Preserved Topic: Closing Threads

Is there a FAQ on closing threads?
Does it take a certain majority of posters?
Can it be done on a whim? At someone's self-righteous discretion?
Is it done to supress freedom of speech?

I'm thinking of the pirated software thread. Is the subject
so taboo that it must censored immediately?.
Or is it more likely that many of the "non-professional" posters here have never
paid the thousands or more it would have cost them to buy
3d studio max, PS, Dreamweaver, Win XP, and all the other goodies etc. and... they
would rather not see the subject on the boards? out of sight, out of mind?

piracy is illegal. if you are caught you will have to face
the consequences. however, not allowing opinions on the subject is
kind of radical, no?

there's a significant difference between posting links on where
to find warez versus having a discussion on the consequences or merits
of using software illegally. it's not as if this site was the upload grounds
for crackz, serialz, and warez. nobody can accuse of promoting warez or
storing them...only of arguing.
what's next? we can't criticize Gates because he'll sue? and he could, easily!

one of the most well known PC (and controversial) columnists,
John Dvorak, use to write about piracy....not pro piracy..but
downplaying the negatives in a more balanced fashion..the guy
never got fired for that....where do you draw the line?

let's keep on open mind? no?
k, since i used the taboo word "pirated" you can
shut me up too i suppose

disclaimer: i don't condone breaking the law, i don't condone
software piracy nor violations of IP (intellectual property)
i do believe in the free exchange of ideas with certain exceptions:
i don't tolerate pedophiles, terrorists, wife beaters, and hate mongerers.
and i don't care for people who use purple backgrounds with green text.



[This message has been edited by ShootingStar (edited 06-07-2002).]

I think the reason that thread was closed was because people were freely talking about pirated software they had on their systems, and nobody wants to get the Doc in trouble if something should come of that. Personally, I think it's a bit iffy, but I understand the reasoning.

Such questions can be answered by em@il. Closing
threads is the last thing I do on "my" board...but
sometimes it is needed because about the main theme
weren't spoken anymore...

cu
~Xdreamer.ch~
-------------------------------
to stupid for transparent sigs

here read this http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1500&a=21399,00.asp

If you've never heard of PC magazine they are very respected
in North America and are part of an organization called ZD publishing

Funny how this guy can write what he wants without fear of losing
his job.

Suho:
Last week I ran a stop sign on my street.
This is considered illegal in Canada.
I also photocopied an article at work
and gave someone a copy.
Yesterday, I downloaded some MP3s.

Oh, shit. Doc is now responsible for my actions!

get my point?

You're right, ShootingStar. We should definitely close that article.

[And yes, I see you're point, even though you managed to drape it in a significant amount of sarcasm . Like I said, I think it's a bit iffy, but that's the way people feel about it here. Maybe the closer of that thread will stop by and explain a little better.]

[This message has been edited by Suho1004 (edited 06-07-2002).]

The sarcasm was not directed at you Suho. If you felt it was,
you have my sincere apologies. The sarcasm was directed
as to what i feel is a silly issue.

Let's look at the other side of the coin? If we are allowed
to debate piracy then it gives the adults a chance to
let the kids know what the consequences of their acts could
be - it's more about right and wrong given we all know
that's it's 100% illegal. or it could let the kids explain
to the adults why they are full of it.

either way we exchange IDEAS not WAREZ.
obviously this is the Doc's call and i will respect it his
call as i am a guest here only ( a highly sedated
straight-jacketed, padded-cell confined guest)

ShootingStar you are missing the point, even though I know where you are coming from. The reason I suggested closing the thread was because of Warez...the actual discussion of pirating softwar is ok, but admiting and boasting of warez is a tricky subject, and can lead to serious reprecussions...and because we don't want to get the Doc into trouble here, we avoid warez...and porn.

To discuss the matter is one thing...for example 'I am for pirated software because...' or 'I am against pirated software because...' and is totally legitimate, even though people may agree or disagree with the standpoints in question, the thread will hardly be closed based on such a discussion. However, warez is a different matter.

We must remember, that this is Doc's board, and that we are guests here. These are the only rules that Doc has given us. We would do well to abide by them.

If you will, you can start a new thread about pirated software...but keep in mind the above mentioned things...and the same goes for those posting to the thread, as well. Let's keep it clean, boys and girls. We are guests here, after all.

quote:

---

The sarcasm was not directed at you Suho. If you felt it was,
you have my sincere apologies. The sarcasm was directed
as to what i feel is a silly issue.

---

OK, mister, who are you and what have you done with ShootingStar?!

