Preserved Topic: The Cube (again)

Hi all,
I know this was discussed here recently, but I've got a couple
questions left over, I'm hoping you can help.

Currently I'm plugging away on a Pentium 233, Win95, reasonable 17" screen.
It's the same box I've had for 3+ years and I reckon it might be time to get a little
more serious about my hardware.

I've made the decision about platform. Mac it seems is the go.
But hardware really just ain't my thing.

So first question......
Apart from looks, what are the fundamental differences between
an entry level Cube and an entry level Power Mac G4?
All I can get from this magazine is "The cube will suit people who don't require
PCI card slots and other features provided by the more
powerful Power Mac G4"

So I flip over to the advert and there the Cube's
advertised with the same everything as the Power Mac,
'cept the Cube runs 50mhz faster which makes it sound more powerful.

Which is the better machine?
(at entry level, not dual processors n stuff)

What are PCI slots? I want to run Photoshop and render Bryce
things quickly. Oh and Later I'll get a CD burner.
Will I need PCI slots?

And Second......
Displays. Seems there's a deal with Mac where they advertise
a price then say in the fine '* Does not include display'. Hello overdraft.
heeh.

There are 2 displays I'm looking at in this mag. One is a 17" Apple Studio
tube type for $995au and the other is the 15" Flat etcha-sketch looking LCD
or CRT type (that belongs to the Cube) for $1995au.
A 1000 bux more for 2 inches less.

Having not ever come face to face with an LCD type display,
I'm wondering what people who have think of them compared to say
a decent tube type monitor? Is the 'amazing clarity' and 'depth of colour'
they boast about true? And more so, cost aside, is it worth going
from a 17" to 15" to get it?

I'm gonna start ringing around this week,
(the closest Mac centre is like 600kms away)
and I'd very much value what people who actually use this
stuff think before going down for a look.

Thanks

I'm running late for work, so this will be somewhat truncated; will try to add more.

My ONLY reservationa bout the cube is expandability: PCI slots are there for adding other stuff that don't have Firewire or USB connections. Like: what if you have SCSII hard drives or scanners or ZIP drives (sounds like in your case no 'cause you wouldn't bring 'em over from the PC, but still - what if ...) G4 towers have slots to put in cards to plug other stuff into, Cube does not.

Cube has capacity for enormous amounts of RAM, so that's not the sort of limitation you face with , say, an iMac.

If you are presently functioning happily with a 17" monitor, I'd go for the 17" CRT (17" is kinda small, but can't argue with the quality of the work you produce on it!) The 15" flat screen is in fact awesome, but the manufacturing cost is high and thus the product cost is high, and though there is a definate "wow" and "cool" factor, it's hard to justify the $$. Plus, I'm still more comfortable acessing graphic work on a CRT tube. But they really have gotten better with LCD - my powerbook looks VERY different as the viewing angle changes; they seem to have largely licked that problem with the new desktop LCDs.

(Another consideration: since Apple is doing really slick things with powered cables and digital connections for displays, I don't know if that is going to limit you to strictly displays with digital connectors. If you can't plug in your favorite Sony or Mitsubisi or laCie or whatever monitor, it could limit your growth when you want to move up to a larger monitor. As I say, I don't know about this point - you should check it out.)

In short, the Cube is an awesome machine, one I would love to have on my desk at home. At work, the Tower G4 is still the choice because I still have numerous things I need SCSII connections for. Gotta just love the new mouse!

Good luck!

Well...I've used both a Mac cube and a G4, and for graphics aplications, I found that the G4 was more stable and provides support f0r much better graphics cards that allow you to see more detail in your images.




Don't make me come down there! - God

if you're set on a mac...

grab a g4 and a 19" crt monitor. don't get an apple monitor, it's just a rip off... instead get a 'pc monitor' and slap it onto that bad-boy.

if you want to tell me how much money you've got to spend on a monitor (in american dollars) i can recommend some good ones.

hardware is my game ;P

cheers.mikey.milker

The cube is also significantly slower than a G4 of the same processor speed because it has a 5400 RPM hard drive instead of as 7200 RPM hard drive. That, combined with less expandability makes the cube a poorer choice for graphics in my opinion. Of course, I'm a PC guy and the fact that you're even considering a mac in this age (there's about 15 times the software available for a PC as there is for a mac) kinda frightens me <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/wink.gif">




It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal your neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.

