Preserved Topic: MS Front Page?

Now that I have your attention!

I have been doing a website for a club I belong to. Some people in the club have their own web servers for their company that they have volunteered to host it. I just spoke to the person I assume was their SysAdmin, and he said all my stuff had to be done in Microsoft Front Page, so as not to screw up his servers. Is this a normal occurrence?

I've never used Front Page, but he says I should be able to just import what I have done into Front Page and be good to go. I'm really not liking this, but I don't know if I have any choice because it's free for the club.

Does anybody have any hints, tips, or suggestions for me?

As usual, all help is appreciated

- Resolutions, Of All My Fruitless Searches -

quit the club... you can't be hanging out with those FP users...

<chant>
Frontpage is the devil
frontpage is bad
kill frontpage
quit the club
</chant>

Spam is yummy
~babamba

Some servers are configured to work with frontpage, and if you upload other stuff then it messes it up, somehow. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but here's my advice. Take a complicated DHTML page that you know would never work in front page, something with complicated tables that need to be aligned perfectly to the pixel, and try to put it on the server via frontpage (however it's done, i'm sure they'd tell you how or whatever). If it is still fully functional, then don't worry about it - but if it messes up at all, ditch this, let them know how much FP sucks.

If they're forcing you to *edit* the page in front page at all, forget it.

ritual homicide- that's you're answer right there.

Serial Killings..
(1011001010 --get it? HAHA)

*finds himself laughing by himself*

geek humor. deal.



"You don't have to be crazy to work here, but it helps." --Anonymous
ICQ: 67751342

All I can say is that I avoid FP like the plague. My advice to you would be to do the same.

Now let me explain why. I think it comes down to a matter of philosophy. FrontPage actually does wonderful things and it actually works just like it is supposed to. The problem is that it assumes you either cannot, or are unwilling, to do certain things for yourself and so it handles it for you. It's kind of like whether you buy the sports car of your dreams as a manual or automatic. I prefer the manual because I want that control and that closer relationship with the technology. An automatic would go just as fast but I could eat an ice cream cone while driving.

So if you want more control, which allows for more uniqueness of design, then stay away from this FP crap. If you want to pay less attention to your design and enjoy that ice cream cone at the same time... I guess I can't stop you but I really wish you wouldn't.

I agree with you Bugs. It's not that I want to use Front Page, the people with the server are telling me I have to. I have the whole web site already hand coded and ready to go. They're telling me I have to run it through Front Page to their servers. I don't even have Front Page on my machine, and I'm not happy about being told I have to use it. But, the people are offering to host the site for free on their servers, so I don't know if there is much I can do about it. The guy told me I should be able to just import the stuff I have done already into Front Page, and that will make it OK for their servers. I don't like it, but I don't have much choice.

Oh well...


- Resolutions, Of All My Fruitless Searches -

Well, as a SysAdmin, as well as a hosting provider, that guy is on crack.

While the server might support FrontPage, uploading non-FP files won't cause a problem other than FP might not index them. That's not an issue. If doing so causes problems on his server, then his server isn't properly configured.

Pat Richard
A pixel is worth a thousand words.
http://www.gurusnetwork.com
ICQ 23113317

Hmm... so all you need from this guy is FTP capability. You can ask him to explain to you why you *must* use FP because as Pugzly points out, it makes no sense. If he can't explain it then you can just tell him you would like FTP access and you can upload your site like normal people Getting free hosting is something that doesn't come everyday so I can understand not wanting to pass this up. I would be very interested in hearing what he has to say by way of explanation. Please keep us informed.

my boyfriend is a sysadmin for an isp that does web hosting. he always complains about how frontpage extensions break their server at work.

i run iis5 (which has fp extensions) on this machine to test scripts locally and it seems to run just fine without me doing work in frontpage. people [on our local network] can ftp in and everything.

------
this rose has a thorn...

I will add that we have a bunch of customers that use FP on our servers, and they don't usually have problems that aren't their fault. FP is actually fairly stable, but as many will point out here, it generates a LOT of fat code. But for site maintenance, it is hard to beat for the simplicity and the price.

I always like to keep a copy of FP on each of our machines, because it's real nice to get a quick view of a site. It's easier sometimes to open a page in FP just to see how things are laid out (like complex tables).

But for coding, I'd stick with something like Max's program or Ultraedit. FP just makes the pages way to messy.

Pat Richard
A pixel is worth a thousand words.
http://www.gurusnetwork.com
ICQ 23113317

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Don't forget about the backdoor that the M$ people put into the FP extention.