Hehe... that's what the little was for, so you would know that I wasn't taking offense. Or at least that was how it was supposed to work. That's one of the problems with this sort of communication. Anyway, I knew exactly what you were getting at.

So don't worry, and please don't ever sincerely apologize to me again. I almost had a heart attack.

Yah, I was tempted to re-open that thread myself. Discussing the ethical concerns about piracy and advocating it, these are two different things IMHO. Still, I know why that thread was closed, and it was only with good intentions, ie: keeping me out of potential trouble! Since we had several folks who openly admitted using pirated software, I suppose there was always the possibility that the SPA could decide to make legal waves, demanding names, etc... (Sure, it's unlikely, but it *could* happen.)

We've always been very strict concerning piracy here, and will close down in a second any thread that tries to promote a warez site, or share passwords, that kind of thing. Threads where people come in and *ask* for serial numbers; well, they can just be fun for all of us, as we lecture and ridicule the ones who did the asking!

My stance on warez and piracy is (hopefully) pretty clear, I don't like it, I don't advocate it, and don't recommend it. However, we also have to realize the place it has in our world today, and simply "not discussing" it won't make it go away. I'll be honest here, my first copy of Photoshop (2.0, woo! Time passes so fast... ;-) was a warez copy. I never really gave it much thought at the time, a friend gave it to me on a floppy disk and I played with it. After playing with it for a few months, I found someone who wanted me to do a job for money, using it! I did the job and used the money to buy Photoshop 3.0, which had just been released. Since then I take it as a point of pride to buy the programs I use for my work, and have been known to give potential employers major shit if it turns out that they've pirated all of their working programs.

So many people want to learn this program, and so many can't afford it. What should be done? Some software companies started offering outdated versions of their softwares to people at low or no cost, should Adobe consider this policy too? I wish they would, it would make my life easier, as I know beyond a doubt that most people start using Photoshop with warez copies. We've been quite successful educating people here on this topic, and lots of people here actually bought the app for themselves once they landed their first jobs, and I think that is a good thing?. :-)

So! I don't approve of theft, but I am of two minds about this, it seems that nearly every professional photoshopper I know started out with a copy that was less than legal. The question in my mind is this, "Have these pirate versions of Photoshop been good for Adobe in the long run, or no?" Both sides of this argument have good justifications. My personal stance is that small-time individual piracy can be good for Adobe, while institutional "corporate" piracy is evil and should be punished as severely as possible. I'd love to see Adobe lead the way here, although the mechanics of allowing one while squashing the other seem insurmountable.

I think it would be good for us to discuss this topic further, but I'll start by laying out a few "ground rules". Yes, we know that you may be using a pirated version, but try to avoid admitting it publically, OK? If you must spill your guts, do try to avoid incriminating yourself too deeply. ;-) As always, avoid pointing to any warez sites, if this thread gets tainted with such references it will be shut down. Let's open this discussion up again, this time restricting ourselves to a more philosophical debate on the pro and con sides of the piracy issue, OK?

Your pal, -doc-

by the way... this debate has been had many times before...

try running down to the archives and searching for 'piracy'


Harmonizing new illusions...
ICQ: 67751342

I thought it was custom to have this debate at least once a month, just judging by how many times its come up since I arrived.

I agree with the point about kids not too bad, corporations very bad.
We should keep in mind, also, that there's a big
difference between a counterfeiting operation
that produces $millions of dollars of bootleg
Microsoft or Adobe software (in eastern europe
or certain asian countries where the authorities turn
the other way - or even in MS's home turf) and
the 14 year old who steals a pirated windows..the fact
that he is using windows should be punishment alone!

in my last job the owner was using pirated software.
i told him that this was bad. he said he didn't care.
i told him it put the company at risk. he said the RCMP weren't coming.
I told him all it took was one disgruntled ex-employee to spill the beans...
within 2 weeks we had removed all pirated software and replaced
it with the real legal deal....what you do at home is your business, using
pirated software at work is dumb, it could get you fired, it could land
your company in deep s**t.

I hope neither WS or TP mind but I did take the liberty and opened up my Pirated Software thread. As I've said in the thread it is not about discussing where we can find different versions of the software but how people feel about using pirated copies and the justifications for it.

I just read the Doc's opinion on the matter now and it seems to be cool with him so for the time being I would like the thread to remain open until someone really crosses the link.

-Jestah
Cell 277

Yup. It's become a tradition. Even Doc's reply is cut-n-paste....

just kiddin'!

I'm sure the thread 'How dare you close my thread' is coming, too. It is also a tradition here....I should know, I've been guilty of participating in a few...

So let's start the thread again...but let's be thoughtful about what we post...

so now get back to the original thread and leave this one be