Tyco's a 'fraidy-cat.

Learn to think different

Maybe accountants need 15 times more software....

That there is much more software available for PC is a fact. That everything I *need* is available for Mac is also a fact.

Of the two facts, all that matters to me is the latter.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Cube doesn't have a standard SVGA port so you're forced to use an Apple monitor. At least that's what I got out of reading the specs.

BTW, I've used both Macs and PCs a lot, owned both, done graphics on both. Having 15x more software available is cool if you need to have all the latest games (not the best latest game, Halo, because that'll b out for Mac), or if you have to take work home from some arcane pc app at work.

I like the hardware options on the PC, but I just can't stand being under Microsoft's thumb on the OS issue. Granted, Windows has better memory management and the desktop interface is probably a little better, but when something goes wrong it's sooooo much harder to track down the problem.

The Mac offers quality-controlled hardware, better support, and all the major graphics appz that you need.

What puts it over the top though? Well, for one thing, _4_ modifier keys instead of 3 (command, option, control, shift), and MacOSX is open source built on a linux kernel for a truly modern Operating System that will make Windows 2000 look like QDOS. Inevitably Microsoft will see it's greatness and take all the best ideas for Win 2001 or whatever, but will they go open source? I think not.

oopz, didn't mean to start a platform war.

3DSMax doesn't have a Mac version. That makes the decision for me. *shrug*

Wish I could afford a Mac as a second machine; I do like them. The cost of the machine, plus Mac versions of all my software, though ...

yeah...well, I wish that Mac and PC would just get over themselves and take the best features from both of there platforms, and force what's left of Microsoft to write an OS for there new comp, a MeC or a Pac. That way, there would never be these problems of stable Macs not supporting Games, and unstable PCs not being good to run graphics progs on.

That's my rant for the day...I've got the Flu, so I'm going back to bed.




Don't make me come down there! - God

OK; I'm a mac guy, so I can comment on this one, heh. The CUBE is just SO frigging neat looking, I want to own one! But I probably won't buy one. The G4 tower case is simply one of the best computer cases I have *ever* owned, you can simply flip the side down while it's running, all of the guts are right there, fitting new memory or hard drives is almost way tooo simple. It's easy to put under the desk if I need to, but it's pretty enough to sit on top, too! The cube is pretty and cool too, but is it worth any extra money? For my next machine I'm hoping to acquire one of the new 1200Mhz Xtreme Macs, now *there* is some serious hardware!

For the monitor, unless you're a CEO-type who never really uses your computer for anything other than looking cool, don't waste your money on a flat screen. (Unless you're talking the Apple Studio flat screen, super wide, oooh.) 15" screens will drive you *crazy*, they are just *so* small! The bigger CRT monitors will eat your desk space for lunch, but that big picture is so nice. I run a 19" momitor with my resolution set really coarse, sometimes only at 832 x 624, you get to see all of the pixels, and the colors are bright bright bright, it's very sweet.

Your pal, -doc-



[This message has been edited by DocOzone (edited 06-09-2000).]

Uh macs. Get a PC real mans hardware.

They did make the the apple rainbow colored for a reason, they are designed for pretty boys.

I ain't gonna touch that last post, but....

I think overall, boxes are pretty much the same, regardless of what OS they use.
Both Macs and PCs are capable of exactly the same graphics quality, the only variance is in the CPU/BUS speed that the system board and add-on cards are capable of.
We all know that quality comes from the graphics application, not the OS/platform.

I've seen people turn absolutly rabid at being told that PCs or Macs suck.....it's insane, and so are they at times

There's talk of 2 GHz Pentium 4 processors now <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/rolleyes.gif">

No holding technology back, eh?

Just hold the opponants back from each other <img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/biggrin.gif">


Cheers,

C.C.

who cares what computer you use... you're still a shitty artist.