I'll say again, if you run a test, and the page goes through without being changed *at all* by frontpage, like, the source remains perfectly intact, then it's not something you need to worry about, as long as you're not using front page for any actual editing.

I've heard of this problem with frontpage before, I have access to one server that uses frontpage server extensions, and i'm told that if I even FTP a command to the top level directory, it'll mess it up and they'll have to reset it and reupload or something. So I'm restricted to a subdirectory on it. I'm not sure how this works, but I don't think it's *complete* BS.

Thanks for all the input guys!

Bugs:
I did tell this guy that I normally just ftp my stuff to the server, why couldn't I just do it that way? I told him the site was already made, and online.

He said: ahhhemmm *clearing throat to sound like him*

This is a production atmosphere here, I can't just let you ftp what you want. What if something you upload messes up the server? You need Front Page for the extentions.

The way he said it with a condesending laugh, you know, the one that says ~ oh great, this guy thinks he knows what he's talking about ~ caused me to end the conversation as soon as possible.

I'm actually trying to figure out how to tell the people in the club that I want them to pay for hosting so I don't have to deal with these people. But, as you can imagine, there are club polotics, and everything has to be made to sound nice-nice. Plus the fact that it's never easy to explain to people why they should pay, when it's already been offered free.

I'll let you guys know what happens when the time comes.

Thanks again

- Resolutions, Of All My Fruitless Searches -

He's dumb. There is a reason he thinks that though. If someone uses frontpage to make their site, and it has any of the mail forms or any other things that need FP extensions, and then FTPs up their site, it can break their site. He's either paranoid or ignorant, and thinking it could break the whole server. If he's that worried he could always just not install FP extensions for your site. Either way, do you really want your website hosted on a windows machine?

No, I don't want to use it at all, but it's a club members server that they have offered the free use of for the clubs web site. I also don't want to have to deal with this guy every time I need something. Or worse, have him put limits on my uploads and page testing or something idiotic like that.

I am doing my best to talk the club into paying for hosting, but have to do it without stepping on toes or hurting any feelings.

Have to wait and see.

- Resolutions, Of All My Fruitless Searches -

butcher, wherever you go in life there's gonna be people playing by different rules, different games even. If you want to play with them, play their games by their rules and you'll get along. Maybe you can show them a new game later, but when in Rome it's only good manners to do as the Romans do. It rarely hurts to learn a new game either.

Sounds like the guy is not as knowledgeable as he should be and he doesn't want to risk anything on his company's intranet/internet site. This is understandable right? Doubtful you'll change his mind anyway. All this FP bashing is just a sidetrack, like Slime said, send them a copy of the site and let them import it into FP and publish it, FP2000 won't jack with your code if you tell it not to... I think, heh... =)

Jason

What you say is true JK. But you misunderstood the reason for my starting this thread.

It was never intended by me to be a bash Front Page thread, (although I had a pretty good idea that it would happen). I only wanted to get opinions on whether Front Page would mess up a site that was already hand coded, and if anyone had any suggestions about how to go about it.

Also, I truely have no compunction about learning a new game, if I did, I wouldn't spend so much time here. My main problem with this whole thing was that the romans were kinda rude, and I didn't think what they were telling me rang true. Not to mention that I have put quite a bit of my own time into this project, and have much more to do going forward. To give my time for free, and then have this project turn into something I wish I hadn't started because of one man and his server, kinda takes the fun out of it all.

It's not like I'm going to take my marbles and go home if I don't get to play by my own rules, but can you blame a guy for trying?



- Resolutions, Of All My Fruitless Searches -

Point the guy to this thread.

Maybe, just maybe, something will sink in.

there's a good deal of contradictory information in this thread as well, what parts should sink in?

Jason

I've hand coded stuff that ended up on FP sites. Just make sure that you tell FP not to munge your code. It should work ok.

Pat Richard
A pixel is worth a thousand words.
http://www.gurusnetwork.com
ICQ 23113317

May I suggest an alternative? Depending on what kind of club this is that you're talking about, you may be able to finagle some free hosting from another hosting company. Say, if you're part of a non-profit organization that helps the community in some way.

Someone might be willing to host your site free of charge, or at the very least, in exchange for adding a link to the host's site.

Having done that, just go to your club and say, "Here, I've found someone else for free who doesn't want to restrict the way we build our site..."

And if your club isn't something philanthropic, just figure out a way to make it sound that way.

Just a thought...