something I want to talk to you about.


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Suho: www.liminality.org

I think ET's are who created us .God and Jesus and the word are all just ET's.No doubt when Jesus comes back we will think we are being invaded by aliens (because we are controlled by the beast)and he will whip are asses and kill all those aligned with the beast (world government)and the rest of us who believe in jesus coming back to whip the beast and the Catholic church (the bitch who rides the beast as prophecied in revelations) will live a thousand years with Jesus rebuilding the earth as heaven on earth but at the end of a thousand years the beast is released and all those sheltered souls will have to make a choice between God and Satan Good and bad ET's then all those who prevail will be made into angels and have Godly power's. It's just a weeding out process who has good enough character to deserve to live forever.See.

danzig694u, that's very entertaining Except for the ET part, it's not too different from a premillennialist view of biblical eschatology.

. . : slicePuzzle