[to no one in particular, but you might as well assume it was meant for YOU]

cheers.mikey.milker

Wow, look thanks very much folks,
that?s just what I wanted to know.

>Learn to think different

Yes! think different, exactly...

This is a big scary step, what ever I buy,
it's gonna have to do for a long time.
It'll be worth more than anything we own.

I want to enjoy using it. relate with it.
Be inspired from using it. The no fan, little glass ashtray, sitting there with enough power to govern a small country,
yah I can see that! Inspiration in person.

But you're right Stevo, things might happen
later that will require me to build on, or at least I should have the option.
So the tower is looking more & more likely.

I'd never given the HDD speed a thought either! Does it really affect performance that much? I hate to think what mines spinning at now. Good greef.
Good stuff to hit the sales staff with ....

>That there is much more software available for PC is a fact.
>That everything I *need* is available for Mac is also a fact.
>Of the two facts, all that matters to me is the latter.

Yes for me too. I've settled on what I want to do, and that requires only a few programmes.
Games aren?t a consideration, this grafix-to-web game is way more fun, never ends, and has more cheats.

Virtual PC provides an answer to the few things I use that are PC dependent.

>grab a g4 and a 19" crt monitor. don't get an apple monitor, it's just a rip off...
>instead get a 'PC monitor' and slap it onto that bad-boy.

Oh. Is that possible ? heeh. I guess it is.
Shoot well I hadn't even thought of that. So I could get a nice Sony Trinitron
or something and...woah. I could look around for 2nd hand 21"+ jobbies in that case.

I'll have about $5500au to play with. (the Aussie dollar hovers around 60 US cents)

The smaller Cube comes in at $3495, the entry level Tower at $3195 and
there's a Tower G4-with-More special on for an even $4000.
(more ram, more storage, a zip drive and more scsi) to give an idea.

So either way it leaves a bit for a monitor.
By all means Mikey recommendations are most welcome.

Like Skaarjj said - Detail! thas what I'd Like. Detail and accurate colour.

I?m using a Mag Innovision (in 1024, 24 bit) now. Its okay, kinda blurry.
I just had it repaired (at a third of the original cost heh) The next time it dies, it'll be by gunshot.

- Xtreme. Holy cow. Sacred Bovine even!
I've held one of these....no wait that was a microphone....Now that thing really defines cool hahah. *That* out cools the Cube! yup.

I'm totally sure tho that even when they are released here I wont be able to afford one heeheh.

Just once more, I'd like to thank you all for your thoughts and time. This is a big investment, in what is really just a fasination. You guys are out there doing it and that alone is worth a lot more than an hour on the phone with an over eager sales rep.

Thanks again.

Cheers.

--weadah--

you lucky skunk.. honestly i wish i could get a mac right now, but i'm pretty set on another pc.

then again, i'm building a new computer at the rate of once a year, so next year i can get a mac, haha.

okay, anyways... about monitors. i'll figure you're getting the tower g4-with-more... which leaves you with $1500au ($900us) to spend on a beautiful monitor.

iiYama makes some sweet monitors, they use the same technology has the high-end sony trinitron monitors (meaning, the monitors have a perfectly flat screen and are just gorgeous to look at all day long). their 19" monitor (visionmaster pro 450) is $600us, but i'd spring for their 22" (visionmaster pro 510) which is $1000us... below is the link for a nice review on their 22" monitor.

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1097


of course, there are always sony monitors... the 21" sony cpd-g500 for $1100us is a pretty decent monitor. i can't find the information right now, but i don't think the specs are as great as the iiyama 22". so it's got a smaller size and costs more, why bother? because it's a tiny monitor that takes up no space on your desk.

right now i'm having trouble deciding if i want to get a top-end sony 22" flat-screen for 1600$, or run a dual monitor setup with 2 iiyama 19" monitors for 400$ less... i dunno, i really would like a 22" monitor.

did that help at all? haha...

cheers.mikey.milker

Hell yes its helped alot.
Infact that's sold it I think. A G4 Tower and a great big screen.
oooooh baby. Cheers muchly =)

Dual monitors huh. Is that like running Photoshop on 1 and
something else on the other ? or Photoshop on both?

Hey I don't have stacks of dough or anything either heh.
I quit smoking at christmas time. And again in March. My wife's
been putting the money aside as a demonstration of
how much those suckers cost, its amazed me!
A fair chunk of this new box is money that used to go up in smoke.

I did a small website (for free) and the guys brother
liked it enuf to offer money to do one for his business.
So there's a grand I didnt have. Last week I was planting trees,
in a couple weeks I'm picking onions....

I've been sorta working on a new machine all year.

Thanks again.

Dual monitors! Ooh, that *is* a great idea, I haven't had a setup like that in a couple of years, and with a Mac it's just *so* easy! You'll need a second graphic card, but then you just have to plug it in. Picture your desktop as it is right now sprawled across two monitors. I used to run all my pallettes (maximized) in one monitor, and nothing but the image in the other monitor, sweet! Hmm, I'm expecting two new pieces of hardware this week, a new PIII/600 for W2K and a cheaper celeron 500 for running Linux, plus two new monitors, a nifty new 21" (for Malin), I'll take here 19" for my mac, then a new 17" nokia matching the one I have now. Maybe once I set up the linux box I'll take the monitor, it won't really be needed there anyway, heh. Then all I need is another graphics card and I can run the dual monitor setup, woo-hoo!

My life. Always better with many computers.
More = better. :-)

Your pal, -doc-

I have two stations where I work. One is a G4 with a 21 inch laCie monitor. The other set up drives our scanners, an ancient clunking Power Computing box with a 17 inch and a 15 inch monitor. Obviously the G4 is a joy to use from a speed standpoint. But as far as displays go, the 17+15 is actually nicer to work with. No matter how big the display, the application's interface gets in the way of anything. I'm always hitting tab to dismiss the palettes so I can see the picture! With two smaller monitors I keep all the interface junk segregated. The 15 inch display only runs at 8 bit, but for most palettes that's not a limitation. And the cost of a decent 17 inch, a crummy 15 inch and a second video card might still be cheaper than a quality 21 inch.

'Course two monitors eat desk space like crazy. One of the reasons we went with a single monitor in the studio is that that computer is on a movable desk, and there just wasn't room for two displays. But it's food for thought. Especially for those of us using palette intensive apps: Illustrator, PShop, DreamWeaver, whatever else - even when you have learned all the keyboard shortcuts you can, it's still nice to have the palettes there, but it's particularly nice when they can be off to the side.

OK, I'm just going to ask a stupid question and get it over with, because I've never used dual monitors and never actually seen them used. Is there some keyboard shortcut you need to hit to switch to the other monitor, or do you just slide the mouse over and the cursor appears magically in the other monitor as if it slid from the right side of one into the left side of the other?

I've always thought about getting a second monitor for my pallettes, but I think having to hit a shortcut to switch back and forth would annoy me.

nope, mouse jumps from screen to screen by dragging to the edge... at least that's how i've seen it.

there are a few different ways for dual monitors to output..

there's a multi-display option where your desktop is scretched to fill both monitors... you can even drag windows right over the gap between the two monitors and each half will show on a different monitor.

then you got a duplication feature. all it does is redisplay the same exact image on the two monitors, but this has a few uses... since you have a tv-output, you can hook up a tv to the video card and watch big games of quake3/whatevergame or dvds on the tv. lots of other uses for this feature, just use your imagination.

you've got a 'zoom' feature also.. it sets up the second monitor to zoom on certain parts of the first monitor's display when you hit certain keys. this feature is kinda lame, or maybe i just can't think why i'd really use it...

that's all i can think of now. but since this thread has started, i've decided to go with 2 19" instead of 1 21".

cheers.mikey.milker

Wow mikey, it was just a joke. Liek the other guy said its art no matter what platform it was designed in

huh? i'm lost... i was talking about, uhm.. monitors?

cheers.mikey.milker

Mikey! It's still art, *even* if you use two monitors! <g>

(I didn't get that one either, seemed a post or two behind, heh.)

I remember when I had two monitors, the "monitors" control panel used to have a picture of two boxes representing the two screens, you could drag them around to get the virtual screens to match up differently. I had one monitor up high, and the other down low on the desk, but the menus still dragged straight across, it was just so *cool*!

I've got a friend in Minnesota, a japanese game designer guy, and he has a setup with *three* monitors! A big 21" in the middle, and two smaller 19" ones angled in from the side. This is for doing his *work* mind you, and has nothing to do with the fact that he's hacked his version of this internet based flight wargame to display three different views at once, simulating a full 120 degree view from the cockpit. Heh heh.

Your pal, -doc-

I think it's getting pretty close to teh time when ?Microsoft won't be the Operating system It's time to take over, Its time to evolve, REwrite it just like Ozones front page. Teach the kids, Plant the seeds so they know I'm teach recovering addicts, and teens how to fix PC's and Macs On orange COunty California, Computers for Kids. I'm teaching them that once they master this they must rewrite it and fix it because it aint right.
linuxx....
evolverefusetorevolt

Oh yeah! I was just going through specs, picking out my new machine for work. (My new company just got the first round of funding, so we can now buy real computers, yay!) I opted for a dual-processor G4/500, with 512MB (using only two slots, I want the option to upgrade to a gig!) of RAM, and a nice 21" monitor. (Although maybe I'll change that to two 19"'ers, hmm.) The Xtreme machine at 1200Mhz sounds great, but it's delayed till the end of the year, I may have to shoot for that for my next computer *after* this. Buying new computers is fun. Using other folks money is even more fun! <g>

Your pal, -doc-

doc: that sounds like a sweet machine.. sitting in a new computer lab on campus today with 20 g4s really got me thinking. oh well, i'm pretty happy with PCs anyways, but would you mind maybe passing me one of those 'lowly' g4s when you finally get your xtreme machines? haha.. =D

cheers.mikey.milker

2 Monitors...okay.
3 ? That's just borderline greedy! haha
Just kidding.

Another dumbass question if I can?
The PC monitors...do they have to have any special Mac adaptor ?

*The words 'Mac'&'Tower' have been banned for use at our place. So what If I used them
82 times in a sentence. oooo It's getting so close!

Weadah:

It's something you should check. When I bought the laCie it came with a baggie of adapters and I didn't need any of them for the G4, but you ought to make sure. Nothing hurts more than getting the computer and monitor and finding you need to wait another 4 days to get the adapter to use the monitor.

<img border=0 align=absmiddle src="http://www.ozones.com/forum/frown.gif">

Just what I was hoping to avoid heh.
Cheers again.

all g4s now have the same type of monitor input that PCs also use.. in other words, you can buy any monitor you want on the market now and it'll work (unless it's a digital flat screen.. i think those have different plugs).

cheers.mikey.milker

I have one thing to add about the flat monitor. If it's one of those monitors that is like 3 inches thick you have to be careful. My uncle works for a computer company, and he said that if the monitor is not active matrix the display can be very shal we say shitty? Just tought i'd let you know, because i know from experience that there's nothing worse then trying to return a computer item, because you don't "like" it.

Please don't get fustrated with me! Always keep in mind that i'm 'Slow to learn, and quick to forget'

Food for thought: You can get a good monitor for cheap if you buy the ones they use for display or as returns for factory direct orders( i.e. someone orders a 21" from hitachi and says, hrm, I have a 16" deep desk and this is 28" deep, I need something smaller and sends it back). A 21" monitor is BIG, mine takes up the entire top of my desk and took some adjusting to get into the shelf. Of course 2 of anything is going to take up more space. Also if you build your own computer, you can save a bundle with a pc. If you need extras don't forget to check out places like dealmac.com. Oh yeah you could go to http://www.xtrem.com/ and get 1.2 gigahz microphone. I've been a mac person for a while and I built my first PC a couple months ago, and it was pretty fun, and cheap. Especially cheap since it was a linux box and all the software is free. Anyhow good luck...